Summer Transfer Window

[only2garners]

It's on the Championship thread Hoochie...........

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The majority of recent windows have included big blunders so I suppose the benchmark is low, but that is a big statement.

I can't think of a better window. 2019/20 was not too bad but I think we overspent on Sam Gallagher. 2018/19 was okay but we overspent on Ben Brereton. 2017/18 was a good summer window, Dack came in cheap, but also some big wages for League One on Peter Whittingham which was a silly one in hindsight given the actual game time he offered.

This window we haven't sold any players of any note
We have filled the defensive gap with Ayala
We have filled the goalkeeper position with TWO permanent signings
We have found a little gem in Dolan on a free from Preston who's going to be a star

Whether it was all stumbled upon or whether it's part of a big master plan, I still think it's one of our best windows in a long time. I don't see how that's a big statement to make.

[USABlue]

So how did this one circumvent our Euro scouting, how did we sign him in spite of rather than because of?

[simongarnerisgod]

nothing to worry about playing forest,they`ve been in disarray ever since their play off meltdown,going to take a long time to sort them out

[Guest]

Hughton appointed at Forest...

[islander200]

Chris Hughton new Forest manager 

[1864roverite]

I am still wondering how this lad got to Rovers without nicko catching the whole story ??

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Hughton appointed at Forest...

Excellent appointment - if anyone can sort out Forest, he can.

Knows the game inside out as his record testifies.

IMO, in a different league to Mowbray as a manager.

 

[Darwen Rover 007]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Chris Hughton new Forest manager 

Typical, gonna be tough on Saturday now! 

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

Excellent appointment - if anyone can sort out Forest, he can.

Knows the game inside out as his record testifies.

IMO, in a different league to Mowbray as a manager.

 

i agree,however like i said,forest are a mess and he needs probably a season or two to get them right,no way will he get that time,surprised he took the job tbh

[Paul Mani]

55 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

1st paragraph, what you mean like Raya?

2nd paragraph, game of opinions, Armstrong isn't anywhere near as good as Watkins imo but even if we did manage to sell him for 28m why would you be happy with only spending slightly over half that on reinforcements?

Dack is the one who if fully fit I'd be looking for a Watkins size fee for. That is I would have been if had we not cocked up his contract situation and had it not been likely that we will either be forced to sell him for a cut price next summer, or watch him walking for free the one after that.

Eh? Raya wasn’t sold from under Mowbray. He didn’t rate him.

Opinions on Watkins and Arma. My point was, i would only consider selling for around that mark based on the reasons I provided.

As for the reinvestment figure. Just being realistic. We aren’t getting 100% of any sale to reinvest. 

[simongarnerisgod]

Just now, JoeH said:

Seems an odd/unprovoked reaction to Forest announcing a new manager. How do you compare the two? What makes him better?

Mowbray has 256 career wins
Hughton has 167 career wins
Both managers have won one major honor
Mowbray's win % is 52%
Hughton's win % is 43%

Maybe you mean their transfer records/pulling ability, but all the same I don't understand how this conclusion can be so easily come to.

you can quote as many stats as you like,hughton is a better manager in every department

[Guest]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

you can quote as many stats as you like,hughton is a better manager in every department

Why? There must be something which makes that the case for you?

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I can't think of a better window. 2019/20 was not too bad but I think we overspent on Sam Gallagher. 2018/19 was okay but we overspent on Ben Brereton. 2017/18 was a good summer window, Dack came in cheap, but also some big wages for League One on Peter Whittingham which was a silly one in hindsight given the actual game time he offered.

This window we haven't sold any players of any note
We have filled the defensive gap with Ayala
We have filled the goalkeeper position with TWO permanent signings
We have found a little gem in Dolan on a free from Preston who's going to be a star

Whether it was all stumbled upon or whether it's part of a big master plan, I still think it's one of our best windows in a long time. I don't see how that's a big statement to make.

My point was more that at this stage we dont necessarily know that whilst the spots may have been filled, or hypothetically in your scenario, we dont know yet if they are going to fill them adequately. The main one who we can be surest of based on knowledge is Ayala. Kaminski is still in the questionable stage, I dont mean that negatively, but hes only played 5 games in which hes had barely anything to do. What he has done has looked good so promising signs there. The sub keeper, yes hes permanent, but none of us have ever heard of him! Only a select few have of the LB, with mixed reviews, and the loan is unnamed. Dolan, a very bright bonus ball but again so early. Its not me criticising the summer business you mention, its just that especially signing players from abroad, we have no idea of their success.

I think that all of Mowbrays main transfer windows have been mixed. His main success has been more the use of the players he already had, especially in the promotion season or indeed youngsters, Travis being the best recent example.

Spending 5m on Gallagher massively tarnishes last summer. So does the goalkeeping debarcle. Holtby and Johnson didnt have particularly impressive seasons either, but may come good a year later. At the moment, they are under ok. Downing and Adarabioyo for a year were very shrewd. So a mix.

Summer before, another disaster in Brereton. Davenport hasnt started a game, failure. Rothwell has flattered to deceive throughout, at best hes in the middle. Armstrong has turned into a bargain. Reed a good loan albeit misused, Palmer an awful one. So mixed. 

And as you say, the one prior promotion, like the one the following year had a bargain, brilliant signing. Also Smallwood was very good for a year. Lots of poor signings otherwise, Samuel at 500k, Gladwin, Hart, Caddis etc.

I mainly took issue to concluding so soon that the window was the best whe its so early and players we had never heard of who have not played are included in such a statement.

19 minutes ago, USABlue said:

So how did this one circumvent our Euro scouting, how did we sign him in spite of rather than because of?

Wasnt that only said by chief wind up merchant Mercer?

Edited October 6, 2020 by roversfan99

[Guest]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I mainly took issue to concluding so soon that the window was the best whe its so early and players we had never heard of who have not played are included in such a statement.

17 minutes ago, USABlue said:

I think outside of whether Kaminski is a top goalkeeper, the signature of two permanent long terms GK's is a positive etc.. These things make it the best window in a while

[Mercer]

2 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Seems an odd/unprovoked reaction to Forest announcing a new manager. How do you compare the two? What makes him better?

Mowbray has 256 career wins
Hughton has 167 career wins
Both managers have won one major honor
Mowbray's win % is 52%
Hughton's win % is 43%

Maybe you mean their transfer records/pulling ability, but all the same I don't understand how this conclusion can be so easily come to.

Hughton took Newcastle back to PL and had them top ten at Christmas until Ashley, IMO, unfairly sacked him.

In his only season at Brum, they finished top six.

Took Brighton to PL and kept them up until they sacked him in their second season back in PL.

Mowbray took WBA up to PL but they bombed and came straight back.

Be serious.

[simongarnerisgod]

Just now, JoeH said:

Why? There must be something which makes that the case for you?

better man management,better tactician,better in the transfer market and been steady in the premier league,he was unlucky to be sacked at norwich and brighton,im`e not sure what those two chairmen want,it`s gone completely **** up for norwich and brighton are no better off,in fact they are worse defensively

[only2garners]

12 minutes ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Typical, gonna be tough on Saturday now! 

We'll be fine - can't see us losing this weekend. The following Saturday when we play Forest might be different though.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

I think outside of whether Kaminski is a top goalkeeper, the signature of two permanent long terms GK's is a positive etc.. These things make it the best window in a while

I agree that permanent signings are preferable any day. But surely its not just that, its no use if they turned out crap! Walton permanently wouldnt be positive.

One is totally unknown to everyone. On Kaminski we have a bit more knowledge and a start of 5 games that can make is very optimistic.

The one im excited about is Ayala still. Hes one that we know what we are getting, well almost certain.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

better man management,better tactician,better in the transfer market and been steady in the premier league,he was unlucky to be sacked at norwich and brighton,im`e not sure what those two chairmen want,it`s gone completely **** up for norwich and brighton are no better off,in fact they are worse defensively

How can you know if he has better man management than Mowbray without being involved in the set up yourself?
How can somebody be better in the transfer market? Surely that relies on what funds you have more than anything else?

At the end of the day for me, it's very VERY difficult to call one manager undeniably better than another when every single job in football is different. If we judge them at their own clubs, on what they've achieved as coaches, I think they're on very similar levels. Other things on top of that, like his "Man Management" skills, are completely personal opinion and far from a factual barometer than can be used universally.

[roversfan99]

I definitely dont think you can use win percentages as a tool. Managers all have their own unique CV in terms of the teams they have managed, the resources they have had etc. You can never make like for like comparisons.

[simongarnerisgod]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

How can you know if he has better man management than Mowbray without being involved in the set up yourself?
How can somebody be better in the transfer market? Surely that relies on what funds you have more than anything else?

At the end of the day for me, it's very VERY difficult to call one manager undeniably better than another when every single job in football is different. If we judge them at their own clubs, on what they've achieved as coaches, I think they're on very similar levels. Other things on top of that, like his "Man Management" skills, are completely personal opinion and far from a factual barometer than can be used universally.

do a poll of independent football supporters and ask them who the better manager is,i guarantee it won`t be mowbray,hughton is on a level above him

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Seems an odd/unprovoked reaction to Forest announcing a new manager. How do you compare the two? What makes him better?

Mowbray has 256 career wins
Hughton has 167 career wins
Both managers have won one major honor
Mowbray's win % is 52%
Hughton's win % is 43%

Maybe you mean their transfer records/pulling ability, but all the same I don't understand how this conclusion can be so easily come to.

Stats without context are meaningless. Hughton has got promotion to the Prem twice, with Newcastle and Brighton. He also got to the play-offs with Birmingham.

Mowbray has one promotion from the Championship. 

Mowbrays win % is 42% according to Wiki. Hughton's is 40.6%.

Mowbray has also over managed 250 more games than Hughton which explains the career wins stats. 

[OssyLad]

52 minutes ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Typical, gonna be tough on Saturday now! 

Don’t think we’ll lose draw or win on Saturday to be honest pal 

[chaddyrovers]

36 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I agree that permanent signings are preferable any day. But surely its not just that, its no use if they turned out crap! Walton permanently wouldnt be positive.

One is totally unknown to everyone. On Kaminski we have a bit more knowledge and a start of 5 games that can make is very optimistic.

The one im excited about is Ayala still. Hes one that we know what we are getting, well almost certain.

Thats why recruitment, scouting and data analysis departments have been invested in by the club, so we are scouting players properly and been less reliant on agents suggestions like under previous managers in the past. Watching games from a lot of European leagues so we know the players qualities in depth.