Summer Transfer Window

[Paul Mani]

53 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Where is this evidence of multiple bids from Utd? So now the anti-Raya brigade are trying to say that this whole transfer saga was made up so that it fits their own opinions?

Just like a load of “pro Raya” brigade, last seen basking in the ‘I told you so’s’ when he was supposedly on the brink of a PL move are now less visible to the board....That’s just life on a message board mate.

Raya was a decent keeper for us. Excellent in some areas, pretty shocking in others. He’s still young and has time to correct his errors but £3m and a sell on last summer (after a very inconsistent season) was imo good business. At £10m, Arsenal we’re having their pants pulled down I believe and someone has realised and pulled the plug.

The problem wasn’t selling Raya. For all those re-writing history about him being top class, he wasn’t. The problem is that we didn’t replace him. Had we signed Kaminski last summer for £500k it would’ve been seen as a master stroke.

 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Paul Mani

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Just like a load of “pro Raya” brigade, last seen basking in the ‘I told you so’s’ when he was supposedly on the brink of a PL move are now less visible to the board....That’s just life on a message board mate.

Raya was a decent keeper for us. Excellent in some areas, pretty shocking in others. He’s still young and has time to correct his errors but £3m and a sell on last summer (after a very inconsistent season) was imo good business. At £10m, Arsenal we’re having their pants pulled down I believe and someone has realised and pulled the plug.

The problem wasn’t selling Raya. For all those re-writing history about him being top class, he wasn’t. The problem is that we didn’t replace him. Had we signed Kaminski last summer for £500k it would’ve been seen as a master stroke.

 

Whether he moves to Arsenal or not - the Pro Raya brigade have already been proven right that it was foolish to sell him for that amount due to the interest and bid itself.

Brentford stood firm more like - they wanted him back on loan as part of the deal. Arsenal were more than prepared to pay 10 mil plus hence why bid that in the first place?

I do not think I have seen any of the pro Raya brigade rewriting history saying he was top class - you are rewriting unwritten history there mate. Most concede that he had ups and downs here and has errors in him. Most said he had the potential to be top class, a potential that Brentford and now Arsenal have seen. 

Anyway, even I am bored of discussing it now - I think we have all made our opinions clear. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by JacknOry

[Mercer]

17 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

But it hasn't tho. to put in place such an operation takes time and money. The operation only just started in the last 12 months and when we appointed Bruno Reis as our Chief European Scout to run the scouting Europe Operation. People like yourself expect instant results instead of understanding that this European Scouting Network is here for the long term future of the club. 

So what have they achieved in 12 months?

IMO, in terms of scores on the doors, virtually nothing as I am pretty certain Kaminski was not their baby but rather a result of a club / player bust up.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Mercer said:

So what have they achieved in 12 months?

IMO, in terms of scores on the doors, virtually nothing as I am pretty certain Kaminski was not their baby but rather a result of a club / player bust up.

Yes and if I didn’t have a d*ck I wouldn’t be a bloke.

Kaminski has signed, he came from Europe.

You can context it however you like but it doesn’t detract from the fact. Your “virtually nothing” is just an opinion. In terms of scores on the doors, they’ve done two. Holtby and Kaminski. 

[Mercer]

11 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Yes and if I didn’t have a d*ck I wouldn’t be a bloke.

Kaminski has signed, he came from Europe.

You can context it however you like but it doesn’t detract from the fact. Your “virtually nothing” is just an opinion. In terms of scores on the doors, they’ve done two. Holtby and Kaminski. 

Holtby was a 'known' player and as I recall a free agent, so I think to attribute his signing to the Euro scouting team is one helluva stretch!  I've little doubt all the spadework was done by Holtby's agent.

I've stated my views that, IMO, Kaminski was not a Euro scouting team 'find'.

I'm pretty certain most fans are looking for our Euro scouting team to find the next Berg, Samba, Nzonzi etc.  At this stage, IMO, they have simply not delivered. 

Edited October 3, 2020 by Mercer

[Lucimo]

I'm no fan of Mowbray but I actually think we got a good deal for Raya. He was a great shotstopper but the rest of his game required work. Until he moves for money way in excess of 3m I don't think we can argue we f**ked up, and I'm not sure that will happen. For what it's worth I think Arsenal were interested but it seems to me they weren't paying 10m and never had any intention. If they were prepared to shell out that much why settle on an alternative valued at 1.5m. Only my opinion, but I can't see Raya ever being sold for a fee wildly in excess of what we sold him for. In fact, if the sell on clause is profit based, which they usually are I doubt we will get any income from a future sale. 

[blondie]

In regards to Kaminski's situation, presumably enough gathered info was necessary to evaluate a purchase. 

[TimmyJimmy]

Just now, Mercer said:

Holtby was a 'known' player and as I recall a free agent, so I think to attribute his signing to the Euro scouting team is one helluva stretch!  I've little doubt all the spade work was done by Holtby's agent.

I've stated my views that, IMO, Kaminski was not a Euro scouting team 'find'.

I'm pretty certain most fans are looking for our Euro scouting team to find the next Berg, Samba, Nzonzi etc.  At this stage, IMO, they have simply not delivered. 

But once found we have to pay for them. Often there's the rub. Too expensive, too big a sign-on fee, too big a wage demand, too many onerous demands to be written into the contract, too high an agents fee ... so many reasons for the player not to appear in the 'signed' column and be visible to us.

The scouts job is to produce candidates, the rest is down to the realities of life. The two players to emerge from the process are good ones and IMO show the network has value and legs.

Be patient and let people do their work. Time is nature's way of stopping everything happening in one big crunch ?

[Mercer]

Just now, blondie said:

In regards to Kaminski's situation, presumably enough gathered info was necessary to evaluate a purchase. 

Come on, it's not rocket science!!!

Kaminski had spent the last four seasons as a number one goalkeeper in the Belgium First Division and had made about 150 appearances as number one including 15 or so in the Europa League.

IF, there had been a Premier League number one goalkeeper available who had made 150 appearances over the last four years and was available at a knockdown price following a bust up between club / player, clubs would have been all over it!

IMO, Kaminski was a 'no brainer' and not a product or 'discovery' of our European scouting team.

[HowieFive0]

Just now, Mercer said:

Come on, it's not rocket science!!!

Kaminski had spent the last four seasons as a number one goalkeeper in the Belgium First Division and had made about 150 appearances as number one including 15 or so in the Europa League.

IF, there had been a Premier League number one goalkeeper available who had made 150 appearances over the last four years and was available at a knockdown price following a bust up between club / player, clubs would have been all over it!

IMO, Kaminski was a 'no brainer' and not a product or 'discovery' of our European scouting team.

So how come all these other clubs were not all over Kaminski Merce if it was a no brainer  ? ..do they not have so called European scouting teams ?? Or did we do a bit of homework on him ??

[philipl]

Just now, Mercer said:

Come on, it's not rocket science!!!

Kaminski had spent the last four seasons as a number one goalkeeper in the Belgium First Division and had made about 150 appearances as number one including 15 or so in the Europa League.

IF, there had been a Premier League number one goalkeeper available who had made 150 appearances over the last four years and was available at a knockdown price following a bust up between club / player, clubs would have been all over it!

IMO, Kaminski was a 'no brainer' and not a product or 'discovery' of our European scouting team.

Still had to have boots on the ground with both the Kaminski and Holtby deals. First to pick up on the vibes then be there to influence them. 

Remember Hotby's tweets about coming to Rovers?- somebody did a great job selling him on coming to Blackburn.

I an very much in the pro-Raya camp but (VERY early days) I am glad we have Kaminski

[Mercer]

Just now, TimmyJimmy said:

But once found we have to pay for them. Often there's the rub. Too expensive, too big a sign-on fee, too big a wage demand, too many onerous demands to be written into the contract, too high an agents fee ... so many reasons for the player not to appear in the 'signed' column and be visible to us.

The scouts job is to produce candidates, the rest is down to the realities of life. The two players to emerge from the process are good ones and IMO show the network has value and legs.

Be patient and let people do their work. Time is nature's way of stopping everything happening in one big crunch ?

If you really think Holtby and Kaminski are products of our European scouting team then I think you've been taken in by what I think is Mowbray's bullsh1t.

Mowbray and Waggott have to demonstrate to Pune that the cost of the Euro scouting team is worthwhile and if they can attribute any signing from Europe to the set up then they will do.

I hope they turn up a Samba, a Nzonzi etc soon and when they do then they really will be cutting the mustard. 

[Mercer]

Just now, philipl said:

Still had to have boots on the ground with both the Kaminski and Holtby deals. First to pick up on the vibes then be there to influence them. 

Remember Hotby's tweets about coming to Rovers?- somebody did a great job selling him on coming to Blackburn.

I an very much in the pro-Raya camp but (VERY early days) I am glad we have Kaminski

Any agent worth their salt would have been creating a lot of noise on behalf of Kaminski and Holtby.

Maybe there were not too many clubs that fancied either player.

Let's face it, according to Mowbray, we've lost at least one potential European signing to another club so perhaps you are overplaying the influence.

I think it's great we have a European resource but they need to deliver real tangible results like we've seen with the likes of Brenford and Norwich.  If and when that happens, I would be delighted.

[Glosrover]

16 hours ago, unleaded said:

I find that hard to believe when every Euro Garage sells lottery tickets and other gambling items .....

That’s making money, not spending it.............different mindset, different morals

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Whether he moves to Arsenal or not - the Pro Raya brigade have already been proven right that it was foolish to sell him for that amount due to the interest and bid itself.

 

What utter twaddle!

fact there is no evidence to show a bid other than newspaper speculation!

fact Raya has shown himself to be inconsistent as a keeper.

fact he is not worth £10m otherwise if arsenal had bid it would have been done and dusted even if there was a loan back for a season so again this dissolves any thought if arsenals real interest.

fact arsenal went and bought someone else.

fact no one has been proven right other than rovers nabbing £3m and a sell on clause because that was the going rate at the time.

my opinion, you have yours!

[arbitro]

The Raya story smacks of an agent doing his job. Get a move from Rovers to a club with a reputation for player development, create a link to Arsenal cleverly underpinned by the Brentford goalkeeper coach going there and hey presto - a shiny new, greatly improved contract for his player. He has played them all like a fiddle.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

55 minutes ago, Mercer said:

If you really think Holtby and Kaminski are products of our European scouting team team

I think most people on this board knew about Holtby, but I'd imagine Kaminski was indeed scouted by the Euro scouting team. It would be the sensible conclusion to make. 

[Spankus Munky]

23 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

What utter twaddle!

fact there is no evidence to show a bid other than newspaper speculation!

fact Raya has shown himself to be inconsistent as a keeper.

fact he is not worth £10m otherwise if arsenal had bid it would have been done and dusted even if there was a loan back for a season so again this dissolves any thought if arsenals real interest.

fact arsenal went and bought someone else.

fact no one has been proven right other than rovers nabbing £3m and a sell on clause because that was the going rate at the time.

my opinion, you have yours!

I'm sorry you are right!

No transfer ever completed has only ever had evidence that only comes from newspaper speculation...

Of course Brentford will accept a £10m bid for any of their players no matter who they are, heck if Arsenal want you they can just name the price they want to pay and all clubs fold...

How could we be so blind... Oh wait ?

 

Just because when we issue a hands-off warning/not for sale stance we end up selling don't mean other clubs do. Let's take Brentford for example Benrahma is for sale at the right price with numerous clubs publicly declaring interest in signing him, still at Brentford though... why is that do you think?

[Spankus Munky]

27 minutes ago, arbitro said:

The Raya story smacks of an agent doing his job. Get a move from Rovers to a club with a reputation for player development, create a link to Arsenal cleverly underpinned by the Brentford goalkeeper coach going there and hey presto - a shiny new, greatly improved contract for his player. He has played them all like a fiddle.

yep, because all it takes is an agent claiming a link to a club to bolster his clients contract... Do you have any idea how stupid this sounds? If it was that easy every agent would be doing it.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

I think they'd only offer a new contract if there was genuine interest. They are protecting their asset (Raya) and making sure they get even more money next summer when another bid comes in. 

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Spankus Munky said:

yep, because all it takes is an agent claiming a link to a club to bolster his clients contract... Do you have any idea how stupid this sounds? If it was that easy every agent would be doing it.

That's a bit insulting for having an opinion on something none of us really know the truth about.

And by the way lots of agents do use that kind of leverage to get moves or new deals for their clients. That's their job and they will do it by fair means or foul. I'm not sure if you were around when Samba was but he seemed to get a new deal every year to stop him from leaving. I know that because his agent told me.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/transfer-window/agents-leaks-denials-and-spoofers-the-evolution-of-the-football-transfer-process-31470537.html

Edited October 3, 2020 by arbitro

[islander200]

Charlie Austin in talks with Derby.

Jota is now a free agent after his contract was mutually terminated at Villa

[Spankus Munky]

Just now, arbitro said:

That's a bit insulting for having an opinion on something none of us really know the truth about.

And by the way lots of agents do use that kind of leverage to get moves or new deals for their clients. That's their job and they will do it by fair means or foul. I'm not sure if you were around when Samba was but he seemed to get a new deal every year to stop him from leaving. I know that because his agent told me.

You take it in whatever way you want. And using Samba and Venkys at a time where they were absolutely clueless with an agent running the show as a yardstick is pointless, you are proving my point that we are not an example to use as a club being run well, especially at that time. Brentford on the other hand are not exactly pumping contracts out to all and sundry when an agent claims interest in his client, if they want to protect their investment from a club who has submitted an interest to the club however...

[arbitro]

Just now, Spankus Munky said:

You take it in whatever way you want. And using Samba and Venkys at a time where they were absolutely clueless with an agent running the show as a yardstick is pointless, you are proving my point that we are not an example to use as a club being run well, especially at that time. Brentford on the other hand are not exactly pumping contracts out to all and sundry when an agent claims interest in his client, if they want to protect their investment from a club who has submitted an interest to the club however...

Samba was given new contracts before Venkys rocked up. The truth is nobody knows what the real story behind the Raya to Arsenal story barring a few individuals.

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Mercer said:

Holtby was a 'known' player and as I recall a free agent, so I think to attribute his signing to the Euro scouting team is one helluva stretch!  I've little doubt all the spadework was done by Holtby's agent.

Did Holtby come from Europe? Yes.

Done. I don't care whether he was known. It is a fact.