Summer Transfer Window

[phili]

The overdraft used to be secured against Gate Receipts and TV income, not sure what it is secured against now.

Every time so far we have hit the £15m limit, there is a £5m to £10m share issue which pays most of it off. So long as Venky's can continue to do that there is no issue. If they can't then player sales are required. Looking at it so far this summer, not renewing the out of contract players is probably saving us £50k+ per week. I would expect a few player sales before we bring in our first signing.

[Richard Oakley]

4 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Who would get into bed besides Venkys though and who would they allow ?  Nobody except close pals of theirs i'd imagine.

Who puts the money in for these investment type signings though would be of interest to me .

As for wages i think they more or less guarantee to cover the playing side but club staff in Blackburn might come out of different takings. Not sure it's all one big pot but may be wrong.

Seneca did, once. The question is how desperate are Venkys, now? A scion of a richer family owns Pune FC

Yes, Venkys have guaranteed to cover wages in the past. I haven't seen anything that says they've guaranteed wages in our 2020 financial year. 

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, phili said:

The overdraft used to be secured against Gate Receipts and TV income, not sure what it is secured against now.

Every time so far we have hit the £15m limit, there is a £5m to £10m share issue which pays most of it off. So long as Venky's can continue to do that there is no issue. If they can't then player sales are required. Looking at it so far this summer, not renewing the out of contract players is probably saving us £50k+ per week. I would expect a few player sales before we bring in our first signing.

Maybe secured against book value of the players ?  Hence why they always make a big deal of 'getting value into the team'.

[tomphil]

Just now, Richard Oakley said:

Seneca did, once. The question is how desperate are Venkys, now? A scion of a richer family owns Pune FC

Yes, Venkys have guaranteed to cover wages in the past. I haven't seen anything that says they've guaranteed wages in our 2020 financial year. 

The notes in the accounts and just signing them off is probably all that is required.

Doesn't mean anything if the shit truly hits the fan of course and they can't pay. Won't pay surely opens up legal avenues if guarantees have been signed off though surely.

[47er]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

I'm not assuming? I'm merely saying in a perfect world that everybody would sell Dack to have a keeper, Tosin, Cunningham and Whiteman. I know within the reality of Rovers that this isn't likely.

In a perfect world Mowbray wouldn't be manager. You quoted a number of players that would make a difference if they came in. Anyone could do that! We all know the team needs improving and we can all think of any number of players that would improve us significantly. So what? The sale of Raya actually happened but the replacement to improve the team didn't.

In the end I have no faith anymore that this transfer window will be any better than any others Mowbray's inflicted on us.

 

[47er]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

I called him a shit keeper plenty last season and last night vindicated me....he's a disaster waiting to happen.  Looks nice with easy shits to stop, but he's got a mental block.

That's unfair, he's made some wonderful saves for them and he did for us too.

[LeftWinger]

1 hour ago, phili said:

Raya would never have made a first team appearance with us, with the strength of goalkeepers we used to have. I think he is probably of the same level as Alan Fettis or John Filan and shows how far we have fallen under Venky's.

Absolute sacrilege to even mention Fettis and Filan in the same breath.

Fettis was a terrible keeper. Filan was a very good one. He replaced Flowers in 97/98 and was very good and was player of the season the year after (albeit in a relegated side).

[phili]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

Absolute sacrilege to even mention Fettis and Filan in the same breath.

Fettis was a terrible keeper. Filan was a very good one. He replaced Flowers in 97/98 and was very good and was player of the season the year after (albeit in a relegated side).

Apologies, i was just trying to explain how far we have fallen. Maybe a better example is he is on a similar level to Frank Fielding.

 

[RoqueSantaBlues]

Weren't we looking to bring Frank Fielding back last year?

[Exiled_Rover]

40 minutes ago, phili said:

The overdraft used to be secured against Gate Receipts and TV income, not sure what it is secured against now.

Every time so far we have hit the £15m limit, there is a £5m to £10m share issue which pays most of it off. So long as Venky's can continue to do that there is no issue. If they can't then player sales are required. Looking at it so far this summer, not renewing the out of contract players is probably saving us £50k+ per week. I would expect a few player sales before we bring in our first signing.

Not gonna lie, I'd take a 12 point penalty and Rovers being bought by a local consortium right now. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Not gonna lie, I'd take a 12 point penalty and Rovers being bought by a local consortium right now. 

Madness. One way ticket to League 1 and possibly below. Unfortunately. 

[rigger]

25 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Not gonna lie, I'd take a 12 point penalty and Rovers being bought by a local consortium right now. 

I doubt there is a local consortium willing to invest the money. Even in a hypothetical world.

[phili]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Madness. One way ticket to League 1 and possibly below. Unfortunately. 

Brentford have shown that it is not a foregone conclusion that we would be relegated to League 1. What will we be saying next year if Ainsworth gets Wycombe into the playoffs and Tony improves us to let's say 9th. Would we all be happy with that?

Bring in a new manager who can wheel, deal and motivate and we stand half a chance.

If we look at our history, no manager we have employed has ever needed 3 years and a slow build to get us no where. The last 2 season have been missed opportunities to get into the playoffs, with a slightly better manager we would have been in the playoffs both seasons.

If we look at all the issues following relegation that Bowyer had to deal with, it took him 1 season to create a promotion chasing squad with less funds than Tony has received. I just don't get this slow build mentality at all as it never works. Cardiff and Swansea were both below us at Christmas, how did they both finish in the playoffs this season?

[BG1492]

4 minutes ago, phili said:

Brentford have shown that it is not a foregone conclusion that we would be relegated to League 1. What will we be saying next year if Ainsworth gets Wycombe into the playoffs and Tony improves us to let's say 9th. Would we all be happy with that?

Bring in a new manager who can wheel, deal and motivate and we stand half a chance.

If we look at our history, no manager we have employed has ever needed 3 years and a slow build to get us no where. The last 2 season have been missed opportunities to get into the playoffs, with a slightly better manager we would have been in the playoffs both seasons.

If we look at all the issues following relegation that Bowyer had to deal with, it took him 1 season to create a promotion chasing squad with less funds than Tony has received. I just don't get this slow build mentality at all as it never works. Cardiff and Swansea were both below us at Christmas, how did they both finish in the playoffs this season?

Have to agree. The slow building process is just to try and keep pressure off himself. You could say Swansea are building after losing Mcburnie, Ayew and James last summer but they still managed a top 6 spot.

Although I do have a feeling that if we don’t reach the play offs this season he will walk away. 

[rigger]

10 minutes ago, phili said:

Brentford have shown that it is not a foregone conclusion that we would be relegated to League 1. What will we be saying next year if Ainsworth gets Wycombe into the playoffs and Tony improves us to let's say 9th. Would we all be happy with that?

Bring in a new manager who can wheel, deal and motivate and we stand half a chance.

If we look at our history, no manager we have employed has ever needed 3 years and a slow build to get us no where. The last 2 season have been missed opportunities to get into the playoffs, with a slightly better manager we would have been in the playoffs both seasons.

If we look at all the issues following relegation that Bowyer had to deal with, it took him 1 season to create a promotion chasing squad with less funds than Tony has received. I just don't get this slow build mentality at all as it never works. Cardiff and Swansea were both below us at Christmas, how did they both finish in the playoffs this season?

What has that got to do with a twelve point deduction?

[phili]

Just now, rigger said:

What has that got to do with a twelve point deduction?

A 12 point deduction is not a foregone conclusion that we would be relegated. Also the loss of Venky's is also not a foregone conclusion that we would not be able to compete with other teams, infact probably quite the contrary

[roversfan99]

On 04/08/2020 at 12:56, JoeH said:

The suggestion that Travis and Evans are poor on the ball is statistically incorrect when compared with the other teams in our division and the midfield duo's we've had at the club in recent CH seasons. 

Jason Lowe and Danny Guthrie are significantly worse than Lewis Travis and Bradley Johnson, yet had nearly 10% more possession in that 2016 side than our current side.

We average just 44% possession in 2020, yet four years ago, with the likes of Lowe in the side, we averaged 52%. I think that's very telling. Passive possession means nothing, in terms of attacking possession we are now in 2020 much superior. Key passes, positive "through" balls, forward dribbles and shots on target are all well up from 2016/17.

You see it's not really about basic possession. If we wanted to have 51% possession we'd have to revert to playing around the back like we did with those crap players in the side. It's actually about "positive" possession (hard to describe). The data shows that our points, win% and goals scored are all significantly up, with much less possession of the ball, because we get the ball forward much faster now.

I don't believe when Mowbray talks about dominating the ball he really means let's get the possession metric up, I think he means being much more potent with the ball in the final third. Playing in and around their box, toying with other teams like your West Brom and Leeds United's of the world.

Just going back to your detailed analysis featuring graphs from yesterday, it all seems to be fairly worthless. It seems that it was all theorised on the assumption that we have had far less possession than we actually have.

Todays Lancashire Telegraph:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18628623.learn-rovers-plans-summer-transfers/

"The stats would back up Mowbray’s claim, the top four teams in the division all had the highest average possession. With 52.4 per cent, Rovers came in seventh, boosted by their post-lockdown approach, up from 50.5 per cent in 2018/19."

 

 

[rigger]

1 minute ago, phili said:

A 12 point deduction is not a foregone conclusion that we would be relegated. Also the loss of Venky's is also not a foregone conclusion that we would not be able to compete with other teams, infact probably quite the contrary

But it makes it more likely 

[Richard Oakley]

Just now, rigger said:

But it makes it more likely 

Yes, if a transfer ban accompanies it.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Unless you are premier league then the whole face of football transfers and money has changed forever. The days of huge wages are over the days of asking big fees for overrated players are over. Now is the time we will see managers in the EFL warm their wages wheeling and dealing us the way forward freebies and loans. If you have a diamond then it is the way of the football that they will be sold to the highest bidder. Rovers are a selling club we have to get used to it. So if we see a player sold it’s good business and the model we will have to get used to!

What is a selling club though? 

One that is at risk of losing its best players to clubs in higher divisions? Fine, I can accept that. That's life in the Championship. Nobody I've ever come across has any issue with us reluctantly allowing players to take a step up, getting the best deal possible and reinvesting the money to improve the club.

In that sense everyone at this level is a selling club.

Or is it existing purely to accommodate and try to polish up potential by giving players Championship minutes purely so they can be moved on again at a profit within a couple of seasons, to the first club that shows interest, even to sides around us in the table at a poor price, with the needs of the team, manager, fans or players an irrelevance just to help pay some bills with no reinvestment or improvement to be had and no other purpose to our existence?

Well that's not OK and not acceptable but unfortunately I think that is what we are. We shouldn't be.

[islander200]

Just now, JHRover said:

What is a selling club though? 

One that is at risk of losing its best players to clubs in higher divisions? Fine, I can accept that. That's life in the Championship. Nobody I've ever come across has any issue with us reluctantly allowing players to take a step up, getting the best deal possible and reinvesting the money to improve the club.

In that sense everyone at this level is a selling club.

Or is it existing purely to accommodate and try to polish up potential by giving players Championship minutes purely so they can be moved on again at a profit within a couple of seasons, to the first club that shows interest, even to sides around us in the table at a poor price, with the needs of the team, manager, fans or players an irrelevance just to help pay some bills with no reinvestment or improvement to be had and no other purpose to our existence?

Well that's not OK and not acceptable but unfortunately I think that is what we are. We shouldn't be.

We have sold one starting player Raya since Mowbray took over and that appears to have been both what the player wanted and what Mowbray wanted.

We have rebuffed bids for both Lenihen and Dack in that time, and id be suprised if we haven't had other enquiries regarding our better players.

Obviously we have sold players in the past to championship rivals but it hasnt happened since Mowbray took over, discounting Raya who wanted to leave and Mowbray was happy to let him go 

 

[RoversClitheroe]

Nicko saying that we now have a budget. 

It's not a crazy one but it's an okay one.

Backs up what @Sparks Rover is saying. 

Hopefully we hear about signings in the next week.

[roversfan99]

The oracle speaks.

[phili]

12 minutes ago, rigger said:

But it makes it more likely 

Venky's are just as likely to make decisions which will relegate us as a 12 point deduction for entering administration

[Mattyblue]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

The oracle speaks.

He’s asked for it now! 

21 questions in 30 days incoming!