Summer Transfer Window

[tomphil]

Not sure it's a losing culture but it seems 'Ah, ok it doesn't matter there's always next time' kind of mentality. I'm on about game to game and season to season.  Everyone is fine to bob along because they keep getting well paid and presumably never have to stand up and answer to anyone on a football level outside of one annual foreign meeting.

Doesn't take people long to get into a comfort zone its human nature for most.  When you are allowed to actually create your own then even better. 

It all starts right at the very top they set the targets and demands but even if they do there's no proper administration in between to apply it. Just a messenger boy middleman, god knows what his real agenda is and another wideboy who's authority is less than the first team manager.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Not sure it's a losing culture but it seems 'Ah, ok it doesn't matter there's always next time' kind of mentality. I'm on about game to game and season to season.  Everyone is fine to bob along because they keep getting well paid and presumably never have to stand up and answer to anyone on a football level outside of one annual foreign meeting.

Doesn't take people long to get into a comfort zone its human nature for most.  When you are allowed to actually create your own then even better. 

It all starts right at the very top they set the targets and demands but even if they do there's no proper administration in between to apply it. Just a messenger boy middleman, god knows what his real agenda is and another wideboy who's authority is less than the first team manager.

Tom, if you're not a winner you're a loser. There's no middle way in football I'm afraid.

I've said it before - how many people turning into work this morning would pull their tripes out if all of a sudden the upper management or the owner of the company suddenly disappeared. Some would, some wouldn't and it wouldn't be too long before the grafters starting saying " If that lot aren't going to do anything neither am I ". I've seen it happen in my working life.

You can bring any manager you want into Rovers but it would take a superman to get us back on track whilst there is no sense of hands on direction from the top.  " Whilst the cat's away the mice will play ". 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Kie_BRFC]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

As long as in top 6 after 46 games that's all matters. Ask Swansea that one. 

Cardiff wasn't in the top 6 until game 39. 

Forest spent the majority of the season in top 6 and after 46 games wasn't in top 6 when it matters..

And we haven't been in the top 6 at any point since being in this division, never mind when it matters. Unless you count an hour there at Brentford away last season

[tomphil]

The club in many ways is geared for success and always has been compared to a lot of others. It just needs the right people in there pressing the right buttons. Even the funding is in place to do better but sadly the people aren't it's all about maintaining the status quo.

Relegation from midtable championship growing players to sell, promotion and put right back there. Job done.

[47er]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

The club in many ways is geared for success and always has been compared to a lot of others. It just needs the right people in there pressing the right buttons. Even the funding is in place to do better but sadly the people aren't it's all about maintaining the status quo.

Relegation from midtable championship growing players to sell, promotion and put right back there. Job done.

That's it in a nutshell. It doesn't matter how much money goes in if the people with authority to spend it are clueless. That includes the Raos.

[Uddersfelt Blue]

One could argue that being in the Championship is about where we rank in the football pyramid and that the Premier League spells were only blips as a result of Jack Walkers's money, enthusiasm and direction. That's what the majority of other club's fans believe and that going toe to toe with the big city clubs in the 90's and 00's was inconsistent with our history. Not true.

Our history shows that whilst we have not always been a dominant force, we have more than held our own at the top level, albeit with spells outside the top division. Does that mean we have an automatic right to be back in the Premier League? Not really, but then neither have the likes of Aston Villa, Derby County, Forest et al. The big difference currently is that the football authorities have redrawn the rules and are gradually making it more difficult to return through FFP. Teams are having to invent more and more devious ways of raising finance in the hope of being able to find the successful formula. 

In Rovers case, we play by the rules and with being unable to raise the same levels of revenue, we will always be at a disadvantage to the bigger clubs. It therefore becomes more critical that we use the resources we have in the most effective way. We can't afford to gamble on players with "potential" unless we plan to wait several years. 

Mowbray keeps saying that progress is being made but most fans don't see a couple of league places or a few more points on the board as progress. They want us to be challenging for promotion after 2 seasons back in the Championship. Is that a realistic objective given our current set up? Is there a strategy that will result in the objective being achieved? Who knows, because we never hear anything from the owners. All we can hope for is that Mowbray, Waggot and Co have a plan!

   

  

[Mattyblue]

3 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

 

Mowbray keeps saying that progress is being made but most fans don't see a couple of league places or a few more points on the board as progress. They want us to be challenging for promotion after 2 seasons back in the Championship.

   

  

Do they? In the Bowyer era I would say that was the case.

Away from this forum I don’t see much ambition in the fanbase anymore, plodding along in mid table and staying out of the third division suffices with many these days, ‘we are a small club’ etc. 

The expectations we had even as relatively recently as, say, 2015 seem to have long gone...

Edited August 6, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Admiral Nelsen]

2 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Do they? In the Bowyer era I would say that was the case.

Away from this forum I don’t see much ambition in the fanbase anymore, plodding along in mid table and staying out of the third division suffices with many these days, ‘we are a small club’ etc. 

The expectations we had even as relatively recently as, say, 2015 seem to have long gone...

I'm not sure that's quite true. I see a fair amount of disagreement about how close we are to being a playoff team, some thinking we're close and progressing, others that we're some way away/stagnating. But I don't think the idea that we're at our level and we should be satisfied with being where we are is a common view at all. 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Do they? In the Bowyer era I would say that was the case.

Away from this forum I don’t see much ambition in the fanbase anymore, plodding along in mid table and staying out of the third division suffices with many these days, ‘we are a small club’ etc. 

The expectations we had even as relatively recently as, say, 2015 seem to have long gone...

Where's the evidence that fans are not ambitious? I would suggest the opposite and expectations are too great. 

[AllRoverAsia]

20 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

One could argue that being in the Championship is about where we rank in the football pyramid and that the Premier League spells were only blips as a result of Jack Walkers's money, enthusiasm and direction. That's what the majority of other club's fans believe and that going toe to toe with the big city clubs in the 90's and 00's was inconsistent with our history. Not true.

Our history shows that whilst we have not always been a dominant force, we have more than held our own at the top level, albeit with spells outside the top division. Does that mean we have an automatic right to be back in the Premier League? Not really, but then neither have the likes of Aston Villa, Derby County, Forest et al. The big difference currently is that the football authorities have redrawn the rules and are gradually making it more difficult to return through FFP. Teams are having to invent more and more devious ways of raising finance in the hope of being able to find the successful formula. 

In Rovers case, we play by the rules and with being unable to raise the same levels of revenue, we will always be at a disadvantage to the bigger clubs. It therefore becomes more critical that we use the resources we have in the most effective way. We can't afford to gamble on players with "potential" unless we plan to wait several years. 

Mowbray keeps saying that progress is being made but most fans don't see a couple of league places or a few more points on the board as progress. They want us to be challenging for promotion after 2 seasons back in the Championship. Is that a realistic objective given our current set up? Is there a strategy that will result in the objective being achieved? Who knows, because we never hear anything from the owners. All we can hope for is that Mowbray, Waggot and Co have a plan!

   

  

They do and its called PPP

[Mattyblue]

15 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Where's the evidence that fans are not ambitious? I would suggest the opposite and expectations are too great. 

I’d say you were right - up to L1 relegation. 

I’m talking anecdotally, and also look on social media (not here), apart from the standard ‘get him sacked’ after a defeat, LT comments, Twitter and Facebook groups are always at pains to say how we have no right to be challenging, can’t compete, small club, TM is a miracle worker etc.

I hear it repeatedly at Ewood and at away games too, but as I say, I can only speak as I find it, it’s not scientific. And it’s certainly not everyone, I am still fiercely ambitious for Blackburn Rovers!

Though I am surprised you haven’t picked up on a general lowering of expectations and standards post 2017.

Edited August 6, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

16 hours ago, Richard Oakley said:

Crooke said talk from the budget town is

Nicko's tweet was that 'he had heard encouraging things'

Neither is confirmation that we have a budget. No-one has confirmed that Venkys have signed off on a budget this year.

As is said every year, do people want an official statement from the club on what our budget is? You keep these things under wraps. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

Not sure it's a losing culture but it seems 'Ah, ok it doesn't matter there's always next time' kind of mentality. I'm on about game to game and season to season.  Everyone is fine to bob along because they keep getting well paid and presumably never have to stand up and answer to anyone on a football level outside of one annual foreign meeting.

Doesn't take people long to get into a comfort zone its human nature for most.  When you are allowed to actually create your own then even better. 

It all starts right at the very top they set the targets and demands but even if they do there's no proper administration in between to apply it. Just a messenger boy middleman, god knows what his real agenda is and another wideboy who's authority is less than the first team manager.

Pretty much this. As such I think this is a make or break season for Mowbray. Make the play offs or it's time up. 

[Stuart]

14 hours ago, Mike E said:

As a thought experiment, I swapped the amounts paid for these players in accordance with their Rovers performances/goal returns:

Dack £7m

Armstrong £5m

Gallagher £1.75m

Brereton £250k

Frankly, Gally still looks like a waste out of those 4 imo.

That’s interesting but disingenuous.

If we can get Dack for £250k (I thought it was £750 but ok) and Arma for £1.75m then we should be able to get BETTER players than even them for 6 times the amount paid not worse.

Arma and Dack should not be the maximum we can expect - we should always be aiming to improve the quality, not increase the depth. Lest we forget that is exactly what got us relegated (twice).

Netting off money wasted because of a couple of bargains (on the basis of current form in the case of Arma) is defeatist.

We have precious little budget as it is and while sacking Mowbray for wasting a huge amount of money would be reasonable in other industries (and at most other clubs, frankly), looking for an angle to absolve him is nonsense.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Yes, money is tight here, but every transfer is a gamble and no manager has a 100% record. I would say most it's about 50/50 or maybe slightly better. You can include Alex Ferguson, Pep , Klopp or whoever in that category. 

[Richard Oakley]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

As is said every year, do people want an official statement from the club on what our budget is? You keep these things under wraps. 

Every year, except this one, there has been an official statement that there's an agreed budget. Every year except this one, the VH Group accountant has said that Venkys will continue to fund Blackburn Rovers.You do like your strawman arguments, don't you? I'm not asking for details about what's in the budget.No-one ever has. Right now, there's nothing official to say that Venkys are committed to 'keeping the lights on'.

[phili]

15 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Every year, except this one, there has been an official statement that there's an agreed budget. Every year except this one, the VH Group accountant has said that Venkys will continue to fund Blackburn Rovers.You do like your strawman arguments, don't you? I'm not asking for details about what's in the budget.No-one ever has. Right now, there's nothing official to say that Venkys are committed to 'keeping the lights on'.

The VH Group accountant will have given the auditors confirmation of continuing to fund us, otherwise we would be in administration at present. 

I would still expect some player sales this summer as there is still no word on FFP relaxation for the season from the EFL.

[roversfan99]

11 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

David Bates leaving Hamburg. Weren’t we linked with him at some point. Big CB, decent pedigree...

Was at Sheffield Wednesday last season and could never get into the team. Dont think him or Brad Smith are the calibre of players that we need really.

5 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

As long as in top 6 after 46 games that's all matters. Ask Swansea that one. 

Cardiff wasn't in the top 6 until game 39. 

Forest spent the majority of the season in top 6 and after 46 games wasn't in top 6 when it matters..

You've moved away from your own argument

There is no evidence at all that even with Dack, we would have got into the play offs. Even this pie in the sky hope that we would sneak in last minute against all probability and previous evidence. A bottom half defensive record doesnt help!

5 hours ago, Prelude said:

Would you agree though that whilst I agree Brereton has been poor but up until lockdown in my opinon but since the season restarted he has looked a lot stronger on the ball, made some good runs and at least has potential to push on next season? 

I think this is the time when he has benefitted from his price tag. We are so desperate to see him succeed that we cling onto the merest of flickers of anything we can to justify the hope that one day he will come good.

Because the precedent is so low, ultimately a few tidy dribbles in nonthreatening areas and we are all expecting a new dawn. 

Fact of the matter is in them first 2 games post lockdown, the one time he got himself into a goalscoring position, his touch to round the keeper took the ball behind him and he fell on his arse. Then in the next game he was sent off. His customary one a year goal when there is nothing left to play for was a tidy one but I will need to see much, much more to have any real expectation. We can but hope.

[Tom]

To me Brad Smith seems a sensible option, decent enough and won’t break the bank, seems likely 

[Bigdoggsteel]

29 minutes ago, Richard Oakley said:

Every year, except this one, there has been an official statement that there's an agreed budget. Every year except this one, the VH Group accountant has said that Venkys will continue to fund Blackburn Rovers.You do like your strawman arguments, don't you? I'm not asking for details about what's in the budget.No-one ever has. Right now, there's nothing official to say that Venkys are committed to 'keeping the lights on'.

An official statement? Has there been? Really? Don't recall that.Do you mean someone asked Mowbray and he answered? 

I remember people looking at money lodged by the parent company and coming to their own conclusions. As they have done again recently enough from my recollection. 

Edited August 6, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

Asked a couple of Liverpool supporting mates about Smith. They said said there was hype about him and he was pin pointed as a great prospect, but apparently he got a bit too big for his boots. The last arrogant ozzy did ok here though I suppose. 

[WacoRover]

45 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Pretty much this. As such I think this is a make or break season for Mowbray. Make the play offs or it's time up. 

This should be the case. I was one who voted for Mowbray’s return; however, a lot of that was based on seeing what kind of talent he brings in this off-season...we’re still waiting on that. Adarabioyo will be difficult to replace, we know that already. A quality keeper is a must, as Walton was not as consistent as the guy he replaced. Left back, or the absence of a quality presence there, has haunted this team far too long. 

The way this team moves up the table is one way: improve the defending. If the off-season ends and we haven’t acquired talented players, this should be apparent sooner than later. Unfortunately, by then, any worthy manager will already be working. Tony will have to muddle through til the end of the season. 

Make or break season is right. Hopefully our “break” won’t take us back down to L1.

[Exiled_Rover]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Asked a couple of Liverpool supporting mates about Smith. They said said there was hype about him and he was pin pointed as a great prospect, but apparently he got a bit too big for his boots. The last arrogant ozzy did ok here though I suppose. 

Now cricket and RL have ingrained in me a hatred of Australians (especially their sportsmen), but I can't think of an arrogant Ozzy that's played for us?

[briansol]

3 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Now cricket and RL have ingrained in me a hatred of Australians (especially their sportsmen), but I can't think of an arrogant Ozzy that's played for us?

I think he is referring to Lucas Neill

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Now cricket and RL have ingrained in me a hatred of Australians (especially their sportsmen), but I can't think of an arrogant Ozzy that's played for us?

Lucas Neill, although having lived there he isn't the worst and I have many Australian cousins!