Summer Transfer Window

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

We have been trying to compete tho.

The manager bought badly but has certainly been backed, Brereton and Gallagher two expensive signings, Holtby, Johnson,and Downing would be on very good money and certainly in the case of Holtby would have took a nice signing on fee to get him here.

The manager has been backed,we have tried to compete in terms of spending.

Bauer didn't come here not because of money but he would not have been first choice.Mowbray said many times last year he was looking for a particular type of player to play alongside Lenihen and found that in Tosin a totally different type of player and who according to numerous reports didn't come cheap either.

I'm not saying I agree with that but I'm not the manager and since he has walked through the door he has been backed.

I agree with some of the things you say about the state the club finds itself in and the disregard shown by the owners but they are putting cash in,well have been since Mowbray came to the club.

And imo you take it to another level with some of your criticism, like going on about the fact we didn't go on a pre season getaway and piss up, and how you seem to think we should be like Chelsea and Man city with 3 or 4 players of similar ability for each position, suggesting Smallwood ,Mulgrew and Samuel are losses to the squad and we should replace them with cash signings instead of looking to our youth .

Money is obviously tight, most of our funds should be used on our first eleven

 

I don't expect 3 or 4 for every position like Man City. I think we should have 2 for each position and if we don't i think injuries will cost us.

We are a long way off even having 2 for each position. For a club like ours to be on the cusp of a new season without any depth in GK or defence I think is very poor and I will criticise that because it was avoidable and shouldn't happen at a club like this.

I've accepted already that the pre season training camp isn't a major issue especially this year but I do think this is another area we lag behind similar clubs and could do more. It annoys me when we play Barrow and Bury whilst smaller clubs go off to the continent playing quality opposition.

[roversfan99]

This notion, especially assuming a formation of 433 that we should just crack on with the kids up top but cant rely on them elsewhere is bizarre. I hope that Mowbray changes his mind, maybe if resources allow to add to the attacking side of things.

Assuming that a second keeper, CB and LB are a given. If we look at the balance of the squad, the areas in which the youngsters closest to establishing themselves are mainly in defence and midfield.

Across the forward line, we have one number 10 who is injured but our best player. Armstrong is also a key player. Outside of that, we have the underwhelming Gallagher and Brereton, who has scored in 2 dead rubbere in 2 years. Even if I count on them 2, that is 4 proven players across 3 positions in a position that provokes the most rotation and in terms of substitutions, the most depth is needed.

Our main youngsters in terms of game time are in defence and midfield. Wharton with 80 plus senior games and 3 promotions. Davenport has at least half a season of game time under his belt. Buckley made quite a few starts. 1 CB and 2 CMs. Rankin Costello could be an option wide and I would play him there but he is a common Nyambe inuury away from playing at right back.

We cant going into the season EXPECTING rather than hoping that any kid without ever having a senior league start can be depended on yet. And an extra body doesnt totally eliminate It is unfair and totally crazy to depend on them considering our ambitions. If any of Dolan, Vale, Butterworth and even Chapman etc come through this season its a bonus. 

We need at least one extra player across that forward line, one who can play wide. 1 keeper, 2 CB, 1 LB, 1 wide men. Then if we can, a CM.

[Theaxe15]

15 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I don't expect 3 or 4 for every position like Man City. I think we should have 2 for each position and if we don't i think injuries will cost us.

We are a long way off even having 2 for each position. For a club like ours to be on the cusp of a new season without any depth in GK or defence I think is very poor and I will criticise that because it was avoidable and shouldn't happen at a club like this.

I've accepted already that the pre season training camp isn't a major issue especially this year but I do think this is another area we lag behind similar clubs and could do more. It annoys me when we play Barrow and Bury whilst smaller clubs go off to the continent playing quality opposition.

To be fair we have friendlies against Everton and Leicester coming up... Don't have to go to the continent to get decent opposition

[Ricky]

The gaping holes in defence and goal make it even more astounding that anyone authorised TM spending £12m on two average front men. Especially when they don’t seem to fit the system that he wants to play. Madness!

[Ben Frost]

3 hours ago, JHRover said:

OK. Still bought them though. And Venkys are still putting £15-20 million a year in. So that makes income quite irrelevant. If the owners can and will pump millions in then we can compete. 

Your theory appears to be done on the basis the owners don't put more in here than most every year. Of course without external investment we might struggle to compete. You can apply that to everyone. Without Sky money the relegated clubs couldn't compete.

It's not irrelevant because of FFP. You are concentrating too much on what has been spent, and ignoring what revenue is being generated. Income is massively relevant. 

Now on previous form, your next response will be to say "other clubs ignore FFP and get big lawyers in so it's OK, Rovers should be doing the same" 

Which is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, risk. See Sheffield Wednesday. Secondly, ethics. See Derby. Wayne Rooney wearing the 32 shirt because a betting company basically financed that stunt? Thirdly, integrity. You seem to think that Rovers should flout the FFP rules just because it's possible. Well it's possible to go to a local rave tonight, no face mask, no distancing, no care about the impact of behaviour that is socially unacceptable. 

Whether or not the EFL are competent at enforcing their shit rules is irrelevant for me. All 72 clubs sign up to them and I'd hate Rovers to join the ranks of the cheats. 

[philipl]

I don't think people truly understand how small and how much poorer Blackburn is as a town economically compared with the home locations of most other Championship clubs.

Rovers do really well even now in the ratio of crowds to population size but Rovers' crowds are not only smaller than the Championship average but prices paid are below average also.

Where this gets really painful for Rovers is on the commercial side where lack of businesses able to put in the sort of money other clubs get is dramatic.

FFP has not gone away despite covid.

Cases brought against other clubs show the League are applying pre Covid rules still.

Remember we were going to be breaking FFP when Dack was unable to be sold in January.

Management and owners throughout the League simply don't know where they stand relative to FFP in the current circumstances.

One morbid thought is that other clubs are therefore hit far harder proportionately by zero gate and match day commercial income than Rovers are.

Paradoxically I therefore bet Waggott and Mowbray are in a better position in this transfer window than at least half the other Championship management teams.

Edited August 29, 2020 by philipl

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

It's not irrelevant because of FFP. You are concentrating too much on what has been spent, and ignoring what revenue is being generated. Income is massively relevant. 

Now on previous form, your next response will be to say "other clubs ignore FFP and get big lawyers in so it's OK, Rovers should be doing the same" 

Which is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, risk. See Sheffield Wednesday. Secondly, ethics. See Derby. Wayne Rooney wearing the 32 shirt because a betting company basically financed that stunt? Thirdly, integrity. You seem to think that Rovers should flout the FFP rules just because it's possible. Well it's possible to go to a local rave tonight, no face mask, no distancing, no care about the impact of behaviour that is socially unacceptable. 

Whether or not the EFL are competent at enforcing their shit rules is irrelevant for me. All 72 clubs sign up to them and I'd hate Rovers to join the ranks of the cheats. 

I read some sanctimonious claptrap on here but this takes the biscuit.

It cant be cheating by Derby. they were found innocent.

Edited August 29, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Bbrovers2288]

6 hours ago, JHRover said:

Talk about moving goalposts - we've gone from me saying we can compete in the Championship to me apparently claiming that we are a 'big financial powerhouse'.

Lol

More than half this league would love billionaire owners willing and able to write off £15 million a year. I detest Venkys but I accept that the money they put in should at least put us a notch above many in this league.

You seem to think even though we are burning up £15 million a year in losses that we are neck and neck with the nobbers and the rest. 

 

We are neck and neck with Preston though, in fact they have been above us in recent years. They have a better manager, better recruitment so that’s why we are looking up at them.

we are leaking money like oil, hence why the chequebook has now been put away, we are relying on freebies, loans or bargains. We won’t be making any 3-4 mill signing this season. 
 

you mentioned those clubs you believe we are bigger than but still in a head to head with a signing, we will often lose. Between money, location of club, fan base etc etc we are not one of the leagues heavyweights by any means. We are where we are- slap bang in the middle of the league for finances, league position, reputation 

some folk need a reality pill, I’m all for optimism but really

[Exiled_Rover]

6 hours ago, Theaxe15 said:

Bell isn't great by all means, but we have gone on good runs with him in the team. For me priority has to be CB. Wharton and Carter have about 4 Championship starts between them. Carter didn't look ready and wasn't Wharton at fault for Blackpool's goal? Not saying that should be used to determine he isn't ready but personally I'd feel far more comfortable with someone next to Lenihan with similar experience.

Bell is an utter liability at LB. A proven one.

Wharton and Carter, at worst, are young and can improve. 

We DESPERATELY need a LB. More than anything else (besides new owners).

[Exiled_Rover]

6 hours ago, Mercer said:

It's worrying we have so many gaps to fill.

As a minimum, another goalie, two centre backs, a left back, a midfielder and a striker.

Let's be honest, two of Mowbray's mainstays (Lenihan and Evans) are likely to be missing through injury for at least 25 games per season (between them) if history is anything to go by. I'd be surprised if the stats over recent seasons don't show Evans missing one in two on average and Lenihan one in three or four on average.

In midfield, Johnson, IMO, is clearly not the answer, Davenport isn't, IMO, up to it and it therefore leaves Travis terribly exposed.

As for strikers, does anyone really think Brereton and Gallagher are going to become prolific overnight.  Armstrong can't do it all by himself and, IMO, Butterworth wont cut it whilst I think Vale is our best hope.

So much for Mowbray's evolution and solid slow build.  Sadly, IMO, he hasn't even got the foundations in place.

At a minimum we need a LB. Stretch funds a bit further and I'd love a CB and a CM.

ST is a pipe dream and, quite frankly, we have to live or die by the £15m strike force Tony has assembled (Armstrong, Dack, Gallagher, Brereton).

[Paul Mani]

3 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

At a minimum we need a LB. Stretch funds a bit further and I'd love a CB and a CM.

ST is a pipe dream and, quite frankly, we have to live or die by the £15m strike force Tony has assembled (Armstrong, Dack, Gallagher, Brereton).

2 cbs (assuming Williams and Mulgrew are going), Lb and a CM to play the 433. 

We have to go with the forwards we have spent money on as you said and he will live and die by their results.

[Herbie6590]

4 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I read some sanctimonious claptrap on here but this takes the biscuit.

It cant be cheating by Derby. they were found innocent.

The latest episode of the Price of Football podcast covers this. Derby used accounting practices regarding depreciation that are forbidden by UEFA but weren’t explicitly forbidden by the EFL. The EFL rules are going to be changed to comply with UEFA & Derby will have to come in line. 
Essentially they were not writing down the values of players in their accounts on a straight line basis which means smaller deductions in the early years of a contract but it catches up with you eventually when that player’s contract ends or they are sold for less than book value. Derby were essentially kicking the can down the road. 
The stadium sale valuation has apparently been justified. Its location on Pride Park helps it here, a few years ago now granted, I was looking for commercial property to rent in & around Derby & rents in Pride Park were very high relatively given location, proximity to rail station & so on.

So the EFL played a blinder here by not doing their homework & not detailing their rules adequately before challenging Derby. Derby’s lawyers did what they were paid to do by pointing it out & getting their client off the charges.

[47er]

1 minute ago, Paul Mani said:

he will live and die by their results.

Always in the future. Surely he's had enough time already? Why do we have to have another season like last to prove it? Or will it be yet another year?

[Paul Mani]

17 minutes ago, 47er said:

Always in the future. Surely he's had enough time already? Why do we have to have another season like last to prove it? Or will it be yet another year?

I don’t know mate, I’m not the CEO nor am I a member of the Rao family.

But it seems that the manager is safe for now and therefore my post was relating to transfer activity and the positions I would focus on.

Edited August 29, 2020 by Paul Mani

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

We cant going into the season EXPECTING rather than hoping that any kid without ever having a senior league start can be depended on yet.

Has any poster even said we can depended on Dolan in ANY post?

[chaddyrovers]

Any response to these questions @Mercer? 

I wouldn't most of the rumours on twitter are BS. There is few people on there claiming to north west reporters or journalist. So if there is a reliable source on twitter who has linked Armstrong to another club can you please post them? or can't you produce the answers to these Mercer?

How much of Kipre have you seen? and what type of defender is he and what are are best attributes? Have you not seen much of him at him?

[JHRover]

8 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

It's not irrelevant because of FFP. You are concentrating too much on what has been spent, and ignoring what revenue is being generated. Income is massively relevant. 

Now on previous form, your next response will be to say "other clubs ignore FFP and get big lawyers in so it's OK, Rovers should be doing the same" 

Which is wrong on so many levels. Firstly, risk. See Sheffield Wednesday. Secondly, ethics. See Derby. Wayne Rooney wearing the 32 shirt because a betting company basically financed that stunt? Thirdly, integrity. You seem to think that Rovers should flout the FFP rules just because it's possible. Well it's possible to go to a local rave tonight, no face mask, no distancing, no care about the impact of behaviour that is socially unacceptable. 

Whether or not the EFL are competent at enforcing their shit rules is irrelevant for me. All 72 clubs sign up to them and I'd hate Rovers to join the ranks of the cheats. 

Ethics and integrity. Essentially had these rules been in place 30 years ago then what Jack Walker did here in 1990-1991 would have been in breach of the rules and 'ethics and integrity'. Would you have told him to put his chequebook away because it wasn't good for integrity?

If you have money you should spend it. Not be hamstrung by nonsensical rules.

Derby have proven it can be done and challenged. The Rooney stunt and the stadium sale just clever ways of beating the system that brave and bold clubs will find and get away with.

I have seen Sheffield Wednesday. What about them? You will note that their points deduction wasn't given for breaking Ffp rules or overspending, but was given for failing to provide accurate records in their accounts and attempting to decieve the League by backdating their stadium sale.

Two very different things. 

Many of those clubs to get promoted in the last 5 years have broken the rules and ethics and integrity, including QPR, Leicester, Bournemouth, Aston Villa and Brighton.

Nice guys finish last in this game.

 

[Theaxe15]

4 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Bell is an utter liability at LB. A proven one.

Wharton and Carter, at worst, are young and can improve. 

We DESPERATELY need a LB. More than anything else (besides new owners).

We haven't seen enough of Wharton and Carter at this level to know they aren't liabilities. And the centre of defence is arguably a more crucial position in general, literally the last bit of protection a goalkeeper has, you can't be be going into a season with only one good centre half at this level.

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[JHRover]

6 hours ago, philipl said:

I don't think people truly understand how small and how much poorer Blackburn is as a town economically compared with the home locations of most other Championship clubs.

Rovers do really well even now in the ratio of crowds to population size but Rovers' crowds are not only smaller than the Championship average but prices paid are below average also.

Where this gets really painful for Rovers is on the commercial side where lack of businesses able to put in the sort of money other clubs get is dramatic.

FFP has not gone away despite covid.

Cases brought against other clubs show the League are applying pre Covid rules still.

Remember we were going to be breaking FFP when Dack was unable to be sold in January.

Management and owners throughout the League simply don't know where they stand relative to FFP in the current circumstances.

One morbid thought is that other clubs are therefore hit far harder proportionately by zero gate and match day commercial income than Rovers are.

Paradoxically I therefore bet Waggott and Mowbray are in a better position in this transfer window than at least half the other Championship management teams.

I agree that by national standards Blackburn is a small and relatively poor urban area. Good news for us is that a massive portion of our home crowd doesn't live in Blackburn. They live across Lancashire in North Lancs, Fylde, South Ribble, Hyndburn, Rossendale. Include those areas and it isnt just one poor town but many towns including quite affluent areas.

Partly an exodus of people from Blackburn and partly our glory days of the 90s led to thousands of fans in these areas who still travel to games.

Sadly I am not aware of any efforts the club makes in these areas to maintain or grow numbers. Meanwhile competition increases

Our prices are mid range for the Championship. 

Lack of businesses to put money in? Have you seen how many industrial groups are based at Whitebirk, Bamber Bridge, Darwen, Shadsworth? Very few of them have deals with the club. 

We don't even employ a commercial director.

 

[SBlue]

59 minutes ago, Herbie6590 said:

The latest episode of the Price of Football podcast covers this. Derby used accounting practices regarding depreciation that are forbidden by UEFA but weren’t explicitly forbidden by the EFL. The EFL rules are going to be changed to comply with UEFA & Derby will have to come in line. 
Essentially they were not writing down the values of players in their accounts on a straight line basis which means smaller deductions in the early years of a contract but it catches up with you eventually when that player’s contract ends or they are sold for less than book value. Derby were essentially kicking the can down the road. 
The stadium sale valuation has apparently been justified. Its location on Pride Park helps it here, a few years ago now granted, I was looking for commercial property to rent in & around Derby & rents in Pride Park were very high relatively given location, proximity to rail station & so on.

So the EFL played a blinder here by not doing their homework & not detailing their rules adequately before challenging Derby. Derby’s lawyers did what they were paid to do by pointing it out & getting their client off the charges.

Interesting.

May I add “Fuck Wednesday” though.

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Good to hear but they need to be more than just on Mowbray's mind. We need to be getting them done. They've been on about the Dack one for months.

Sounds to me that Mowbray is communicating with India again warning against another summer of loans and warning they need to get these contracts done.

 

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

Good to hear but they need to be more than just on Mowbray's mind. We need to be getting them done. They've been on about the Dack one for months.

Sounds to me that Mowbray is communicating with India again warning against another summer of loans and warning they need to get these contracts done.

 

well if you read its says Mowbray has spoken to their owners about new contracts for the 5 players(Armstrong, Dack, Lenihan, Travis and Nyambe). 

Also I would expect a couple of loans which isn't an issue? 

Plus we have making cash bids for players. So the focus will be buying players first. Loans tend to become towards the end of transfer window when players won't make their club 25's man squad. 

[Mattyblue]

6 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I agree that by national standards Blackburn is a small and relatively poor urban area. Good news for us is that a massive portion of our home crowd doesn't live in Blackburn. They live across Lancashire in North Lancs, Fylde, South Ribble, Hyndburn, Rossendale. Include those areas and it isnt just one poor town but many towns including quite affluent areas.

Partly an exodus of people from Blackburn and partly our glory days of the 90s led to thousands of fans in these areas who still travel to games.

Sadly I am not aware of any efforts the club makes in these areas to maintain or grow numbers. Meanwhile competition increases

 

 

A great point, the club still seems to operate with a Blackburn with Darwen mindset, when I would wager the percentage of our season ticket holders/regular walk ons with a Blackburn postcode has dropped markedly over the past 20 years as more and more Rovers supporting Blackburners have spread across Lancashire.

The re-instalment of our old branch network, modelled on the very active and popular London Branch should be a priority, yet I doubt it’s even on a radar... 

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

well if you read its says Mowbray has spoken to their owners about new contracts for the 5 players(Armstrong, Dack, Lenihan, Travis and Nyambe). 

Also I would expect a couple of loans which isn't an issue? 

Plus we have making cash bids for players. So the focus will be buying players first. Loans tend to become towards the end of transfer window when players won't make their club 25's man squad. 

I did read it. Again I would like to see these contract scenarios resolved as a matter of some urgency rather than telling the owners that we need it. Too slow. We've been burned before by expiring contracts and if we want to moan about FFP then we cannot allow them to run down. 

What loans we do depends on the positions and who we get on permanents. I will be extremely disappointed if CB is addressed by loans, whereas I have no objection to midfield or attack being dealt with that way. But we need key areas dealing with permanently or we are just kicking the can down the road. 

Let's just hope these bids see decent players arrive soon. I recall you expected a couple of signings by today which hasn't happened.