Summer Transfer Window

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Swanson said:

Not much to do on this nighwatch, so here is how and when we have bought players for the past 3 seasons :

31 signings with 19.permanent signing and 12 loans. 

[AllRoverAsia]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

31 signings with 19.permanent signing and 12 loans. 

The list includes U23s but then leaves out some who have already been bombed out.

Put a line through the dross, I would do it but my pen is short of ink.

Edited September 8, 2020 by AllRoverAsia

[Mattyblue]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Fair enough

Thanks for the replies

 

Thought we weren’t going to panic this year?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

6 hours ago, J*B said:

My approach as chairman would be quite simple - I would ask Mowbray if he was confident we would finish in the top 6 with the footballing budget allocated. If he said no, I would immediately remove a large % of the budget and ask him to play/develop the kids. If we are struggling in January the budget is still there to bring in enough quality players on short term loans to ensure we don’t go down. As long as we don’t go down all we have done is given opportunities for our own young players to either shine and become valuable assets or prove they are not currently up to the job. 

How can anyone be confident of finishing in the Top 6?  Having the biggest budget and best players isn't always enough in the Championship. 

And removing a large % of the budget is lunacy, once you start losing games and get dragged down to the bottom there's no guarantee that you can get out of it even with cash injected back into new players in January. If we don't recruit a defender or two we could be really struggling this season, by the same token get some quality defensive reinforcements and we could mount a serious challenge for the top 6. It's always the finest of lines in the Championship between success and failure.

Considering we have a squad full of academy grads I'd say Mowbray is doing ok developing the kids. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[unsall]

5 hours ago, Swanson said:

Not much to do on this nighwatch, so here is how and when we have bought players (summer windows) for the past 3 seasons :

17/18

Peter Whittingham 13.06.2017
Richard Smallwood 20.06.2017
Bradley Dack 27.06.2017
Ben Gladwin 28.06.2017
Dominic Samuel 19.07.2017
Paul Caddis 20.07.2017
Joe Nuttall 22.07.2017
Jayson Leutwiler 02.08.2017
Harry Chapman 04.08.2017 LOAN
Marcus Antonsson 11.08.2017 LOAN
Rekeem Harper 31.08.2017 LOAN
Sam Hart 31.08.2017
Paul Downing 31.08.2017 LOAN

First league game 05.08.2017
Deadline day 31.08.2017

18/19

Joe Rothwell 22.06.2018
Jacob Davenport 02.07.2018
Kasey Palmer 30.07.2018 LOAN
Adam Armstrong 06.08.2018
Jack Rodwell 23.08.2018
Harrison Reed 27.08.2018 LOAN
Ben Brereton 28.08.2018 LOAN
Brad Lyons 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)
Mitchell Candlin 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)

First league game 04.08.2018
Deadline day 31.08.2018

19/20

Stewart Downing 21.06.2019
Bradley Johnson 05.07.2019
Sam Gallagher 13.07.2019
Christian Walton 23.07.2019 LOAN
Tosin Adarabioyo 31.07.2019 LOAN
Greg Cunningham 08.08.2019 LOAN

First league game 03.08.2019
Deadline day 08.08.2019

Lewis Holtby 19.09.2019

20/21

Tyrhys Dolan 01.07.2020 (U23)
Thomas Kaminski 26.08.2020
Connor McBride 02.09.2020 (U23)

First league game 12.09.2020

Deadline day 05.10.2020 + Domestic transfers until 16.10.2020

Source : Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.

Good stats.

[AJW]

6 hours ago, J*B said:

I personally think we have a club wise issue with how we recognise success. As far as I’m concerned — and if I was Chairman — I would be saying if we don’t finish top 6 we may as well finish 21st. 7th and 21st both equal the same thing. 
It makes zero difference in this league, the financial benefits aren’t the same as the PL where each position is worth X amount more money. I would rather finish 21st playing JRC, Nyambe, Wharton, Dolan, etc than finish frustratingly close to the top 6 and then have to send back our key players when their loans end and rebuild. 

What you are saying does make a lot of sense , but fans are not that patient and to finish 21st in this league means losing a lot , losing games to teams we feel we shouldn’t , the mob will get angry and frustrated and before you know it those young players  you mention will find themselves playing in a poisonous atmosphere 

[Paul Mani]

5 hours ago, Fraserkirky said:

Loans are the last option for Mowbray, is the conclusion

@J*B prob hit the nail on the head. They’ve likely tried now to get Kipre and Mawson as top targets and been done financially on both deals...so they’re onto the ‘other’ names on the list.

I also agree that if we can’t get into the top 6 in reality, which the Combined budget suggests it’s going to be tough then I would also pull this ‘mid level budget’ for all players other than those we can develop and increase In value.

I would rather them play one of Carter or Wharton next to Lenihan than pay another loan fee plus wages for Tosin (who I love btw). Kipre was a no brainer at £900k. He’d have been worth £5m to us by next summer and will be worth at least that and prob more to West Brom  in the PL.

My friend who’s a first team coach in the Championship reckons Ayala wants £40k a week which corroborates with Crookes info. Whilst Ayala would be a fantastic signing, there’s no point putting a 30 odd year old on a 2/3 year contract on £40k per week with no resale value unless he’s the final piece of the jigsaw. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

5 minutes ago, AJW said:

What you are saying does make a lot of sense , but fans are not that patient and to finish 21st in this league means losing a lot , losing games to teams we feel we shouldn’t , the mob will get angry and frustrated and before you know it those young players  you mention will find themselves playing in a poisonous atmosphere 

That's an excellent point.

I'd say firstly if a manager doesn't believe he can get top 6 - he shouldn't be here.

Secondly, if we just play kids from the start, we essentially become an academy development team. 

Time to play kids is end of season dead rubbers - we usually have a few.

 

Get the point about loans -I'm not a fan of signing average players either.  Surely all loans are evaluated for impact in January though?

 

[Paul Mani]

12 minutes ago, AJW said:

What you are saying does make a lot of sense , but fans are not that patient and to finish 21st in this league means losing a lot , losing games to teams we feel we shouldn’t , the mob will get angry and frustrated and before you know it those young players  you mention will find themselves playing in a poisonous atmosphere 

And there lies the problem for managers and CEO’s. Mowbray and Waggot know that we don’t have a top 10 budget never mind a top 6 or top 2. That’s why they try to nick players like Kipre or Mawson to overachieve. Deep down they know that a Sarr is In our budget but unlikely to provide the momentum they need but to throw in the towel and let the young ones fail in the hope that they meet their potential would be professional suicide. Needs strong ownership to step forward and tell the fans whilst protecting the manager and ceo. 

The only time they spend Big money (rightly or wrongly) is when they believe they can develop players and get their money back. Think Dack (£750k in league 1), Arma, Brereton and Gally. Young forwards are most likely to turn a profit and of those four, they have a 50% strike rate!

[tomphil]

8 hours ago, islander200 said:

Because the manager decided to spend his budget on the attack and midfield.His budget wouldn't stretch to signing a player of Tosins quality.

The manager wanted Gallagher and spent the majority of his budget on that so spent the million plus on Tosin rather than bringing in an inferior player for the same money on 2 or 3 year deal

He did similar with Downing also so those 2 will have cost maybe 2 mill for one season.

Yet it never leads us to anything other than midtable. And here we are again looking for sticking plaster signings for defence and quality again.

Surely a decent manager can do something a bit more solid with that kind of money I think that's the point a few are trying to drum home. Not to you but one or two others.

Fact that he has to get in those signings just to get us to midtable brings questions itself.

[J*B]

31 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

How can anyone be confident of finishing in the Top 6?  Having the biggest budget and best players isn't always enough in the Championship. 

And removing a large % of the budget is lunacy, once you start losing games and get dragged down to the bottom there's no guarantee that you can get out of it even with cash injected back into new players in January. If we don't recruit a defender or two we could be really struggling this season, by the same token get some quality defensive reinforcements and we could mount a serious challenge for the top 6. It's always the finest of lines in the Championship between success and failure.

Considering we have a squad full of academy grads I'd say Mowbray is doing ok developing the kids. 

You’ve just questioned whether someone can be confident of finishing in the top 6, then in the following paragraph said that with the right reinforcements you are confident we could mount a serious top six challenge. That should answer your own question, because you’ve just done it. 

It’s only opinion, but just to be clear on exactly what I would do. If Mowbray was told he had, let’s say a 2m increase in budget across the board, my first question would be ‘is that enough to challenge the top 6?’. If the answer was yes, great. If the answer was no, that’s fine too, but I would say OK - let’s keep the budget how it was last year, develop our youth and keep the 2m in our pockets. Let’s see where we are in January, because finishing 7th gives us nothing that finishing 20th doesn’t. 

[J*B]

31 minutes ago, AJW said:

What you are saying does make a lot of sense , but fans are not that patient and to finish 21st in this league means losing a lot , losing games to teams we feel we shouldn’t , the mob will get angry and frustrated and before you know it those young players  you mention will find themselves playing in a poisonous atmosphere 

You’re probably right, but I would hope with clear communication the fans would back academy/younger players. I know that if Mowbray came out tomorrow and said we’re going to gamble on our youth until January, they’re going to need support but we could end up with some local superstars emerge, I’d be willing to give both him and the players some time. 

[Mattyblue]

You are talking perfectly rationally there J*B but football doesn’t work that way. Managers would be hounded out of a job even though fans are the first to say ‘just play the kids, even if we lose a few games’, ‘better than all these journeyman’ ‘at least they play for the shirt’ etc etc .

21st in the league and that’s all soon forgotten - see Woodgate.

Football fans are nothing if not bipolar and raging hypocrites.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, J*B said:

You’ve just questioned whether someone can be confident of finishing in the top 6, then in the following paragraph said that with the right reinforcements you are confident we could mount a serious top six challenge. That should answer your own question, because you’ve just done it. 

Not quite. Being confident of achieving something is not the same as being able to achieve. 12 teams COULD finish in the top 6 next season (as is normally the case in the Championship), I doubt very few if any of them are CONFIDENT of doing it - a subtle but important difference. Like I said, even the most heavily resourced clubs can't be confident of finishing in the top 6. 

You've also misrepresented what I said - "by the same token get some quality defensive reinforcements and we could mount a serious challenge for the top 6" - is what i said. I didn't say 'confident' at all. I said 'could'. 

[J*B]

Just now, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Not quite. Being confident of achieving something is not the same as being able to achieve. 12 teams COULD finish in the top 6 next season (as is normally the case in the Championship), I doubt very few if any of them are CONFIDENT of doing it - a subtle but important difference. Like I said, even the most heavily resourced clubs can't be confident of finishing in the top 6. 

You've also misrepresented what I said - "by the same token get some quality defensive reinforcements and we could mount a serious challenge for the top 6" - is what i said. I didn't say 'confident' at all. I said 'could'. 

Apologise — I’ll tweak the wording now, although the point would still stand. 

If the answer to ‘can you finish top six?’ is ‘yes, we could do, if we sign the right players’ then I think it’s only fair and reasonable to go for it. But it requires accountability and honesty - if the answer deep down is ‘even with the right signings it’s very unlikely’ then that’s a different discussion. 
 

For what it’s worth, unless we have the budget left to sign another back up keeper, a starting centre back, a reserve centre back and a starting left back at top end Championship level, I do not think it’s possible for us to challenge the top six.

[Guest]

How many people actually think we'd finish in the Top 6 even if we did sign back Tosin and Cunningham for CB and LB? I don't think we would. If we can finish 14th without spending a ton, or finish 8th whilst spending a ton, I know what I'd prefer...

[unsall]

8 minutes ago, J*B said:

You’re probably right, but I would hope with clear communication the fans would back academy/younger players. I know that if Mowbray came out tomorrow and said we’re going to gamble on our youth until January, they’re going to need support but we could end up with some local superstars emerge, I’d be willing to give both him and the players some time. 

That might be a good theory to normal rational fans, but that won’t be many fans in reality.

[Sparks Rover]

32 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

@J*B prob hit the nail on the head. They’ve likely tried now to get Kipre and Mawson as top targets and been done financially on both deals...so they’re onto the ‘other’ names on the list.

Mowbrays PR machine in full working order.

There's absolutely no evidence we were in for either....

Done financially? ?

[TimmyJimmy]

10 minutes ago, J*B said:

You’re probably right, but I would hope with clear communication the fans would back academy/younger players. I know that if Mowbray came out tomorrow and said we’re going to gamble on our youth until January, they’re going to need support but we could end up with some local superstars emerge, I’d be willing to give both him and the players some time. 

Also though, finishing in the basement positions makes it very difficult to sign players going forward. Players want to sign for teams on a trajectory not scrapping for survival each season. It's often about only money but occasionally you get the one who wants to buy in to a project, sacrifice jam today for promotion glory and jam and cream tomorrow. Well occasionally:-)

[JHRover]

5 minutes ago, JoeH said:

How many people actually think we'd finish in the Top 6 even if we did sign back Tosin and Cunningham for CB and LB? I don't think we would. If we can finish 14th without spending a ton, or finish 8th whilst spending a ton, I know what I'd prefer...

With that sort of attitude you will never get promoted.

Likewise you don't aim or target the top 6. You aim for the top 2 because 3rd might not be enough.

One of my biggest gripes with Mowbray is his meaningless 70 points target (which he missed). Not enough even for the top 6 so why bother? 

The likes of Warnock, Santo, Wilder, Bilic would never have done that 

[Rover8T4]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

How many people actually think we'd finish in the Top 6 even if we did sign back Tosin and Cunningham for CB and LB? I don't think we would. If we can finish 14th without spending a ton, or finish 8th whilst spending a ton, I know what I'd prefer...

Agreed, I think get this season out the way and we will have some serious decisions to make, A big IF certain players perform this season will determine how our next few seasons will go

[RovingRover]

6 hours ago, Swanson said:

Not much to do on this nighwatch, so here is how and when we have bought players (summer windows) for the past 3 seasons :

17/18

Arrivals:

Peter Whittingham 13.06.2017
Richard Smallwood 20.06.2017
Bradley Dack 27.06.2017
Ben Gladwin 28.06.2017
Dominic Samuel 19.07.2017
Paul Caddis 20.07.2017
Joe Nuttall 22.07.2017
Jayson Leutwiler 02.08.2017
Harry Chapman 04.08.2017 LOAN
Marcus Antonsson 11.08.2017 LOAN
Rekeem Harper 31.08.2017 LOAN
Sam Hart 31.08.2017
Paul Downing 31.08.2017 LOAN

Departures:

Hope Akpan 01.07.2017
Wes Brown 01.07.2017
Gordon Greer 01.07.2017
Danny Guthrie 01.07.2017
Adam Henley 01.07.2017
Jason Lowe 01.07.2017
Connor Mahoney 01.07.2017
Anthony Stokes 21.07.2017
Jason Steele 26.07.2017

First league game 05.08.2017
Deadline day 31.08.2017

18/19

Arrivals:

Joe Rothwell 22.06.2018
Jacob Davenport 02.07.2018
Kasey Palmer 30.07.2018 LOAN
Adam Armstrong 06.08.2018
Jack Rodwell 23.08.2018
Harrison Reed 27.08.2018 LOAN
Ben Brereton 28.08.2018 LOAN
Brad Lyons 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)
Mitchell Candlin 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)

Departures:

Liam Feeney 30.06.2018
Elliott Ward 30.06.2018
Paul Caddis 31.08.2018
Peter Whittingham 31.08.2018

First league game 04.08.2018
Deadline day 31.08.2018

19/20

Arrivals:

Stewart Downing 21.06.2019
Bradley Johnson 05.07.2019
Sam Gallagher 13.07.2019
Christian Walton 23.07.2019 LOAN
Tosin Adarabioyo 31.07.2019 LOAN
Greg Cunningham 08.08.2019 LOAN

Departures:

Craig Conway 30.06.2019
Paul Downing 30.06.2019
Jack Rodwell 30.06.2019
David Raya 06.07.2019
Joe Nuttall 01.08.2019

First league game 03.08.2019

Deadline day 08.08.2019

Lewis Holtby 19.09.2019

20/21

Arrivals:

Tyrhys Dolan 01.07.2020 (U23)
Thomas Kaminski 26.08.2020
Connor McBride 02.09.2020 (U23)

Departures:

Danny Graham 24.07.2020
Dominic Samuel 24.07.2020
Richard Smallwood 24.07.2020
Sam Hart 24.07.2020
Jayson Leutwiler 24.07.2020

Charlie Mulgrew ??.??.2020
Derrick Williams ??.??.2020

First league game 12.09.2020

Deadline day 05.10.2020 + Domestic transfers until 16.10.2020

Source : Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.

Given context.

Not being able to complete signings this summer seems to be a running theme. What happened to our signing of D'Margio Wright-Phillips that was mooted at the end of last season?

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, JHRover said:

One of my biggest gripes with Mowbray is his meaningless 70 points target (which he missed). Not enough even for the top 6 so why bother? 

Ironically last season was one of the very few times 70 points would have been enough. Mowbray was hoisted by his own petard there. 

[Paul Mellelieu]

We don't have the money or the profile that many on here think we might have.  That, along with our distant owners explains our predicament.  We are bang average in this league.

 

In these circumstances we need outstanding leadership and luck to get out of this league and we have an average, if likeable one. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by Paul Mellelieu

[Miker]

7 hours ago, J*B said:

I personally think we have a club wise issue with how we recognise success. As far as I’m concerned — and if I was Chairman — I would be saying if we don’t finish top 6 we may as well finish 21st. 7th and 21st both equal the same thing. 
It makes zero difference in this league, the financial benefits aren’t the same as the PL where each position is worth X amount more money. I would rather finish 21st playing JRC, Nyambe, Wharton, Dolan, etc than finish frustratingly close to the top 6 and then have to send back our key players when their loans end and rebuild. 

Agree with you there... but it’s hard to predict the impact loan players may have on the season.

I don’t think we signed Tosin, Walton and Cunningham on loan last season to float around mid table. Unfortunately Cunningham’s stint with the club got cut short and Walton proved to be a dud. Both players could have had the same impact on our season as Tosin did though, in which case we would likely have made the playoffs.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a short term loan deal if it helps you get out of this league, as its likely that we have to reassess the whole squad again once we’re in the PL anyway. 

The long term signings we’ve made in recent times have been smart. Gallagher, Brereton, Chapman, Davenport, Rothwell, Armstrong, Dack - they’ve all signed on modest wages and are still young and have potential to develop significantly. Together with the players coming through our academy, we have a really good group of players developing and learning together. 

If we do make it to the PL, all those players will be easy enough to loan out or sell on for reasonable fees if they can’t cut it at the top level. If we don’t make it to the PL, we’re at a lower risk level because we don’t have players sitting on crazy wages and we can just try again next season.