Summer Transfer Window

[Richard Oakley]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re taking yourself down a dark, murky hypothetical hole there. Let’s get it right, there is no one reason why we didn’t go up last season. But if you are going to hang your hat on replacing Raya with Walton then why not the season ending injury to Cunningham? playing him over Bell would’ve netted us 7pts surely? Or what about narrowly missing out on Harrison Reed to Fulham? Surely he could’ve carried us home? The list is exhaustive.

The elephant in the room here is Dack. Our best player by miles! If we HAVE to play this game then his season ending injury is surely the reason we didn’t reach the top 6, right? He’s the most likely Rovers player to effect any game and he was out for 50% of the season.

The answer is of course that no one facet is the reason we fell 7pts short. But for you to point out that the loss of a VERY inconsistent Keeper for another VERY inconsistent keeper is THE reason for us not getting in the playoffs is...well... just wrong.

Walton conceded less goals than Raya did in the season before and had more clean sheets. Fact.

Rovers missed out on promotion for a whole host of reasons. Not replacing a decent goalie with a better one was a contributing factor, but 100% not the primary one.

You're entitled to your view. It is, however, a fact that Raya won the Golden Gloves with Brentford, last season. If you're crowing about a defence that conceded 63 goals, you're in far more of a murky hole than @Angry_Pirate .

It is fact that Walton was personally responsible for goals that cost us points. Mowbray would have slagged off Raya each and every time. He only did it once to Walton, presumably because Brighton told him not to. How many goals? My own feeling is that it was 10 goals and 10 points. It's the sort of stat @JoeH might have to hand. Like you, however, I don't feel comfortable pointing at one player and saying "you cost us promotion".

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re taking yourself down a dark, murky hypothetical hole there. Let’s get it right, there is no one reason why we didn’t go up last season. But if you are going to hang your hat on replacing Raya with Walton then why not the season ending injury to Cunningham? playing him over Bell would’ve netted us 7pts surely? Or what about narrowly missing out on Harrison Reed to Fulham? Surely he could’ve carried us home? The list is exhaustive.

The elephant in the room here is Dack. Our best player by miles! If we HAVE to play this game then his season ending injury is surely the reason we didn’t reach the top 6, right? He’s the most likely Rovers player to effect any game and he was out for 50% of the season.

The answer is of course that no one facet is the reason we fell 7pts short. But for you to point out that the loss of a VERY inconsistent Keeper for another VERY inconsistent keeper is THE reason for us not getting in the playoffs is...well... just wrong.

Walton conceded less goals than Raya did in the season before and had more clean sheets. Fact.

Rovers missed out on promotion for a whole host of reasons. Not replacing a decent goalie with a better one was a contributing factor, but 100% not the primary one.

IMO, that was never going to happen and pure window dressing.

If Mowbray really wanted him then surely he would have made his move when the window first opened and not left it until the window was virtually shut!

I also very much doubt Reed would have touched us with the proverbial sh1tty stick - who the hell wants to be told to learn their trade from Evans and Smallwood and played out of position nearly every game.

 

[Paul Mani]

5 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

So Rayas stats were how far ahead of Walton? They were almost exactly the same and Walton isn’t worth £10m! As I pointed out it is my opinion and if it’s different to yours so be it.

Raya, like any player is worth what someone is willing to pay. The Arsenal keeper coach loves him and they have the money. I’m genuinely happy for Raya. He’s a good keeper with potential so this is lucky break that many won’t get. 

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

You're entitled to your view. It is, however, a fact that Raya won the Golden Gloves with Brentford, last season. If you're crowing about a defence that conceded 63 goals, you're in far more of a murky hole than @Angry_Pirate .

It is fact that Walton was personally responsible for goals that cost us points. Mowbray would have slagged off Raya each and every time. He only did it once to Walton, presumably because Brighton told him not to. How many goals? My own feeling is that it was 10 goals and 10 points. It's the sort of stat @JoeH might have to hand. Like you, however, I don't feel comfortable pointing at one player and saying "you cost us promotion".

I provided one sided facts on purpose to prove how distorted this whole argument is.

The principle point of my post was to say that there is no one, single or primary reason for not getting in the top 6. So we agree on that. ??

[Paul Mani]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

IMO, that was never going to happen and pure window dressing.

If Mowbray really wanted him then surely he would have made his move when the window first opened and not left it until the window was virtually shut!

I also very much doubt Reed would have touched us with the proverbial sh1tty stick - who the hell wants to be told to learn their trade from Evans and Smallwood and played out of position nearly every game.

 

Missed the point completely.

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

You’re taking yourself down a dark, murky hypothetical hole there. Let’s get it right, there is no one reason why we didn’t go up last season. But if you are going to hang your hat on replacing Raya with Walton then why not the season ending injury to Cunningham? playing him over Bell would’ve netted us 7pts surely? Or what about narrowly missing out on Harrison Reed to Fulham? Surely he could’ve carried us home? The list is exhaustive.

The elephant in the room here is Dack. Our best player by miles! If we HAVE to play this game then his season ending injury is surely the reason we didn’t reach the top 6, right? He’s the most likely Rovers player to effect any game and he was out for 50% of the season.

The answer is of course that no one facet is the reason we fell 7pts short. But for you to point out that the loss of a VERY inconsistent Keeper for another VERY inconsistent keeper is THE reason for us not getting in the playoffs is...well... just wrong.

Walton conceded less goals than Raya did in the season before and had more clean sheets. Fact.

Rovers missed out on promotion for a whole host of reasons. Not replacing a decent goalie with a better one was a contributing factor, but 100% not the primary one.

That NEVER happened in the real world.

IF we ever took aim then we missed by a country mile.

Please stop with this tactic of rewriting history

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Missed the point completely.

Not at all.

You offered up missing out narrowly on Harrison Reed as one of the reasons for Rovers failing to get promotion.

Think you know there was virtually no chance that Reed would be back at Ewood for the reasons stated in my post.  IMO, Mowbray's management of Reed whilst he was here was appalling and because of that, we very likely missed out on an excellent player at Championship level who showed his worth at Fulham last season.

Edited September 23, 2020 by Mercer

[jw_]

I don't like to see individual players being singled out as the reason we failed to get promoted. We all know that the team carried more than a few personel that were lacking in a few departments of play and their failings there for all to see. Blaming one individual player is wrong as a few others also did not match up in many games.

The blame in my opinion is squarely down to TM as the buck stops with him, it was up to him to sort all the obvious problem instead of creating them with all the known wrong formations, players out of position, team favourites and many more that we are all aware of. They were his teams and his selections it was up to him to remedy the faults, he was the reason we did not get promoted not any individual player especially as he was the reason for the player being here in the first place.

As I said just my opinion. 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Can somebody point me to the transfer thread ?

[USABlue]

12 hours ago, tomphil said:

Difference was Raya would lose you 9 points but literally save you 7.

Walton would lose you 9 as well but only save you maybe 5.

That's the roulette wheel of these keepers. Pleased to say so far I prefer the new lad to both of those.

I was never a big Raya fan but I don't remember Walton pulling off too many worldies.  Raya made some memorable saves, which I have forgotten but he was better than Walton in that regard.  Waltons kicking was just as erratic.  Did not command his area any better and was at times way too slow releasing the ball.  Raya was better keeper but I wanted him replaced just with someonenbetter. 

[Guest]

Mowbray cost us top 6 last season. His decision to play Bennett over Nyambe for half the season was just as much to blame as signing Walton was, if not significantly more. Didn't Bennett give away something like 5/6 penalties last season? The 0-0's against Wigan and Stoke where we looked like we were holding out for draws. The team changing every single week. The 3/4 different formations we tried, sometimes in the same game. Losing at home to Luton and Charlton. Every single time we got close to the top 6 we shit out and played conservatively and the blame lied solely at TM's door for last season. Some promising signs this season so far but not getting carried away until we see that left back/CM signed and we win some pressure-cooker games. 

[joey_big_nose]

The feeling I'm getting is Venkys have been spooked by the Covid second wave and halted all spending.

[G Somerset Rover]

1 minute ago, joey_big_nose said:

The feeling I'm getting is Venkys have been spooked by the Covid second wave and halted all spending.

Everything certainly has gone very, very quiet. Very frustrating that yet again we got so far down the line with a player only for it to fall down at the final hurdle. Whatever the V’s role in our transfer activity, it ain’t working.

[PeteJD13]

7 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Everything certainly has gone very, very quiet. Very frustrating that yet again we got so far down the line with a player only for it to fall down at the final hurdle. Whatever the V’s role in our transfer activity, it ain’t working.

its not so much a second wave they are still on the first wave, over 5.65 million cases so with no income for the club they will have to put more money in than normal on this i cannot blame them for not spending. Maybe Tony should have thought about money when he was dishing out extra contracts to smallwood and co

[Paul Mellelieu]

10 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

its not so much a second wave they are still on the first wave, over 5.65 million cases so with no income for the club they will have to put more money in than normal on this i cannot blame them for not spending. Maybe Tony should have thought about money when he was dishing out extra contracts to smallwood and co

Yes, he should have thought about the pandemic just around the corner...

[1864roverite]

My final point on Raya, not one other club from the premiership came in for him and there are a good few clubs who need a better keeper! Arsenals link was solely down to the relationship with the keeper coach.

Anyhow where Nicko when you need a belly laugh in a cold Wednesday late summer morning??

Edited September 23, 2020 by 1864roverite

[tomphil]

46 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I was never a big Raya fan but I don't remember Walton pulling off too many worldies.  Raya made some memorable saves, which I have forgotten but he was better than Walton in that regard.  Waltons kicking was just as erratic.  Did not command his area any better and was at times way too slow releasing the ball.  Raya was better keeper but I wanted him replaced just with someonenbetter. 

I was in the keep camp but replace him as number 1 with an experienced keeper or someone with similar potential. That way we could see if he developed and he had better standards to train with and fight it out for number one.  He never had that here he just wasted time sat behind Steele then straight replaced him to learn on the job. Luckily for him that was in league 1 i think he'd have sank Jake Keane style thrown straight in the Championship then with no real back up.

Of course all that is easier said than done but if the clock could be wound right back i think it could have been handled a whole lot better. 

For now though if we got another million quid on top of the 3 and they've got someone capable finally in the sticks then it's best to draw a line under it.

[Sparks Rover]

54 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Raya made some memorable saves, which I have forgotten 

? memorable eh?

He made a load of complete cock ups too, and I've not forgotten....

Edited September 23, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[ben_the_beast]

Pleaaaaaase can everyone stop talking about Raya. He must have taken up a good 50 pages of this transfer thread. Just go on his own specific thread. Mods could you not start chucking Raya chat in there to help?

[tomphil]

30 minutes ago, PeteJD13 said:

its not so much a second wave they are still on the first wave, over 5.65 million cases so with no income for the club they will have to put more money in than normal on this i cannot blame them for not spending. Maybe Tony should have thought about money when he was dishing out extra contracts to smallwood and co

I think he was simply using up what was left in the budget at that point whilst it was there. Looking after his mates for sure he's very good at that with someone else's money.  Yes he needed to keep a squad together as they didn't know what was happening but to extend contracts for guys you told you were never going to use whatever and others who knew they were on their way doesn't sit well with me at all.

As iv'e said several times before going back to last summer all these little things add up when you then down line find yourself a few quid short to sign someone else.

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

The feeling I'm getting is Venkys have been spooked by the Covid second wave and halted all spending.

I dont believe that for one minute.

I'm not up to speed with what is happening in India with Coronavirus but imagine the situation there is very different to that in the UK. Their business interests are likely unaffected by what happens in the UK. 

The club has had no income since February yet carried on spending.

I think they already decided they weren't putting funds into the transfer kitty. The money spent on Kaminski and Ayala will have come from funds already allocated to the wage bill and saved since July by getting shut of Downing, Graham, Tosin and the others.

I very much doubt they know anything about it or the situation with crowds.

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Can somebody point me to the transfer thread ?

Tony Mowbray's trouser pocket or Waggott's wallet

[tomphil]

I genuinely think they'd still fund the club if crowds were ruled out altogether as long as there was tv coverage and an income from that. Might even suit them the way they do things they'd just micromanage it from India with the manager and coaches over here.

Out would go swaggo and everyone in office here and the agents would sub contract the needed official staff as and when needed.

Come to think of it we've already had that model !

 

 

[47er]

4 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

Rovers missed out on promotion for a whole host of reasons.

Yes but he major one imo was the manager. His transfer deals, his baffling selections, tactics, subs, playing players out of position etc.

If there was any one reason, it was at his door.

[BigBar]

Ryan Manning would be a massive upgrade on Bell. Surely a fee can be produced that suits both parties given his contract situation. He is 24 so at a right age too.

These last minute collapses with deals needs to end. We have missed out on quality players as a result of sitting there while other clubs pinch them from under our noses. Its a massive problem.

[Guest]

Correct me if I'm wrong, I thought the story that we were close to a player was about Garner who opted for Watford instead? Doesn't seem like we necessarily dropped the ball, they're a far more attractive proposition. Not saying our transfer dealings aren't frustrating but I don't think Garner was an example of a poor structure.