Summer Transfer Window

[Ruaney]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

When Mowbray didn't offer Danny Graham a new contract he said that he thought it was the best move for all parties, difficult to let almost guaranteed goals go, and that he wouldn't want to be a bit-part player for us.

I'm therefore slightly concerned to hear that there are no plans to attempt to replace him. What are the alternatives if we need goals or experience on the pitch in the last 20 minutes?

 

Maybe he plans on using BB or SG in their 'natural' position? They have to do better playing up top, they're not going to score any goals playing out of position, we have proof of that. If he puts them up top and they don't get us the goals then hopefully it's Mowbray who is in the firing line. He has to put his neck on the line here! On the other hand, Armstrong up top will provide us with the goals. Graham didn't particularly offer us goals last season but his presence and hold up play will be missed. SG HAS to step in to that role.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, JHRover said:

When Mowbray didn't offer Danny Graham a new contract he said that he thought it was the best move for all parties, difficult to let almost guaranteed goals go, and that he wouldn't want to be a bit-part player for us.

I'm therefore slightly concerned to hear that there are no plans to attempt to replace him. What are the alternatives if we need goals or experience on the pitch in the last 20 minutes?

 

He got 4 goals last season, shouldn't be that difficult to replace. Do you still think we need to replace Smallwood and Samuel as well? Lol 

As for options if we need experience, well hopefully Downing signs, but ya, you're against re-signing him , aren't you? 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[JHRover]

6 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Give Jack Vale and Daniel Butterworth a chance to prove they are good enough instead of bringing in a bit part player

Aren't we going for promotion this season? Sounds a bit of a gamble to me. Give them a chance to prove they are good enough. I'd rather ensure we have a side that we KNOW is good enough. You do know that Butterworth has been injured for the last year?

[Prelude]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

Even playing wide, he doesn't play as a traditional winger.

He still gets into the box a lot and should be getting chances to shoot/finish.

As Tyrone says, when do you see him go for goal from outside the box, like Armstrong does?

He is a different type of player to Arma though. Would like to see Ben have 5 games in a row as a centre forward if he is not playing well and not scoring and assisting then drop him.

He is clearly lacking in confidence from not scoring but since lockdown he has bulked up, is stronger, his hold up play has improved and is more confident. It was a shame he missed the penalty at Fleetwood a year ago I dont think he would have even had the confidence to take it. Whilst it was not a great penalty, it was a good safe and could have just as easily have gone in. 

 

[unleaded]

Williams being linked to other clubs ..  looks like he’s fallen out with TM too 

Mulgrew & Now Williams... not that I mind .... Defenders are Going ... 

[Richard Oakley]

23 minutes ago, Ruaney said:

Maybe he plans on using BB or SG in their 'natural' position? They have to do better playing up top, they're not going to score any goals playing out of position, we have proof of that. If he puts them up top and they don't get us the goals then hopefully it's Mowbray who is in the firing line. He has to put his neck on the line here! On the other hand, Armstrong up top will provide us with the goals. Graham didn't particularly offer us goals last season but his presence and hold up play will be missed. SG HAS to step in to that role.

Brereton didn't have a natural position at Forest. He played CF in his first year and deeper in his second. Playing 1 or 2 up front means we don't really need a fifth striker, which Brereton is. In a 3-4-1-2, because Travis and Evans are a 2, not part of a three, Armstrong and Gallagher have to be the two up front, with Brereton in behind. Neither Rothwell nor Holtby has established himself as Dack's cover and Brereton does have a beard of the correct colour.Every report I read on Buckley says to me that he needs to bulk up and work on his upper body strength. Davenport? I had to check the team sheets to see that he played against Fleetwood.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Richard Oakley

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

Aren't we going for promotion this season? Sounds a bit of a gamble to me. Give them a chance to prove they are good enough. I'd rather ensure we have a side that we KNOW is good enough. You do know that Butterworth has been injured for the last year?

Of Course I know Butterworth was injured. Why would you think I wouldn't know. 

But we have academy and will needed to be using it. We have talent players in academy so we need to bring through more. 

Jack Vale is going to be good player for us if we bring him through properly

[RoversClitheroe]

Just now, unleaded said:

Williams being linked to other clubs ..  looks like he’s fallen out with TM too 

Mulgrew & Now Williams... not that I mind .... Defenders are Going ... 

Which other clubs?

I saw in Jan that MLS clubs were linked but thought those rumours had gone.

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, unleaded said:

Williams being linked to other clubs ..  looks like he’s fallen out with TM too 

Mulgrew & Now Williams... not that I mind .... Defenders are Going ... 

Thats was mention at the weekend by Sharpe that both are going. 

What fallen out? 

Which clubs are being linked to Williams?

[RoversClitheroe]

7 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Aren't we going for promotion this season? Sounds a bit of a gamble to me. Give them a chance to prove they are good enough. I'd rather ensure we have a side that we KNOW is good enough. You do know that Butterworth has been injured for the last year?

The gamble we take weekly is playing players constantly out of position.

Signing unproven players (Brereton) 

I'm of the personal belief and from what others tell me, that Butterworth and Vale are miles better than Brereton.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I haven't read or seen anything about Williams leaving, why are people saying that? 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I haven't read or seen anything about Williams leaving, why are people saying that? 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

 

That's irrelevant, if funny. He was injured most of last season and played Saturday. 

So there is zero evidence he is leaving? 

[Ruaney]

11 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Brereton didn't have a natural position at Forest. He played CF in his first year and deeper in his second. Playing 1 or 2 up front means we don't really need a fifth striker, which Brereton is. In a 3-4-1-2, because Travis and Evans are a 2, not part of a three, Armstrong and Gallagher have to be the two up front, with Brereton in behind. Neither Rothwell nor Hotby has established himself as Dack's cover and Brereton does have a beard of the correct colour.Every report I read on Buckley says to me that he needs to bulk up and work on his upper body strength. Davenport? I had to check the team sheets to see that he played against Fleetwood.

Happy to see BB behind a front two for sure. You're right about Holtby and Rothwell. Holtby playing as a false 9 did not make for good viewing - Mowbrays fault more than his own but I am yet to see Holtby make a position his own which is frustrating because I think he could/should have.

[JHRover]

18 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He got 4 goals last season, shouldn't be that difficult to replace. Do you still think we need to replace Smallwood and Samuel as well? Lol 

As for options if we need experience, well hopefully Downing signs, but ya, you're against re-signing him , aren't you? 

Last season we had Graham and Samuel as options from the bench. When in need of a goal or in Graham's case some expert ball retention we could chuck him on the pitch and we knew what we would get. We can debate until the cows come home as to how good they were/are but they were there and were options to use that we dont have and seemingly have no intention of replacing with incomings.

Those are the facts.

If you are confident or comfortable with a plan of hoping and praying one of the young lads can fill that void that's fine. Just don't moan in December if Dack hasn't got his mojo back and we are completely dependent upon Armstrong for all our goals.

I am not against Downing re-signing. Where did I say that? 

I think losing half a dozen midfielders and forwards and not replacing any of them is a gamble.

[roversfan99]

49 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

I agree that there's a good player in Brereton. The big fee has impacted him badly - he's struggled to deal with the pressure. We have to remember he's only 21 and learning his trade. If he had come through the youth team and no fee was paid for him, the attitude towards him would be very different. Instead, big things are expected immediately because he cost 7m. 

There is a very valid debate of whether we should have spent 7m on a player that wouldn't be able to come into the team straight away and be one of our key players. 

 

Gallagher is different. He's been played completely out of position and asked to do things he's not capable of doing. Stick him up front and get balls into the box. He'll score a few then. 

I actually think that in many ways, his price tag goes in his favour too.

The fact that we were all full of praise over 2 performances post lockdown in which he did a few tidy dribbles, but the only time he got near goal, he slipped on his arse, said it all. We are so depserate to see something from him that we cling onto any slither of hope.

Ultimately in 2 years he has 1 goal in each season, both of which were in end of season dead rubbers. Its not an immediate expectation thing. He has looked well, well off the standard so far.

You also mention his inability to deal with pressure but its not as if he was tearing it up at Forest, by the end he couldnt make their matchday 18.

Gallagher did actually play plenty down the middle too last season. People refer to his first season here as if he was hindered by Coyle but that was by far the best season of his career and it was a 1 goal ever 4 game type season. He should be second choice striker behind Armstrong but he wont get the number of goals you need to challenge at the top.

17 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Aren't we going for promotion this season? Sounds a bit of a gamble to me. Give them a chance to prove they are good enough. I'd rather ensure we have a side that we KNOW is good enough. You do know that Butterworth has been injured for the last year?

Absolutely. Unfortunately I suspect it is going to remain untouched as a result of the imbalances elsewhere in the squad but whilst I am happy to see youngsters get a chance, ideally we could have a more senior option in there aswell.

I feel a bit uncomfortable if we are too reliant on youngsters coming through (ones with a small cameo in the league each) because we dont know if they are ready yet, and obviously Gallagher and Brereton have underperformed. It should almost be a bonus if one (or both) of Vale and Butterworth have a breakthrough season, we shouldnt be reliant on them at this stage.

[oldjamfan1]

38 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Batty was the in your face, tough tackling midfielder that every successful team needs. He was not short of ability either and could play. Obviously not in Keane's league but about as good as we could get as a second option at the time. Travis reminds me very much of Batty - which does excite me.

Sherwood was the more cultured midfielder, so cultured in fact that we did not need Zidane lol. He would get you a few goals and assists, something that you would not get too much from Batty. 

I wasn't going to join in this debate as it is a bit off-topic, but ask any player who has played with or against Batty how good he is. That lad had everything in his locker, a marvellous footballer. I can't remember which Rovers player it was (possibly big Col) said when he first saw Batty training he couldn't believe how good he actually was, and even he as a seasoned pro had bought into this urban myth that Batty was a limited player. Sherwood was a flash git who was a world-beater when you were 2-0 up, but not when you were 1-0 down unfortunately. Amazing to think that Kenny gave him the armband above the likes of Hendry, Shearer, Flowers etc.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's irrelevant, if funny. He was injured most of last season and played Saturday. 

So there is zero evidence he is leaving? 

Sharpe mentioned it in the LT within last couple of days. The link is in this thread somewhere. 

[chaddyrovers]

Williams linked with DC United and Swansea. Paul Nealon is the guy linking him to those clubs who is owner Irish fan tv

[JHRover]

12 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Of Course I know Butterworth was injured. Why would you think I wouldn't know. 

But we have academy and will needed to be using it. We have talent players in academy so we need to bring through more. 

Jack Vale is going to be good player for us if we bring him through properly

You only use it if the players are good enough and are ready for the Championship. 

You don't use it regardless to prove some sort of point and in the process hinder the first team.

My only interest is getting a team out that can get promoted. I am not interested in individuals, projects or development. I don't care if they are from the academy or Burkina Faso. 

All about ensuring the team is properly equipped for the challenges ahead.

You make it sound as though we need more from the academy than we have been getting. Last time i looked we have Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis all academy products playing regularly along with Buckley and Rankin Costello more recently.

That's a big return, I'm not aware of any other club with such numbers so we have already used it heavily. Thats good of course. But I dont get this attitude of 'we need to use the academy more moving forward'. We don't. We need promotion moving forward.

 

 

[chaddyrovers]

4 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

whilst I am happy to see youngsters get a chance, ideally we could have a more senior option in there aswell.

if you have senior back up striker there surely thats blocking the pathway of a youngster like Jack Vale? 

 

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Williams linked with DC United and Swansea. Paul Nealon is the guy linking him to those clubs who is owner Irish fan tv

Swansea  are supposedly after Ayala. Supposedly they aren't awash with money & even with the lad from Wolves, they need to replace some of their attacking loans from last year. 

If they're after Williams they've either got a few more quid than they're letting on, or they've abandoned getting Ayala in my view. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Last season we had Graham and Samuel as options from the bench. When in need of a goal or in Graham's case some expert ball retention we could chuck him on the pitch and we knew what we would get. We can debate until the cows come home as to how good they were/are but they were there and were options to use that we dont have and seemingly have no intention of replacing with incomings.

Those are the facts.

If you are confident or comfortable with a plan of hoping and praying one of the young lads can fill that void that's fine. Just don't moan in December if Dack hasn't got his mojo back and we are completely dependent upon Armstrong for all our goals.

I am not against Downing re-signing. Where did I say that? 

I think losing half a dozen midfielders and forwards and not replacing any of them is a gamble.

Maybe Vale and Butterworth will be better to have than Graham and Samuel, if that's the case will you come on and say you were wrong? It seems to be you moaned about not signing defenders/goalkeepers, not having any money etc, but now that seems to be moving ahead, you have decided to move towards a different gripe. One that most people don't seem to understand.   

Do you still think we need to replace Smallwood? LOL Samuel slightly less on the LOL scale but still there. Butterworth and Vale probably cost less to have around that Graham. Graham who was clearly finished last season. Obviously it would be great to go out and spend millions on a striker, but if it's a case of frees or loans, ya, I'm comfortable giving those 2 young lads a chance. We have no shortage of midfielders or forwards. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Swansea  are supposedly after Ayala. Supposedly they aren't awash with money & even with the lad from Wolves, they need to replace some of their attacking loans from last year. 

If they're after Williams they've either got a few more quid than they're letting on, or they've abandoned getting Ayala in my view. 

So Swansea, a team who got in the play-offs, want Williams? Probably another that isn't as bad as people on here make out. I would keep him as a CB option. 

I wonder how much they bid 

[RoverKyle]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

So Swansea, a team who got in the play-offs, want Williams? Probably another that isn't as bad as people on here make out. I would keep him as a CB option. 

I wonder how much they bid 

I think he's better than most people give him credit for. I think as a back up, he's a decent option.