Summer Transfer Window

[alex l]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Do stop talking rubbish. 

Personally I think Gallagher is absolutely useless but whether I'm right or wrong he only scored 4 goals this season which is completely unacceptable by any yardstick and whether or not he was in his preferred position centrally or utilised more from a wider position.

Is 4 goals an acceptable return for a forward? of course not. But is it comparable to other forwards in the same price bracket? Yes. This isnt my opinion on how good or not Gallagher is, but an illustration that £5m doesnt get you the goals some here seem to think it should. Take it to an extreme: if every £4-6m forward in the championship next season scores a maximum of 5 goals, then some will say they've all been rubbish, but the other way to see it is that's all that you get for a £5m forward these days. 

For every Dack or Armstrong, there'll be misses, Brereton and Gallagher if you like. Its always been this way - Grabbi and Davies? Even Kalanic?

[Ewood Ace]

32 minutes ago, alex l said:

I'll spell it out. £5m isnt that much these days for a forward, it far from guarantees 10 goals, let alone 15. If the Prem examples dont suit, try these for perspective:

Glatzel at Cardiff - 7 league goals £5.4m, Wells at Bristol 3 goals £4m, Zohore at West Brom 3 league goals, £8m.

Gallagher spent half the season out of position, but is in line with these. The expectations of some on here are far too high. 

Wells actually scored 5 goals at Bristol City, he only signed for them in January and ended as the season as the Championship's 5th highest scorer. So I'd say £4 Million for him was a decent bit of business. As for West Brom they got promoted so their recruitment can't have been to bad. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[OssyLad]

Anyone take Kieran Gibbs? West Brom after letting him go 

[alex l]

I'd be tempted to give Barry Gibb a go at leftback, the way ours have played at times. Would expect Keiran Gibbs would need to be willing to accept a big pay cut for us to get anywhere near signing him, but worth a 12 month contract. 

[Wegerleswiggle]

3 minutes ago, OssyLad said:

Anyone take Kieran Gibbs? West Brom after letting him go 

Wages are astronomical

[roversfan99]

I read that Gibbs is on Premiee League wages so cant see that at all. Plus he is really injury prone.

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, alex l said:

I'll spell it out. £5m isnt that much these days for a forward, it far from guarantees 10 goals, let alone 15. If the Prem examples dont suit, try these for perspective:

Glatzel at Cardiff - 7 league goals £5.4m, Wells at Bristol 3 goals £4m, Zohore at West Brom 3 league goals, £8m.

Gallagher spent half the season out of position, but is in line with these. The expectations of some on here are far too high. 

Hilarious.

SG and BB have proven (thus far) to be awful signings. I dont care if other clubs might have made bad signings too. We signed two expensive flops in a row. So, we are to expect that 7 million buys you 1 or 2 goals a season from a striker? You are acting like this is the going rate.

We could of course flip it around and mention all the bargains/good signings that clubs have made in the Championship in recent years. Mbuena at brentofrd, 5 mil and 20 + goals, Watkins at the same club cost a mil or two and is now on the cusp of a 20 mil transfer. Pukki and Dack off the top of my head. Sure there are plenty more but cant be assed to look. 

[alex l]

6 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Hilarious.

SG and BB have proven (thus far) to be awful signings. I dont care if other clubs might have made bad signings too. We signed two expensive flops in a row. So, we are to expect that 7 million buys you 1 or 2 goals a season from a striker? You are acting like this is the going rate.

We could of course flip it around and mention all the bargains/good signings that clubs have made in the Championship in recent years. Mbuena at brentofrd, 5 mil and 20 + goals, Watkins at the same club cost a mil or two and is now on the cusp of a 20 mil transfer. Pukki and Dack off the top of my head. Sure there are plenty more but cant be assed to look. 

No I am looking at it with context. Of course Brentford are envied - but theyre clearly an exception, otherwise everyone would be doing what they do. Do i wish BB and SG scored more? Of course. But Im not going to slate them and pretty much write them off because they havent scored the goals that the Brentford forwards have. As for the good signings we've made - the praise for them is far from equal to the bile on here for the signings people arent happy with. 

[Atko's Engine]

Does anyone know much about Mike van der Hoorn, who's just been released by Swansea?

He's a 27 y/o CB, signed from Ajax 4 years ago; been a regular for them in the last 2 seasons besides a spell out last season with a knee injury. Came back to start in their play off semis.

Seems a good age, and will probably have to accept a wage cut. Not sure why Swansea aren't renewing his deal though.

Edit: Mike Adrianus Wilhelmus van der Hoorn - what's not to like about a guy with a name like that?!

Edited August 5, 2020 by Atko's Engine
What a name!

[Fraserkirky]

New striker name:

Tarem Moffi plays for KV Kortrijk in Belgium. Absolute unit of a boy, only 21. Been rumoured to Rangers with a 4.5m price tag, which is probably a touch too much. Would imagine he will be on the move this summer, and we definitely should be looking at DG and DS.

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Does anyone know much about Mike van der Hoorn, who's just been released by Swansea?

He's a 27 y/o CB, signed from Ajax 4 years ago; been a regular for them in the last 2 seasons besides a spell out last season with a knee injury. Came back to start in their play off semis.

Seems a good age, and will probably have to accept a wage cut. Not sure why Swansea aren't renewing his deal though.

 

Looks like he's universally loved by Swansea fans, just had a quick look on twitter and can't find anything remotely negative about him, which is a rarity for that absolute cesspit! 

Sounds like he's rated as a player and a bloke, but reading between the lines it sounds as though he's hoping for better than the Championship.

Having said that, I thought the same about Daniel Ayala, and all seems to have gone quiet on that score. 

[JacknOry]

6 minutes ago, alex l said:

No I am looking at it with context. Of course Brentford are envied - but theyre clearly an exception, otherwise everyone would be doing what they do. Do i wish BB and SG scored more? Of course. But Im not going to slate them and pretty much write them off because they havent scored the goals that the Brentford forwards have. As for the good signings we've made - the praise for them is far from equal to the bile on here for the signings people arent happy with. 

 

There are clearly numerous others. Wells, who you tried to use as an example and Bamford are two players bought in the same bracket as SG and BB who have scored goals. Both signings have sofar proved to be a waste of money...even Samual got similar numbers.

 

Unfotunately, good signings will attract praise and bad signings will attract the opposite. That's just the way it is. Not the player's fault  of course but the manager that deemed it right to spend such money. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, alex l said:

I dont debate their quality or their legacy. Youre the one whose comment implied Gallagher isnt a real footballer. 

I don't think I'm the only one on here. Are you his agent ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Such a flimsy defence of a signing, that other teams have wasted money. Obviously they will have done. No one is saying that it is impossible to not make poor signings but equally it doesnt justify doing so.

You say Gallagher played out of position but that only further warrants criticism on Mowbrays point for signing him.

He has been a poor signing. Brereton has been a really poor signing. Equally, Dack and Armstrong have been very good signings, you dont see people saying "yeah but other teams have found bargains too" do you?

The guy has mentioned those examples of clubs buying expensive strikers who haven't set the world on fire, that's fair comment. However we appear to be the only club that have managed to make the same mistake twice !

[roversfan99]

44 minutes ago, alex l said:

No I am looking at it with context. Of course Brentford are envied - but theyre clearly an exception, otherwise everyone would be doing what they do. Do i wish BB and SG scored more? Of course. But Im not going to slate them and pretty much write them off because they havent scored the goals that the Brentford forwards have. As for the good signings we've made - the praise for them is far from equal to the bile on here for the signings people arent happy with. 

The reason that there is far less discussion about Dack and now Armstrong is not this massive objective to spread "bile." Everyone is in agreement that Dack was a brilliant signing, same now with Armstrong. With the other 2, some such as yourself seemingly are not willing to criticise them, which is fair enough, but that creates debate because there are contrasting opinions and viewpoints. Whereas with the first 2, everyone agrees so there isnt really any discussion to be had.

You can describe it as "slating" them to add an overdramatic touch but we are on a messageboard. The signings deserve criticism because they were signings for large money and has both looked really poor. Theres also a confusion from the manager on how to use them. And then the fact that we always seem to be just off really competing for the top 6, which adds to the frustration when the majority of our budget since promotion has been wasted.

Was signing good players a piece of cake even with 12m for Mowbray? Of course not. Have other teams made poor signings too? Yes. But ultimately part of Mowbrays job is to sign good players and when he makes 2 expensive mistakes, he will be called out for it. You cherry picked 3 examples. Wells is a proven goalscorer at this level and got 5 of his 18 league goals in his half season there. Ultimately the manager lost his job soon after mind you. Glatzel has started to score now he is settling, but again Warnock lost his job early in the season. Zohore was poor but had Mowbray got us promoted, the criticism of the 2 strikers would very much quieten down! What about as others have mentioned, Watkins, Karlan Grant, Pukki etc.

You say write them off, we can only judge on what weve seen. If they both start banging in the goals, something neither has promised thus far, then everyone will be happy.

 

Edited August 5, 2020 by roversfan99

[Ewood Ace]

53 minutes ago, alex l said:

 Of course. But Im not going to slate them and pretty much write them off because they havent scored the goals that the Brentford forwards have.

They haven't got near to scoring the goals that Barnsley and Luton's forwards have, let alone Brentford.

Edited August 5, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[Mike E]

As a thought experiment, I swapped the amounts paid for these players in accordance with their Rovers performances/goal returns:

Dack £7m

Armstrong £5m

Gallagher £1.75m

Brereton £250k

Frankly, Gally still looks like a waste out of those 4 imo.

[Paul Mani]

8 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

Let's hear it for Venky's.  Hip hip Hooray

Call em whatever we like. They’re still ploughing £7-8m a season in where we have so called ‘supporters’ who still can’t bring themselves to pay for a ticket.

Amazing the amount of people who slaughter Venkys for apparently not spending whilst cadging comp tickets every week! ???

[roversfan99]

Just now, Paul Mani said:

Call em whatever we like. They’re still ploughing £7-8m a season in where we have so called ‘supporters’ who still can’t bring themselves to pay for a ticket.

Amazing the amount of people who slaughter Venkys for apparently not spending whilst cadging comp tickets every week! ???

Its totally disingenous to say "theyre still ploughing £7-8m a season in" without reference to what happened before that. And once that is considered, such a "good deed" loses any credence. 

For a Rovers supporter to dismiss anyone who doesnt attend as not a supporter whilst being thankful to owners that have allowed our club to go through the gutter, be rinsed by agents, keep Kean for so long, then appoint Coyle a few years ago who steered us to an inevitable relegation, all the while being totally absent and disinterested far, far away, but one who havent totally pulled the plug, as if thats something to be grateful for. Its the old metaphor of being thankful that the guy who shot you took you to the hospital!

To be content that they are still here simply out of necessity I can somewhat stomach. To be vocally supportive and thankful to them and slagging off hurt supporters as collateral damage is unfathomable.

[Atko's Engine]

55 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

it sounds as though he's hoping for better than the Championship

Maybe he's looking to return home; I doubt he's likely to get a Prem move having looked at his stats on wiki. He does seem to tick many of our boxes and appears the sort we should be looking at, being a free agent.

[Paul Mani]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its totally disingenous to say "theyre still ploughing £7-8m a season in" without reference to what happened before that. And once that is considered, such a "good deed" loses any credence. 

For a Rovers supporter to dismiss anyone who doesnt attend as not a supporter whilst being thankful to owners that have allowed our club to go through the gutter, be rinsed by agents, keep Kean for so long, then appoint Coyle a few years ago who steered us to an inevitable relegation, all the while being totally absent and disinterested far, far away, but one who havent totally pulled the plug, as if thats something to be grateful for. Its the old metaphor of being thankful that the guy who shot you took you to the hospital!

To be content that they are still here simply out of necessity I can somewhat stomach. To be vocally supportive and thankful to them and slagging off hurt supporters as collateral damage is unfathomable.

No one is beIng vocally supportive of them. But the FACT of the matter is that they do still put £7-8m (MILLION) of their own money into the club every year in spite of no obvious longstanding love for our club whilst some “Supporters” sit at home, refusing do the primary job of being a supporter - to support their club by putting their hand in their pockets to buy a ticket. In spite of them having the means and ability to do go to the match.

Often caveat *”I’m not lining Venkys pockets” - You’re not pal, they’re picking up the clubs debt every year and if we’d all turn up, pay for a ticket then our ability to trade players would be increased via income and the ffp system.

The irony of this is breathtaking. 

Edited August 5, 2020 by Paul Mani

[Crimpshrine]

18 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

Call em whatever we like. They’re still ploughing £7-8m a season in where we have so called ‘supporters’ who still can’t bring themselves to pay for a ticket.

Amazing the amount of people who slaughter Venkys for apparently not spending whilst cadging comp tickets every week! ???

How do I get free tickets?  I'd love to know. Thanks

I never accuse Venky's of not spending but I do accuse them of lacking any real interest in the club or the fans.

[Admiral Nelsen]

9 minutes ago, Mike E said:

As a thought experiment, I swapped the amounts paid for these players in accordance with their Rovers performances/goal returns:

Dack £7m

Armstrong £5m

Gallagher £1.75m

Brereton £250k

Frankly, Gally still looks like a waste out of those 4 imo.

This is a really interesting way of approaching it. My guess is that had we spent that amount on him, most fans would either be willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for next year, or more likely criticise TM for not using him properly (which may or may not be valid anyway, irrespective of his price tag). You're definitely right that the other three would represent better value for money though.

As a general point, I do think that some critics of the manager can be a little blase about the Dack and Armstrong captures, who I think are Hughes-level bargains, whilst not holding back when pointing out how profligate we've been when it comes to Brereton and Gallagher. Seems to me that if we were evaluating the transfer dealings of the Souness era, you'd have to offset the brilliant signings with the Grabbis, Fergusons and Unsals. Only fair that we do the same with Mowbray too.

[JacknOry]

11 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

No one is beIng vocally supportive of them. But the FACT of the matter is that they do still put £7-8m (MILLION) of their own money into the club every year in spite of no obvious longstanding love for our club whilst some “Supporters” sit at home, refusing do the primary job of being a supporter - to support their club by putting their hand in their pockets to buy a ticket. In spite of them having the means and ability to do go to the match.

Often caveat *”I’m not lining Venkys pockets” - You’re not pal, they’re picking up the clubs debt every year and if we’d all turn up, pay for a ticket then our ability to trade players would be increased via income and the ffp system.

The irony of this is breathtaking. 

Primary job - heard it all now.

[Admiral Nelsen]

13 minutes ago, Atko's Engine said:

Maybe he's looking to return home; I doubt he's likely to get a Prem move having looked at his stats on wiki. He does seem to tick many of our boxes and appears the sort we should be looking at, being a free agent.

If the rumours of us having a semi-decent budget are true, then perhaps it could be a possibility. Reading between the lines it seems as though Swansea are going through some belt-tightening this summer, and given they have to replace their outgoing loan stars maybe he's going because they can't afford him.

That would beg the question if we are in any better a situation, but if we are his lack of transfer fee would make him an interesting option.