Summer Transfer Window

[Hasta]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

if you have senior back up striker there surely thats blocking the pathway of a youngster like Jack Vale? 

 

The problem being looking at the squad some of us don't feel we have an effective senior backup striker any more.

As Roverfan99 eludes to, the days of throwing DG on to try and hold it up / flick it on and make something happen have now gone. At least Graham could change the dynamic of the game. Of the strikers we have, there is only Armstrong who could come off the bench and offer something different and effective, but he is surely the first name on the team sheet. 

You look at the rest of the players in our squad who can offer something different going forward if required from the bench and you struggle to pick one out. Your eyes are drawn to the name Harry Chapman again, but he has been outcast for all of his second spell.

 

[JacknOry]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So Swansea, a team who got in the play-offs, want Williams? Probably another that isn't as bad as people on here make out. I would keep him as a CB option. 

I wonder how much they bid 

It wont be as a starter though, he is a useful squad player that can fill a couple of positions on the backline. I am not adverse to keeping him here as a backup either. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

if you have senior back up striker there surely thats blocking the pathway of a youngster like Jack Vale? 

 

But we dont know if Jack Vale having played about 20 minutes of League football is ready to play an important part for a team at the (hopefully) top end of the Championship. If he comes through then great of course but theres no rush and its risky to assume that he is ready.

Ultimately I appreciate that other positions are more pressing but if we had any money left I wouldnt mind some genuine competition for Armstrong. Gallagher is average at best really and Brereton not even that. Weve got plenty of young players which is good but a more experienced attacker would be welcome if possible and maybe loan Vale and/or Butterworth out and see if they get some goals at a lower level.

Are either out and out strikers anyway?

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, JHRover said:

You only use it if the players are good enough and are ready for the Championship. 

You don't use it regardless to prove some sort of point and in the process hinder the first team.

My only interest is getting a team out that can get promoted. I am not interested in individuals, projects or development. I don't care if they are from the academy or Burkina Faso. 

All about ensuring the team is properly equipped for the challenges ahead.

You make it sound as though we need more from the academy than we have been getting. Last time i looked we have Nyambe, Lenihan, Travis all academy products playing regularly along with Buckley and Rankin Costello more recently.

That's a big return, I'm not aware of any other club with such numbers so we have already used it heavily. Thats good of course. But I dont get this attitude of 'we need to use the academy more moving forward'. We don't. We need promotion moving forward.

 

 

I think we can bring through more players in the couple of years like Carter, Pike, Eastham, Vale, Brennan and Burns. 

Middlesbrough have brought through Fry, Coulson, Spence, Pears, Wing and Tavernier in the last couple of years

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

34 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Aren't we going for promotion this season? Sounds a bit of a gamble to me. Give them a chance to prove they are good enough. I'd rather ensure we have a side that we KNOW is good enough. You do know that Butterworth has been injured for the last year?

Long standing injuries that last as long as his has are rarely good news. Disc problems especially.

[roversfan99]

Just now, Hasta said:

The problem being looking at the squad some of us don't feel we have an effective senior backup striker any more.

As Roverfan99 eludes to, the days of throwing DG on to try and hold it up / flick it on and make something happen have now gone. At least Graham could change the dynamic of the game. Of the strikers we have, there is only Armstrong who could come off the bench and offer something different and effective, but he is surely the first name on the team sheet. 

You look at the rest of the players in our squad who can offer something different going forward if required from the bench and you struggle to pick one out. Your eyes are drawn to the name Harry Chapman again, but he has been outcast for all of his second spell.

 

If we could afford his wages, someone like Chris Martin wouldnt be bad to have around. Experienced, a healthy goal per minute ratio last year, acts as a focal point and a free agent. If we needed a goal on the opening day and brought on Vale, im not sure we could at this stage be confident that he is capable of having an impact.

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 minute ago, RoverKyle said:

I think he's better than most people give him credit for. I think as a back up, he's a decent option.

 

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So Swansea, a team who got in the play-offs, want Williams? Probably another that isn't as bad as people on here make out. I would keep him as a CB option. 

I wonder how much they bid 

Purely speculatively, if we were getting several hundred thousand for him then I think that we could probably put that to better use - not least because he picks up injuries a bit too often for me. Otherwise, perfectly decent back up option. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Purely speculatively, if we were getting several hundred thousand for him then I think that we could probably put that to better use - not least because he picks up injuries a bit too often for me. Otherwise, perfectly decent back up option. 

Ya, the injuries are a big concern. 

[RoverKyle]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

 

Purely speculatively, if we were getting several hundred thousand for him then I think that we could probably put that to better use - not least because he picks up injuries a bit too often for me. Otherwise, perfectly decent back up option. 

Yeah I agree with that. He does tend to be out a fair bit of the season. We probably wouldn't be worse off if we got a small amount of money to play with and have Wharton step in as a back up CB.

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

I think we can bring through more players in the couple of years like Carter, Pike, Eastham, Vale, Brennan and Burns. 

Middlesbrough have brought through Fry, Coulson, Spence, Pears, Wing and Tavernier in the last couple of years

Strange example. An influx of youngsters playing led to them finishing at the opposite side of the table.

We have plenty of younger players in the core of our team. Travis, Armstrong, Nyambe all regulars. Dack, Kaminski, Lenihan all approaching their peak. Rankin Costello, Davenport, Gallagher, (not that young but youd like to think he can improve) Brereton, Buckley, Wharton all around the team.

If anything having lost Graham and seemingly Downing, we could do with a bit more know how and experience to guide us, and to manage games. Thats why I would love someone like Ayala or Van Der Hoorn at CB and wouldnt mind someone like Martin up top. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

21 minutes ago, oldjamfan1 said:

I wasn't going to join in this debate as it is a bit off-topic, but ask any player who has played with or against Batty how good he is. That lad had everything in his locker, a marvellous footballer. I can't remember which Rovers player it was (possibly big Col) said when he first saw Batty training he couldn't believe how good he actually was, and even he as a seasoned pro had bought into this urban myth that Batty was a limited player. Sherwood was a flash git who was a world-beater when you were 2-0 up, but not when you were 1-0 down unfortunately. Amazing to think that Kenny gave him the armband above the likes of Hendry, Shearer, Flowers etc.

10/10. Maybe Sherwood was much better at geeing the other players up vocally. Batty wasn't much of a talker. However I know who I'd chose out of those two to play for us now if we had a time machine.

I keep saying it but players come in two groups. The ones that play from the first whistle and the ones that shine when the first lot of players have got you in the game. Batty was in the first group and Sherwood was in the second group.

[islander200]

29 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That's irrelevant, if funny. He was injured most of last season and played Saturday. 

So there is zero evidence he is leaving? 

Sharpe mentioned him and Mulgrew leaving couple of days ago.

Last season one of the MLS teams where looking at him according to the press

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Admiral Nelsen said:

Swansea  are supposedly after Ayala.

I read that has been dismissed at weekend

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

The problem being looking at the squad some of us don't feel we have an effective senior backup striker any more.

As Roverfan99 eludes to, the days of throwing DG on to try and hold it up / flick it on and make something happen have now gone. At least Graham could change the dynamic of the game. Of the strikers we have, there is only Armstrong who could come off the bench and offer something different and effective, but he is surely the first name on the team sheet. 

You look at the rest of the players in our squad who can offer something different going forward if required from the bench and you struggle to pick one out. Your eyes are drawn to the name Harry Chapman again, but he has been outcast for all of his second spell.

 

We have 3 main strikers in Armstrong, Gallagher and Brereton. 

instead of going so direct with Graham type we could move to playing 2 up front in with Gallagher and Armstrong as plan B going forward. 

Chapman could be used as plan B as long as he keeps up the same performance as Fleetwood. Hopefully thats penny has drop finally with him. 

Just now, roversfan99 said:

But we dont know if Jack Vale having played about 20 minutes of League football is ready to play an important part for a team at the (hopefully) top end of the Championship. If he comes through then great of course but theres no rush and its risky to assume that he is ready.

Ultimately I appreciate that other positions are more pressing but if we had any money left I wouldnt mind some genuine competition for Armstrong. Gallagher is average at best really and Brereton not even that. Weve got plenty of young players which is good but a more experienced attacker would be welcome if possible and maybe loan Vale and/or Butterworth out and see if they get some goals at a lower level.

Are either out and out strikers anyway?

Well the other way you are going to know if Vale is ready is by giving him opportunity to play. 

WE have to use Gallagher and Brereton going forward.  

We have more pressing matters like bring 3 defenders and back up keeper 1st before we even we start at looking a back up striker. 

Vale is more of striker than Butterworth is. Butterworth is probably coming from the left side or number 10 role for the 1st team

 

[tomphil]

Just a thought on Williams but he told Mowbray last summer he only wanted to be considered for CH from then onwards. He had his chance did ok and poor then got dropped, got injured and that was that.

Possibly the manager sees him still more as a left back and they don't see eye to eye on it so it's a bit of a stalemate. Doubt he  wants to be 3rd or 4th choice CH at his age but that's what he is now so it maybe a good time to part ways.  If he'd do 3rd/4th choice CH and LB cover he's worth keeping otherwise time to move on.

If we got a fee for him it's got to be worth it.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He wants to be No.1. That's the funny bit. 

Brighton had another young goalkeeper on loan at Rochdale last season called Sanchez that I would play before I'd play Walton.

[Ewood Ace]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

WE have to use Gallagher and Brereton going forward.  

Even if one is patently not good enough?

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I read that has been dismissed at weekend

We have 3 main strikers in Armstrong, Gallagher and Brereton. 

instead of going so direct with Graham type we could move to playing 2 up front in with Gallagher and Armstrong as plan B going forward. 

Chapman could be used as plan B as long as he keeps up the same performance as Fleetwood. Hopefully thats penny has drop finally with him. 

Well the other way you are going to know if Vale is ready is by giving him opportunity to play. 

WE have to use Gallagher and Brereton going forward.  

We have more pressing matters like bring 3 defenders and back up keeper 1st before we even we start at looking a back up striker. 

Vale is more of striker than Butterworth is. Butterworth is probably coming from the left side or number 10 role for the 1st team

 

Vale can still have opportunities but like I said, we cant be reliant on him being an instant goal scoring success playing regularly.

My view would be that the ideal way to go would be to sign a forward and a winger but sadly I dont think that the money will be there. 

I also think that Vale could benefit from a loan move, send him perhaps to a League 2 side and if he starts scoring plenty of goals then bring him back in January. Otherwise, even without recruits, he will be 4th choice and it will be difficult to be too reliant on him.

We do have to use Gallagher and Brereton but if they continue to play as they have so far then they wont get the goals we need.

In the absence of any other right sided players, we could do with Chapman being plan A.

[Ossydave]

23 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

I think he's better than most people give him credit for. I think as a back up, he's a decent option.

He's a LOT better at centre half than left back that's for certain. He would also make a good backup option, but the side issue there is he's forever picking up injuries. No point having a backup player who's a crock himself, especially when he's on a few quid too.

[RoverKyle]

7 minutes ago, Ossydave said:

He's a LOT better at centre half than left back that's for certain. He would also make a good backup option, but the side issue there is he's forever picking up injuries. No point having a backup player who's a crock himself, especially when he's on a few quid too.

If we can get a few quid for him, thank him for his efforts and move him on. You'd imagine that would be a decent wage saving if you replaced him with Wharton. 

Edited August 25, 2020 by RoverKyle

[chaddyrovers]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Strange example. An influx of youngsters playing led to them finishing at the opposite side of the table.

We have plenty of younger players in the core of our team. Travis, Armstrong, Nyambe all regulars. Dack, Kaminski, Lenihan all approaching their peak. Rankin Costello, Davenport, Gallagher, (not that young but youd like to think he can improve) Brereton, Buckley, Wharton all around the team.

If anything having lost Graham and seemingly Downing, we could do with a bit more know how and experience to guide us, and to manage games. Thats why I would love someone like Ayala or Van Der Hoorn at CB and wouldnt mind someone like Martin up top. 

JHRover's question was he didn't know of another team who brought through so many youngsters. So I named him a team who has. 

Can we afford any of those 3 wages? 

3 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Vale can still have opportunities but like I said, we cant be reliant on him being an instant goal scoring success playing regularly.

My view would be that the ideal way to go would be to sign a forward and a winger but sadly I dont think that the money will be there. 

I also think that Vale could benefit from a loan move, send him perhaps to a League 2 side and if he starts scoring plenty of goals then bring him back in January. Otherwise, even without recruits, he will be 4th choice and it will be difficult to be too reliant on him.

We do have to use Gallagher and Brereton but if they continue to play as they have so far then they wont get the goals we need.

In the absence of any other right sided players, we could do with Chapman being plan A.

How can Vale still have opportunities when you got 4 strikers in pathways as you want to bring in Chris Martin to play a bit part role on wages which could be used better

So you want to bring in a winger aswell to block players like Chapman, Rothwell, Dolan, Rankin Costello from playing? 

One minute you say we got a limited budget and we should be signings keepers and defenders and now you want a striker and winger. 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

JHRover's question was he didn't know of another team who brought through so many youngsters. So I named him a team who has. 

Can we afford any of those 3 wages? 

How can Vale still have opportunities when you got 4 strikers in pathways as you want to bring in Chris Martin to play a bit part role on wages which could be used better

So you want to bring in a winger aswell to block players like Chapman, Rothwell, Dolan, Rankin Costello from playing? 

One minute you say we got a limited budget and we should be signings keepers and defenders and now you want a striker and winger. 

You've now seemingly accepted that wingers play a role. But you have named 4 players who have minimal first time experience between them all, bar Rothwell who is getting close to last chance saloon. Dolan is a young kid, I dont think that he will be in the first team reckoning right away. Chapman, yes but his face doesnt fit and we dont know for sure how many goals and assists he can get. We dont have a player who we know from a wide role will be able to get goals and assists. Its all maybes and could dos, which isnt ideal considering that we really could do with a top 6 place, this may be the last season before some players get to the stage where they get itchy feet.

I dont think that Martin would play a bit part. I think he would sometimes be first off the bench and sometimes starting down the middle. Id prefer him over Gallagher every day and Brereton too. 

I accept that we may not be able to sign these players, a winger is more important than a striker in terms of we have Armstrong starting, whereas I dont think we have anything in the way of proven players in wide areas. I have always maintained that wide areas are one we have to improve. Unsure on who, maybe Jordan Jones on loan from Rangers.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

You've now seemingly accepted that wingers play a role. But you have named 4 players who have minimal first time experience between them all, bar Rothwell who is getting close to last chance saloon. Dolan is a young kid, I dont think that he will be in the first team reckoning right away. Chapman, yes but his face doesnt fit and we dont know for sure how many goals and assists he can get. We dont have a player who we know from a wide role will be able to get goals and assists. Its all maybes and could dos, which isnt ideal considering that we really could do with a top 6 place, this may be the last season before some players get to the stage where they get itchy feet.

I haven't accept anything, cos I don't know how we will set formation wise this season. On the evidence of the Blackpool game it will be 4-3-3. 

Yes the have minimal first team experience and it will stay that way if keep signing players in front of them. Give them a proper chance. Everything is maybe and could do's unless you give them a chance to play actually games and produce the goals and assists. You wasn't in favour of moving Armstrong into the number 9 and playing in his proper position of striker which he is by trade if memory serves my right, my apology if I am wrong. He is goal scorer. 

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I haven't accept anything, cos I don't know how we will set formation wise this season. On the evidence of the Blackpool game it will be 4-3-3. 

Yes the have minimal first team experience and it will stay that way if keep signing players in front of them. Give them a proper chance. Everything is maybe and could do's unless you give them a chance to play actually games and produce the goals and assists. You wasn't in favour of moving Armstrong into the number 9 and playing in his proper position of striker which he is by trade if memory serves my right, my apology if I am wrong. He is goal scorer. 

You want as many players as possible who you know are going to contribute. In attacking positions, we have 2. 

[JHRover]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Yes the have minimal first team experience and it will stay that way if keep signing players in front of them. Give them a proper chance. Everything is maybe and could do's unless you give them a chance to play actually games and produce the goals and assists. You wasn't in favour of moving Armstrong into the number 9 and playing in his proper position of striker which he is by trade if memory serves my right, my apology if I am wrong. He is goal scorer. 

You won't get promoted going down this road though. 

It is extremely rare that a goalscorer will emerge from an academy and start performing and scoring immediately. In the meantime the other assets in our squad, such as Dack, Armstrong, Travis and Lenihan, get another year nearer the end of their contract and another season of mid table when eventually they will decide to move on to have a better shot at the top division. 

Then we are having the same conversation again next summer and the summer after looking to fill gaps in the squad.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, JHRover said:

You won't get promoted going down this road though. 

It is extremely rare that a goalscorer will emerge from an academy and start performing and scoring immediately. In the meantime the other assets in our squad, such as Dack, Armstrong, Travis and Lenihan, get another year nearer the end of their contract and another season of mid table when eventually they will decide to move on to have a better shot at the top division. 

Then we are having the same conversation again next summer and the summer after looking to fill gaps in the squad.

Even if they do, it should be seen as a bonus, rather than something you expect to happen.