Summer Transfer Window

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I'm sure you're right, there just seems to be less money about this summer. We certainly don't appear to be splashing £5m on anyone like we did on Gally. 

Well it looks like we have come up short anyway with Ayala looking close to joining a new club.

With Kipre he most likely would have signed within our budget only for west brom coming in and offering a much better deal

[tomphil]

13 minutes ago, J*B said:

As far as I’m aware, the real hold up comes from Suhail. He’s the one that the Ewood staff think is responsible for things going to shit. The policy seems to be Venus identifies targets, Mowbray puts them to Waggot (affectionally known as Swag internally), Swag does the negotiation then refers it up to Suhail. Theoretically all that work can be done and then it can be kiboshed at the top. It shouldn’t get to that level and then have anything but an approval. 

And finally at last the layers get peeled back and at the center of the boil is the pus !

Edited September 9, 2020 by tomphil

[47er]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

we want to sign players who want to play here and develop here not just signing for money cos we will pay the most.

We want and need to sign several players pretty bloody quickly. Waggot and Mowbray have always known when the season starts.

You can't possibly spin this fiasco into some moral crusade on Rovers part. Its incompetence.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

24 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No, makes no sense whatsoever.

It would explain the Brereton signing though, owners getting itchy feet about no signings towards the end of that window as well, so make the extra transfer money available but the only way we can sign a £7m player and fit him into our wage structure is to sign a 19 year old.

I thought exactly the same earlier!

I suppose it depends what our top salary level is.  If it's £20k per week for the top 2 or 3 - fair enough. If it's £10-£12k it's like recruiting in Poundland at this level. 

 I agree in principal with some sort of cap but how do you retain your higher value players who are already likely to be at the top of the cap?

No wonder Dack is nowhere near a deal.  I bet Nyambe also fancies his chances at a better deal elsewhere.  

We then lose assets. 

If we value Dack at £10 mil - but he wants £10k a week more than the salary cap (as he could get that when he's a free agent).  Do we refuse and let him go for nothing.  Or pay the extra 1.5 million or so to retain a valuable asset?  

[simongarnerisgod]

As far as I’m aware, the real hold up comes from Suhail. He’s the one that the Ewood staff think is responsible for things going to shit. The policy seems to be Venus identifies targets, Mowbray puts them to Waggot (affectionally known as Swag internally), Swag does the negotiation then refers it up to Suhail. Theoretically all that work can be done and then it can be kiboshed at the top. It shouldn’t get to that level and then have anything but an approval. 

no self respecting manager can or would operate under those conditions,to me it`s further proof that mowbray does`nt give a hoot and is topping up his pension,if he had anything left in the managerial locker he`d walk away from the situation,mind you he did get the go ahead to blow 12 million quid where it was`nt needed,maybe suhail is`nt so keen on wasting another load of cash and is keeping the vault locked up

[bluebruce]

12 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I'm sure you're right, there just seems to be less money about this summer. We certainly don't appear to be splashing £5m on anyone like we did on Gally. 

Tbf we didn't appear to be splashing £5m on anyone like we did on Gally until we splashed £5m on Gally. Covid and the impending FFP cycle end have likely put paid to that kind of profligacy though. If the last two high cost failures didn't already.

Edited September 9, 2020 by bluebruce

[47er]

2 hours ago, JacknOry said:

Sometimes I just wish it would happen. 

Yep. I'm convinced it will happen at some point. The longer this goes on the fewer supporters there will be left in a rebuild.

[DE.]

26 minutes ago, Butty said:

Yeah they really gave Bowyer, C**le and Lambert millions didn’t they ?

From memory it was around that time the club was relying on emergency loans for day to day operations as well. If only the staff had known they just needed to ask the owners for more money.

[Paul Mani]

22 minutes ago, J*B said:

As far as I’m aware, the real hold up comes from Suhail. He’s the one that the Ewood staff think is responsible for things going to shit. The policy seems to be Venus identifies targets, Mowbray puts them to Waggot (affectionally known as Swag internally), Swag does the negotiation then refers it up to Suhail. Theoretically all that work can be done and then it can be kiboshed at the top. It shouldn’t get to that level and then have anything but an approval. 

Great insight....

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

24 minutes ago, J*B said:

As far as I’m aware, the real hold up comes from Suhail. He’s the one that the Ewood staff think is responsible for things going to shit. The policy seems to be Venus identifies targets, Mowbray puts them to Waggot (affectionally known as Swag internally), Swag does the negotiation then refers it up to Suhail. Theoretically all that work can be done and then it can be kiboshed at the top. It shouldn’t get to that level and then have anything but an approval. 

Why don't they just  run any potential deal past Suhail first then?  Doesn't seem rocket science to me ?‍♂️

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

From memory it was around that time the club was relying on emergency loans for day to day operations as well. If only the staff had known they just needed to ask the owners for more money.

We also had shitehawks like Shaw & co doing administrative duties back then and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did nothing to try and kick the club on.

We forget sometimes just how bad it was back then.

[RevidgeBlue]

9 minutes ago, JHRover said:

This the same Suhail that oversaw the Lambert fiasco then the Warnock/Coyle saga? Sounds about right.

To be fair, most people, myself included, thought Lambert was a remarkably good appointment at the time. It was only subsequently he turned out to be (imo) a fraud.

That said  no-one in their right minds should have been letting him come on the basis he could write in a get out clause after 6 months. It should have been "either you're in it for the long haul or on yer bike".

Even then it might have worked had Lambert proved to be anywhere near as good as his reputation. I don't suppose anyone would have minded that much had he got us up via the play offs then walked out. The problem was that with the benefit of hindsight it turned out to be another terrible appoointment but it looked promising at the time. Good back up staff as well, Irvine and Kelly.

[JHRover]

Bit of an issue when the only way of asking is to be granted an audience in person with Madame and then jumping on a long haul flight to Pune before every transfer window to receive this cash.

If only there was an alternative.

I think Mowbray and Waggott may have honourable intentions with not acceding to the demands of expensive players but it really is no excuse. If they know what we have to work with it is foolish to pursue players outside this in the hope they significantly drop demands and then ending up with nobody,

[Paul Mani]

30 minutes ago, J*B said:

As far as I’m aware, the real hold up comes from Suhail. He’s the one that the Ewood staff think is responsible for things going to shit. The policy seems to be Venus identifies targets, Mowbray puts them to Waggot (affectionally known as Swag internally), Swag does the negotiation then refers it up to Suhail. Theoretically all that work can be done and then it can be kiboshed at the top. It shouldn’t get to that level and then have anything but an approval. 

The best part of this post is that Waggots nickname is “Swag”...?????

[DE.]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

We also had shitehawks like Shaw & co doing administrative duties back then and it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did nothing to try and kick the club on.

We forget sometimes just how bad it was back then.

That period when we were run by Shebby and Shagnew was awful. The general incompetence at the club was astounding and it's amazing that Bowyer managed to keep us relatively stable during that time. We all know Bowyer ultimately underachieved with the squad he had in the 13/14 and 14/15 seasons, but I've always felt on balance he also deserves credit for assembling that squad during those dark days. Unfortunately he was eventually unable keep the wolf from the door after a couple of years of decent effort, and things went downhill a lot faster once he left. 

[Rover8T4]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Bit of an issue when the only way of asking is to be granted an audience in person with Madame and then jumping on a long haul flight to Pune before every transfer window to receive this cash.

If only there was an alternative.

I think Mowbray and Waggott may have honourable intentions with not acceding to the demands of expensive players but it really is no excuse. If they know what we have to work with it is foolish to pursue players outside this in the hope they significantly drop demands and then ending up with nobody,

Who’s to say agent a player agree, Then try luck at getting more money at advanced negotiation stage, 

[Guest]

43 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Only problem with clips and highlights is that its unlikely to highlight weaknesses and errors and impossible to gain a full picture.

The stats/data are as variable to the team they play for as the player themselves. Although interesting to read.

No. The clips encapsulate all aspects. A “passes” compilation will included incompleted and poor passes. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by JoeH

[RevidgeBlue]

58 minutes ago, Paul Mani said:

It is odd and weirdly honourable that TM and SW will not overspend. Especially because as we all know by now, all you really have to do with Venkys is ask for more and you will receive it! 

I actually agree with you that the owners do appear to make transfer funds available on request.

I don't however agree that it is "weirdly honourable" that TM and SW won't overspend.

T'M's only job is to secure promotion. Nothing else. He shouldn't be concerning himself with saving the owners money or reining them in, on the contrary he should be the one telling them what is needed to achieve the goal.

Waggott's role should be to support the manager as far as humanly possible and find ways of stretching the budget or making a convincing case out to the owners to make promotion a realistic possibility.

Unfortunately it comes across as neither can be remotely arsed and both would much rather keep expectations to a bare minimum and plod along in lower to mid Champuinship with no pressure until retirement.

[Crimpshrine]

3 hours ago, OssyLad said:

Get a grip lad, we could end up like Bolton and Bury any day if venkys decide to pull the plug. Which I hope won’t be soon. I’d rather us be sensible in the market rather than go all out and end up shit creek due ffp. Most Rovers fans these days need to pull there heads out of the sand. We can’t compete anymore. Our fan base is shocking for one and 2 we don’t have the appeal anymore

its all down to venkys and how badly they got advised and slowly but surely they’re trying to put it right, but it’s gonna take time 

One day Venky's will pull the plug. What's the point in carrying on in this moribund state waiting for it to happen?

I'd rather get it over with as soon as possible.

[RevidgeBlue]

1 hour ago, Butty said:

Yeah they really gave Bowyer, C**le and Lambert millions didn’t they ?

I thought Bowyer was pretty well backed. He brought in umpteen players. It looks to me that if you make a bit of effort with the owners and go over to India to see them and get your feet under the table they'll back you to the hilt.

Mowbray has done the same and he's been very well backed imo. The money he's wasted has been obscene yet he never seems to be under any pressure for it or asked to sell any players to compensate. (So far)

[Tom]

Randomly off topic here but how long has lancs live been around, is it an actual print paper or an online thing only?

I only ask because it seems only recent that we’ve had two local journos both being fed the same stories 

[awhom111]

I went through the accounts and looked up the transfer numbers for past seasons since relegation.  The first column is purchases during that year.  It should count all guaranteed payments associated with the transfer, regardless of when they have to be paid.  The second column is cash spent on transfers, regardless of when the purchase was made.  It should include add-on payments made during those periods as well.  The third column is cash received from transfers, regardless of when the sale was made.  It should also include add-on payments received.

[Fraserkirky]

8 minutes ago, awhom111 said:

I went through the accounts and looked up the transfer numbers for past seasons since relegation.  The first column is purchases during that year.  It should count all guaranteed payments associated with the transfer, regardless of when they have to be paid.  The second column is cash spent on transfers, regardless of when the purchase was made.  It should include add-on payments made during those periods as well.  The third column is cash received from transfers, regardless of when the sale was made.  It should also include add-on payments received.

Venkys pissing money into the wind

Looks like we went for it in 2018-2019 first season back and failed

Edited September 10, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[RevidgeBlue]

39 minutes ago, awhom111 said:

I went through the accounts and looked up the transfer numbers for past seasons since relegation.  The first column is purchases during that year.  It should count all guaranteed payments associated with the transfer, regardless of when they have to be paid.  The second column is cash spent on transfers, regardless of when the purchase was made.  It should include add-on payments made during those periods as well.  The third column is cash received from transfers, regardless of when the sale was made.  It should also include add-on payments received.

Thanks for sharing. I didn't quite understand your explanation of the difference between "Purchases and Cash out" but I assume purchases are the total headline amounts for any transfer deals completed during that season and cash out comprises of money actually paid out in installments for deals both those made in that season and in previous seasons.

To my untrained eye it looks like we've made a surplus on player trading of around £10m during that 7 year period but without wanting to sound like a PR guy for the owners  I think you probably have to read that in the context of trading losses of well over  £100 m during the same period plus, presumably, another substantial deficit for last season 2019/20.

[arbitro]

It's interesting that Waggott talks about a salary cap after the money that has been wasted recently. Aside from overpaying for players (and presumably salaries commensurate with those fees) we have (and still are) paying players not to play, £1.15m in agents fees and ridiculously £30k to fly the team to Cardiff recently.

The buck stops with the management team.

By the way Swag Tax has a nice ring to it ??.