Summer Transfer Window

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Seems to be linked with every team at this level.

Would perhaps be a little strange considering his defensive partner from last year is already ours and with plenty of scope for improvement.

 

Goode was linked with Middlesbrough and QPR last week.

 

[Glosrover]

5 hours ago, Madon said:

Elliott Bennett has put on Instagram that he's moving house after 5 years and a new chapter awaits.... 

Potentially interesting?

he's becoming a bendictine monk and joining a monastery ..............

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

5 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

He’s confirmed he’s staying. ?

Oh yeah he was never going anywhere, TM wouldn't have it! 

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Here on Rovers Chat discussing different keepers stats and names. Good watch. https://twitter.com/rovers_chat/status/1290318159992553483?s=20

It mentions on there about his saves ratio and other stats. Look impressive the video you posted just unsure we can pay that fee currently. Was impressive with his quick footwork and not like Walton's footwork which is awful IMO. 

Yes supposedly has 4 or 5 championship teams chasing him so we will see. 

 

I can see Man City willing to loan us 1 or 2 players and helping us pay the wages due to the way play Adarabioyo and the playing time we given him. Wouldn't be surprise if we loan 1 or 2 players from Man City

Well considering he lives in the Midlands, it isn't big news really

Rotherham have loaned a keeper each of the last 2 season with Rodak in the 18/19 season who is now Fulham number 1 and in the 19/20 season Daniel Iversen. So its worked for them. 

I suggested Iversen and Muric last week as possible options if we do go down the loan route. 

Loans for me are used ideally to attain players that are of a quality that you couldnt afford. For us, Adarabioyo and Reed would have been had he been used right. You look at Brewster and Gallagher at Swansea, Ben White and Harrison at Leeds, they can just give you that push. Its when you start padding out your squad with them or plugging gaps that it can sometimes go a bit wrong.

Mentioned it the other day but goalkeeper is a position where reliability and consistency is critical. If its a young keeper you at least want to know that the mistakes they are making, they will learn from. If they are not staying long anyway, it doesnt make a difference.

You look this season, a few teams went down the road of loaning younger, "highly rated" goalkeepers:

- Huddersfield got Grabara on loan from Liverpool. He made too many mistakes and when I saw them play with him in goal he looked a bag of nerves. They then signed Lossl on loan in January, a player they had before, and dropped him.

- Forest signed Muric, a very highly rated young keeper from City. Had a shaky start, before you know it, they sign Samba who takes over and Muric is never seen again. 

- We had a talented young goalkeeper. He made mistakes, but the consolation was that at least, assuming he learnt from them, he was ours to develop. We sold him for cheap where he has progressed, got in an inferior keeper of the same age who has made mistake after mistake and we have never had anyone to even compete with him so he had to play every game and it cost us.

- Reading siged Virgina, a highly rated keeper from Everton with no senior experience. Had a shocking start, they had to act, they dropped him and signed Rafael before sending Virginia back in January.

In the interest of fairness, its not a totally fruitless avenue. Swansea signed Woodman who was very good.

But I am certainly dead against the idea of loaning in a kid to be in net.

[HowieFive0]

6 hours ago, Madon said:

Elliott Bennett has put on Instagram that he's moving position after 5 years and a new chapter awaits.... 

Potential GK?

Corrected ..

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Loans for me are used ideally to attain players that are of a quality that you couldnt afford. For us, Adarabioyo and Reed would have been had he been used right. You look at Brewster and Gallagher at Swansea, Ben White and Harrison at Leeds, they can just give you that push. Its when you start padding out your squad with them or plugging gaps that it can sometimes go a bit wrong.

Mentioned it the other day but goalkeeper is a position where reliability and consistency is critical. If its a young keeper you at least want to know that the mistakes they are making, they will learn from. If they are not staying long anyway, it doesnt make a difference.

You look this season, a few teams went down the road of loaning younger, "highly rated" goalkeepers:

Rotherham had 2 loan keepers over the last 2 seasons and they both done well including Rodak being number 1 at Fulham or Iversen this season in balance aswell as Swansea keeper Woodman. So its works for some clubs. 

Walton was wrong move and he was poor signing. 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

But I am certainly dead against the idea of loaning in a kid to be in net.

Depends on the quality and talent of the keeper surely before judging the player? 

Iversen had 2 season of playing league football and represented his country at all age levels and been senior squad so much be talent there. Plus he signed 5 and half years contract in February 2020 at Leicester City. So if he wasn't talent enough the surely Leicester wouldn't have give him such a long term contract. 

Muric shouldn't be write off on the back of couple of games at Forest. Given that Man City would have been happy with the way we used Adarabioyo last season, I would imagine that they would do another favourable loan or 2 this season. 

Phillips would be a very good signing here. is it viable I don't know sadly cos I don't know what our budget is or the fee they want

[WacoRover]

7 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

What makes you say they should out of interest?

For me, no matter how highly rated he is. That is a huge risk to bring in a goalkeeper with no senior experience from another club. We would be reliant on it working out and if it didnt, wed likely only have a semi capable number 2 (like this seaso having to stick with Walton) as an alternative.

Goalkeeper is the worst place to get a kid on loan because obviously he will be more prone to mistakes, which of course cost us and then give back his parent club a better player. With Raya we had a goalkeeper who made mistakes but he was ours at least to develop.

With attacking players its a bit less risky because whilst it is of course not good if they dont work out. You have a series of attacking options at the club and even if they arent the best they probably arent directly costing you goals against like a rookie goalkeeper would.

It’s a gamble, but almost everything is. The fact Liverpool has kept him that long is a plus, as is his youth. Phillips, I’d say, would be safer.

I would guess and say it’s doubtful we could afford him as a backup, either. 

Edited August 3, 2020 by WacoRover

[JacknOry]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

 

You seem to be using the data for select things as matter of fact that Wharton is a better player at the moment as Goode. Ive not seen either player this season (I presume you are the same) so to just use data is incredibly flawed. The fact that Goode is out on his own in terms of Northamptons player of the season suggests that the fans who watch him every week think that he was their best player. 

My basis for potentially having Wharton around is not with any certainty on his ability. I just think we have one competent centre back, then we have an injury prone and not very good Derrick Williams, and an out of favour and past it Mulgrew. We also have Carter who lookee well off at this moment. The main difference is that any centre back coming in will need to slot into the first team, the potential expectation of Wharton would be to be a squad player. Ultimately his advantage is that he is already ours as you say.

Im not doing it to be contrarion either. I share your opinion that signing a League 2 player to fill the void that we need as a partner for Lenihan is a big risk. Also the fee will be beyond us. But you are using these stats as total fact of the matter im absence of watching them regularly. Its not a fact, underlined and in bold that Wharton is better.

I also think that Ben Heneghan didnt really pull up trees at Blackpool. 

The lad i suggested the other day from Bristol City who was also on loan at Blackpool impressed far more than Heneghan did - their fans say Heneghen is extremely slow.

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, tomphil said:

Perhaps one showed more leadership qualities than the other at Northampton.

In any case i'd expect a straight swap will be the offer from the Blackburn end of things.

Goode is their captain - so yup.

[Paul Mani]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rotherham had 2 loan keepers over the last 2 seasons and they both done well including Rodak being number 1 at Fulham or Iversen this season in balance aswell as Swansea keeper Woodman. So its works for some clubs. 

Walton was wrong move and he was poor signing. 

Depends on the quality and talent of the keeper surely before judging the player? 

Iversen had 2 season of playing league football and represented his country at all age levels and been senior squad so much be talent there. Plus he signed 5 and half years contract in February 2020 at Leicester City. So if he wasn't talent enough the surely Leicester wouldn't have give him such a long term contract. 

Muric shouldn't be write off on the back of couple of games at Forest. Given that Man City would have been happy with the way we used Adarabioyo last season, I would imagine that they would do another favourable loan or 2 this season. 

Phillips would be a very good signing here. is it viable I don't know sadly cos I don't know what our budget is or the fee they want

I reckon the City link has great potential. They obv have a great relationship with our lot and I agree that they’ll be happy with Tosin. Played a lot of games in his best position.

[roversfan99]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rotherham had 2 loan keepers over the last 2 seasons and they both done well including Rodak being number 1 at Fulham or Iversen this season in balance aswell as Swansea keeper Woodman. So its works for some clubs. 

Walton was wrong move and he was poor signing. 

Depends on the quality and talent of the keeper surely before judging the player? 

Iversen had 2 season of playing league football and represented his country at all age levels and been senior squad so much be talent there. Plus he signed 5 and half years contract in February 2020 at Leicester City. So if he wasn't talent enough the surely Leicester wouldn't have give him such a long term contract. 

Muric shouldn't be write off on the back of couple of games at Forest. Given that Man City would have been happy with the way we used Adarabioyo last season, I would imagine that they would do another favourable loan or 2 this season. 

Phillips would be a very good signing here. is it viable I don't know sadly cos I don't know what our budget is or the fee they want

The problem is that goalkeeper is the most precarious position in the team. Sign an inconsistent and raw but talented young striker, winger or attacking midfielder that doesnt hit the ground running, its in an area if the pitch where you dont need to play him every week, you are likely to have many options in those areas so you can dip him in and out and even if he isnt good enough to even contribute occasionally, it isnt the end of the word.

The further back you go, the more risky it can be. Get a centre back like Adarabioyo or White, then brilliant. Sign one that is nervy and making mistakes, you likely have 3 or 4 centre backs so you can take him out of the side. Less scope for rotation granted, so more likely to be a wasted loan, but still not awful.

If its a keeper, the likelihood is that its under some sort of guarantee that he will be number 1. And even if not, its rare to have a competent and quality number 2 waiting in the wings.

From the examples that I gave that didnt work out that you havent really acknowledged, Forest and Reading went out and signed goalkeepers from abroad that are amongst the top keepers in the division after getting Muric and Virginia, meaning that whilst any loan fee and wages were a waste of money, they didnt have to persist with keepers that obviously have talent but were not ready for Championship football. Huddersfield had to persist with Grabara until January, obviously not to their benefit, until they could desperately bring back Lossl. We saw ourselves what happens when we brought in and thus relied on a young goalkeeper who turned out not to be up to it. With no competent back up, we had to stick with him making mistakes.

I dont know where this sudden obsession with Iversen has come from, he isnt a name that I have seen elsewhere, but ultimately he was playing in League 1 which is as we know not of the same standard. And I have never doubted that Iversen or indeed any of these young goalkeepers have ability, of course they do. I dont know how much of Rotherham you get to see but I cant say that I have seen much of him, so I am not rubbishing him individually. My point is more that in terms of the different cycles of different positions, goalkeepers mature and peak later than any other position. Goalkeepers with minimal first team experience will likely be most error prone at the start of their career, and these players have years and years before they peak. We could do without a raw keeper making mistakes that ultimately form part of a learning process to the benefit of the players parent club.

I also do acknowledge that there are a few exceptions to the rule despite the point I am trying and perhaps failing to get across. Woodman is one example, Henderson was another. 

Do you not agree at all with my sentiments? That goalkeeper is possibly the worst position to sign an untested kid on loan? Would you prefer more experience in a goalkeeping position ideally if at all possible, or at least if it is a younger goalkeeper, one on a long term deal that we can develop to our benefit, as was the case with Raya? Or would you actively prefer a young loanee?

Same logic to your post about the Liverpool keeper @WacoRover

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by roversfan99

[Stuart]

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

What have they got against Wharton here i wonder ?  Is he too local for the little cartels liking or something ?

Shares an agent with Conor Mahoney and Sam Hart (and Hayden Carter)

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/omni-sports-ltd/beraterfirma/berater/4434

[Paul Mani]

6 hours ago, tomphil said:

What have they got against Wharton here i wonder ?  Is he too local for the little cartels liking or something ?

The main issue, is that he’s crap. Comes back every year. Every year they’re filled with hope. Then they realise he isn’t quite good enough...

[Paul Mani]

Etheridge available but not cheap...£25k pw and Cardiff want to free up the wages.

Marshall at Wigan potentially available on a free.

 

[tomphil]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

The main issue, is that he’s crap. Comes back every year. Every year they’re filled with hope. Then they realise he isn’t quite good enough...

Bell's crap but he gets a new contract, Samuel was crap but got numerous chances, Smallwood crap at this level gets to sit on his arse on full pay for a season. 

This lad hasn't even had a chance as back up.

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

The main issue, is that he’s crap. Comes back every year. Every year they’re filled with hope. Then they realise he isn’t quite good enough...

Is he crap? He comes back every year and is farmed out again on loan, where he keeps getting promotions.

This season, he has got another promotion, his club desperate to sign him up again in League 1 and has really impressed from the sound of it.

I dont necessarily know either way whether he will be good enough or not, but as 3rd or 4th choice centre back, considering that we have Williams, who is League 1 standard, and Carter, who looks nowhere near up to it, at this point in his career.

Seems incredibly premature to suggest that hes crap and they have written him off. Why do they keep loaning him out rather than just letting him go permanently if "they" have decided already that he isnt up to scratch.

Even if they have previously decided that he isnt good enough, surely his performances this season are in his favour?

[Paul Mani]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Bell's crap but he gets a new contract, Samuel was crap but got numerous chances, Smallwood crap at this level gets to sit on his arse on full pay for a season. 

This lad hasn't even had a chance as back up.

Fake news, Bell didn’t get a new contract, they triggered a year on his current one because they haven’t found a lb (said so at fans forum), Samuel had one contract and basically hasn’t played for us for two years, fit or not and Smallwood completely frozen out too for 18 months...

Theyre having Wharton watched most weeks. We’re massively short of CB’s as you know. But he’s just not seen as the answer.

[JHRover]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Fake news, Bell didn’t get a new contract, they triggered a year on his current one because they haven’t found a lb (said so at fans forum)

Wait, so they admitted giving Bell another year because they hadn't found anyone else?

Wow. That's some transfer policy. 

[Mattyblue]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Wait, so they admitted giving Bell another year because they hadn't found anyone else?

Wow. That's some transfer policy. 

And a real confidence booster for Bell.

’We’ve looked for someone else, can’t find anyone... so you may as well have another year’

We really mean business...

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mani]

Just now, JHRover said:

Wait, so they admitted giving Bell another year because they hadn't found anyone else?

Wow. That's some transfer policy. 

Basically...”we’ve triggered the year yes. Why wouldn’t we? We don’t have cover in that position as it is”

[tomphil]

6 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Fake news, Bell didn’t get a new contract, they triggered a year on his current one because they haven’t found a lb (said so at fans forum), Samuel had one contract and basically hasn’t played for us for two years, fit or not and Smallwood completely frozen out too for 18 months...

Theyre having Wharton watched most weeks. We’re massively short of CB’s as you know. But he’s just not seen as the answer.

You're going off on a tangent again and missing the point. Non of them up to the job but numerous chances aside from Smallwood who was told he didn't have one anymore but didn't have to leave either.

We've needed a pool of defenders for years and we now have a lad of our own who's proven he can hack it a lge or two below. Ideal for a cheap 3rd or 4th choice i'd say. Mowbray to his credit is well known to give people chances sometimes way beyond what he should, he's also been good to the youth.

This one just looks a bit odd taking all that into account. I'd just like to see what he can do, unless of course they are planning on signing a couple of good ones that push Williams further down the pecking order and Mulgrew off the books.

Edited August 3, 2020 by tomphil

[Mercer]

22 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

The main issue, is that he’s crap. Comes back every year. Every year they’re filled with hope. Then they realise he isn’t quite good enough...

IMO, as are Walton, Bennett, Bell, Williams, Smallwood, Johnson, Samuel etc and then we have the really expensive cr@p in Brerton and Gallagher.  

I am not at all convinced by Wharton but it's time for Mowbray to either sh1t or get off the pot and give the lad a chance or two or three!!!  Surely, surely with the experience he got out on loan he can be no worse than Carter.  In fact I'd put money on Wharton, over Carter,  being able to earn a decent crust out of football.

IMO, Mowbray only played Travis when he was desperate for numbers and had precious few other options and look what happened!

  

Edited August 3, 2020 by Mercer

[Paul Mani]

Just now, tomphil said:

You're going off on a tangent again and missing the point. Non of them up to the job but numerous chances aside from Smallwood who was told he didn't have one anymore but didn't have to leave either.

We've needed a pool of defenders for years and we now have a lad of our own who's proven he can hack it a lge or two below. Ideal for a cheap 3rd or 4th choice i'd say. Mowbray to his credit is well known to give people chances sometimes way beyond what he should, he's also been good to the youth.

This one just looks a bit odd taking all that into account.

More of a tangent than you making comparisons between young homegrown players and seasoned professionals? ?

The top and bottom of it is that there’s really nothing to see. The most annoying thing about Wharton is why keep giving him a new deal? 

[Paul Mani]

Just now, Mercer said:

IMO, as are Walton, Bennett, Bell, Williams, Smallwood, Johnson, Samuel etc and then we have the really expensive cr@p in Brerton and Gallagher.  

I am not at all convinced by Wharton but it's time for Mowbray to either sh1t or get off the pot and give the lad a chance or two or three!!!  Surely, surely with the experience he got out on loan he can be no worse than Carter.  In fact I'd put money on Wharton, over Carter,  being able to earn a decent crust out of football.

IMO, Mowbray only played Travis when he was desperate for numbers and had precious few other options and look what happened!

  

Game of opinions. The manager obviously doesn’t think some of those are crap and that Wharton is...? 

[roversfan99]

Exactly, not consistent with a club sure that a player isnt good enough. Maybe a season gaining plaudits might be the platform he needs here to push at least past a young lad who appeared out of his depth at this stage when thrown in.