Summer Transfer Window

[unsall]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

You’re right — I did predict that reply coming back!

In all seriousness ‘brace yourself’ has taught me a hell of a lot about transfer windows without learning very much. It must be pretty crazy. DG told someone, in my company, over a month ago he was signing for Sunderland. Nothing for weeks, then he signs. 
 

The person that told me the ‘brace yourself’ info was part of the Rovers transfer team. Transfers do not happen without this persons involvement, in terms of ‘sources’ it’s pretty much golden. But then nothing, nothing on Wednesday, or Thursday... whilst I’m banging my head against a wall wondering what on Earth is going on, here we are a week later and seemingly nothing on the horizon. 
 

Do I think he was lying to me? No, that would be very odd. The reality — I assume — was someone was set to sign, then something happened. I’ve no idea what, or why. Really, unless you’re right in the middle of it, the info you get is second/third/fourth hand. To be fair to Rovers, when we do sign someone recently it’s totally out of nowhere, so we are doing well and keeping things under wraps. 

 Very complex, transfers these days must be a nightmare to get them over the line, still think we are trying hard to get a few in, difficult with our budget.

[J*B]

1 minute ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Haha..I couldn't resist!

In all seriousness, people have to be able to take a risk and post without recrimination. It is supposed to be a message board between fellow supporters after all...

Maybe, there's still time for your plane to land...

The key really is posting info with an asterisk next to it. If someone tells you to categorically not mention where/how you found out info, it’s very hard to say enough, without saying too much. 

If I had posted “Heard there’s something coming imminently, although it’s second hand info now and could be wrong” I would have gotten away with it. Well, until people replied saying “hedging your bets there!”.

[J*B]

6 minutes ago, unsall said:

 Very complex, transfers these days must be a nightmare to get them over the line, still think we are trying hard to get a few in, difficult with our budget.

I’m not sure our budget is as bad as I predicted. I noticed today Jacob at the Telegraph was saying that FFP has been relaxed, although I still can’t find any official confirmation of this and wonder whether he’s got UEFAs guidance wrong like many on here did. 

Unleaded posted saying we missed out on a player we had bid 600K for. We offered 900K for Kipre. Unleaded has got a long history of getting transfers right before anyone else, so I’ve no reason to doubt that we did offer money. 

I genuinely think they start with very high targets, get so far down the line then beaten financially at the post, then revert to loans to try and plug the gaps. The problem with loans IMO is they’re only any use when used to get you over the line. Like Villa did with Abraham. If they’re not going to make the difference between mid table and top six, or top six and top two, they’re really a waste. Someone posted Tosin cost us upwards of 1M, I believe that. He made a difference, but not enough to break us into the top six. We may as well have finished 17th with Wharton or Carter having the chance to develop. 

[unsall]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

I’m not sure our budget is as bad as predicted. Unleaded posted saying we missed out on a player we had bid 600K for. We offered 900K for Kipre. Unleaded has got a long history of getting transfers right before anyone else, so I’ve no reason to doubt that. 

I genuinely think they started with very high targets, get so far down the line then beaten financially at the post, then revert to loans to try and plug the gaps. The problem with loans IMO is they’re only any use when used to get you over the line. Like Villa did with Abraham. If they’re not going to make the difference between mid table and top six, or top six and top two, they’re really a waste. Someone posted Tosin cost us upwards of 1M, I believe that. He made a difference, but not enough to break us into the top six. We may as well have finished 17th with Wharton or Carter having the chance to develop. 

I know what you mean, but also works if it keeps you up, we’ll never know but playing Carter etc instead of Tosin would we have gone down, extremely doubtful but you never know. 
Would obviously like a permanent C/b and l/b and it looks like we’ve been trying but struggling to get one over the line.

Fingers crossed we get the additions shortly.

[47er]

4 minutes ago, unsall said:

it looks like we’ve been trying but struggling to get one over the line.

 

The main feature of  transfer windows since Mowbray arrived! Surely you're not falling for that again? 

[chaddyrovers]

Thanks @J*B for the info you provided recently. 

Do you think our budget could bring in someone like Daniel Ayala or still no chance cos of wages? 

Did you still think we will sign the Oxford midfielder later in the window?

[47er]

24 minutes ago, unsall said:

 Very complex, transfers these days must be a nightmare to get them over the line, still think we are trying hard to get a few in, difficult with our budget.

Always difficult to buy players with no money! The failure to address glaring inadequacies in our defence is years long now and is Mowbray's fault.

[unsall]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

The main feature of  transfer windows since Mowbray arrived! Surely you're not falling for that again? 

Yep ‘fraid so, I must be in the minority on here who thinks they had a genuine £900,000 bid for Kipre on the table but couldn’t give him £30,000 or so per week and premier league football. 

[unsall]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Always difficult to buy players with no money! The failure to address glaring inadequacies in our defence is years long now and is Mowbray's fault.

You say we’ve no money, but blame Mowbray.

[RevidgeBlue]

22 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’m not sure our budget is as bad as I predicted. I noticed today Jacob at the Telegraph was saying that FFP has been relaxed, although I still can’t find any official confirmation of this and wonder whether he’s got UEFAs guidance wrong like many on here did. 

Unleaded posted saying we missed out on a player we had bid 600K for. We offered 900K for Kipre. Unleaded has got a long history of getting transfers right before anyone else, so I’ve no reason to doubt that we did offer money. 

I genuinely think they start with very high targets, get so far down the line then beaten financially at the post, then revert to loans to try and plug the gaps. The problem with loans IMO is they’re only any use when used to get you over the line. Like Villa did with Abraham. If they’re not going to make the difference between mid table and top six, or top six and top two, they’re really a waste. Someone posted Tosin cost us upwards of 1M, I believe that. He made a difference, but not enough to break us into the top six. We may as well have finished 17th with Wharton or Carter having the chance to develop. 

I think you're spot on about loans.

[J*B]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks @J*B for the info you provided recently. 

Do you think our budget could bring in someone like Daniel Ayala or still no chance cos of wages? 

Did you still think we will sign the Oxford midfielder later in the window?

I’ve no idea, wasn’t he on 35K a year at Boro? Our highest earner I believe is Mulgrew on circa 15K, so I doubt we will ever pay anyone close to 20K more than our highest earner. The problem with high wages is it instantly effects your FFP whereas transfer fees can be set across multiple seasons. 
 

For what it’s worth I don’t think Alex Gorrin, the Oxford midfielder is even the right name. If you look back through the thread you’ll see I said I was told it was a Spanish player, then told separately that player was Alex Gorrin. I think the ‘Spanish player’ was probably right, but Gorrin was guesswork gone wrong. 
 

I was told today via Twitter DM that we where very close to Mowson but Bristol came up with a higher wage contribution that we couldn’t match. Not sure how true it is, but if it was true I would find that worrying. 

[J*B]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I think you're spot on about loans.

I personally think we have a club wide issue with how we recognise success. As far as I’m concerned — and if I was Chairman — I would be saying if we don’t finish top 6 we may as well finish 21st. 7th and 21st both equal the same thing. 
It makes zero difference in this league, the financial benefits aren’t the same as the PL where each position is worth X amount more money. I would rather finish 21st playing JRC, Nyambe, Wharton, Dolan, etc than finish frustratingly close to the top 6 and then have to send back our key players when their loans end and rebuild. 

[islander200]

28 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’m not sure our budget is as bad as I predicted. I noticed today Jacob at the Telegraph was saying that FFP has been relaxed, although I still can’t find any official confirmation of this and wonder whether he’s got UEFAs guidance wrong like many on here did. 

Unleaded posted saying we missed out on a player we had bid 600K for. We offered 900K for Kipre. Unleaded has got a long history of getting transfers right before anyone else, so I’ve no reason to doubt that we did offer money. 

I genuinely think they start with very high targets, get so far down the line then beaten financially at the post, then revert to loans to try and plug the gaps. The problem with loans IMO is they’re only any use when used to get you over the line. Like Villa did with Abraham. If they’re not going to make the difference between mid table and top six, or top six and top two, they’re really a waste. Someone posted Tosin cost us upwards of 1M, I believe that. He made a difference, but not enough to break us into the top six. We may as well have finished 17th with Wharton or Carter having the chance to develop. 

How much was he on a week?They signed him for big money did they not?

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ve no idea, wasn’t he on 35K a year at Boro? Our highest earner I believe is Mulgrew on circa 15K, so I doubt we will ever pay anyone close to 20K. The problem with high wages is it instantly effects your FFP whereas transfer fees can be set across multiple seasons. 
 

For what it’s worth I don’t think Alex Gorrin, the Oxford midfielder is even the right name. If you look back through the thread you’ll see I said I was told it was a Spanish player, then told separately that player was Alex Gorrin. I think the ‘Spanish player’ was probably right, but Gorrin was guesswork gone wrong. 
 

I was told today via Twitter DM that we where very close to Mowson but Bristol came up with a higher wage contribution that we couldn’t match. Not sure how true it is, but if it was true I would find that worrying. 

Thanks for reply..I read he was 25k at Boro.. how true I dont know. But with him not earned any money 6 weeks he might lower his demands. 

Mawson is having his fully 25k a week wages paid by Bristol City from what sports journalists are saying today. 

[Darwen Rover 007]

Just now, J*B said:

I personally think we have a club wise issue with how we recognise success. As far as I’m concerned — and if I was Chairman — I would be saying if we don’t finish top 6 we may as well finish 21st. 7th and 21st both equal the same thing. 
It makes zero difference in this league, the financial benefits aren’t the same as the PL where each position is worth X amount more money. I would rather finish 21st playing JRC, Nyambe, Wharton, Dolan, etc than finish frustratingly close to the top 6 and then have to send back our key players when their loans end and rebuild. 

Got to agree, genuinely think we should focus on youngsters... Most of them, have come up trumps often out performing more expensive purchases! 

[J*B]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Thanks for reply..I read he was 25k at Boro.. how true I dont know. But with him not earned any money 6 weeks he might lower his demands. 

Mawson is having his fully 25k a week wages paid by Bristol City from what sports journalists are saying today. 

I doubt his demands get lower as we get closer to the deadline, in fact I suspect they get higher. The closer to the deadline you get the more panic is involved. Certainly as a professional footballer just leaving a multi year contract on — for argument sake — 25K a week, he isn’t going to be worried that he hasn’t earnt a wage in 6 weeks. 

[islander200]

1 minute ago, J*B said:

I personally think we have a club wise issue with how we recognise success. As far as I’m concerned — and if I was Chairman — I would be saying if we don’t finish top 6 we may as well finish 21st. 7th and 21st both equal the same thing. 
It makes zero difference in this league, the financial benefits aren’t the same as the PL where each position is worth X amount more money. I would rather finish 21st playing JRC, Nyambe, Wharton, Dolan, etc than finish frustratingly close to the top 6 and then have to send back our key players when their loans end and rebuild. 

Yes that is an option I could agree with.

We have paid off loads of contracts or had players stay and hardly play on lucrative contracts I would much prefer our younger players be given the chance than sign players who realistically won't take us up a level and get us into that top 6.

I'm open to loans if they are of high quality and can take us up a level.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, J*B said:

I doubt his demands get lower as we get closer to the deadline, in fact I suspect they get higher. The closer to the deadline you get the more panic is involved. Certainly as a professional footballer just leaving a multi year contract on — for argument sake — 25K a week, he isn’t going to be worried that he hasn’t earnt a wage in 6 weeks. 

Fair enough

Thanks for the replies

 

[Fraserkirky]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Mawson is having his fully 25k a week wages paid by Bristol City from what sports journalists are saying today. 

So basically what we paid for Tosin last year?

If that deal is still on the table this year for Tosin then we should do it again. Find a left back from some corner of this earth and I think we have a chance at top 6. 

I guess if we were genuinely in for Mawson, then its clear we are trying for the A list players first. Mawson and Kipre are quality signings I would have been thrilled with.

 

[J*B]

Just now, islander200 said:

Yes that is an option I could agree with.

We have paid off loads of contracts or had players stay and hardly play on lucrative contracts I would much prefer our younger players be given the chance than sign players who realistically won't take us up a level and get us into that top 6.

I'm open to loans if they are of high quality and can take us up a level.

My approach as chairman would be quite simple - I would ask Mowbray if he was confident we would finish in the top 6 with the footballing budget allocated. If he said no, I would immediately remove a large % of the budget and ask him to play/develop the kids. If we are struggling in January the budget is still there to bring in enough quality players on short term loans to ensure we don’t go down. As long as we don’t go down all we have done is given opportunities for our own young players to either shine and become valuable assets or prove they are not currently up to the job. 

[Exiled_Rover]

40 minutes ago, unsall said:

You say we’ve no money, but blame Mowbray.

£12m on Brereton and Gallagher.

[Swanson]

Not much to do on this nighwatch, so here is how and when we have bought players (summer windows) for the past 3 seasons :

17/18

Peter Whittingham 13.06.2017
Richard Smallwood 20.06.2017
Bradley Dack 27.06.2017
Ben Gladwin 28.06.2017
Dominic Samuel 19.07.2017
Paul Caddis 20.07.2017
Joe Nuttall 22.07.2017
Jayson Leutwiler 02.08.2017
Harry Chapman 04.08.2017 LOAN
Marcus Antonsson 11.08.2017 LOAN
Rekeem Harper 31.08.2017 LOAN
Sam Hart 31.08.2017
Paul Downing 31.08.2017 LOAN

First league game 05.08.2017
Deadline day 31.08.2017

18/19

Joe Rothwell 22.06.2018
Jacob Davenport 02.07.2018
Kasey Palmer 30.07.2018 LOAN
Adam Armstrong 06.08.2018
Jack Rodwell 23.08.2018
Harrison Reed 27.08.2018 LOAN
Ben Brereton 28.08.2018 LOAN
Brad Lyons 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)
Mitchell Candlin 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)

First league game 04.08.2018
Deadline day 31.08.2018

19/20

Stewart Downing 21.06.2019
Bradley Johnson 05.07.2019
Sam Gallagher 13.07.2019
Christian Walton 23.07.2019 LOAN
Tosin Adarabioyo 31.07.2019 LOAN
Greg Cunningham 08.08.2019 LOAN

First league game 03.08.2019
Deadline day 08.08.2019

Lewis Holtby 19.09.2019

20/21

Tyrhys Dolan 01.07.2020 (U23)
Thomas Kaminski 26.08.2020
Connor McBride 02.09.2020 (U23)

First league game 12.09.2020

Deadline day 05.10.2020 + Domestic transfers until 16.10.2020

Source : Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.

Edited September 8, 2020 by Swanson

[Fraserkirky]

14 minutes ago, Swanson said:

Not much to do on this nighwatch, so here is how and when we have bought players for the past 3 seasons :

17/18

Peter Whittingham 13.06.2017
Richard Smallwood 20.06.2017
Bradley Dack 27.06.2017
Ben Gladwin 28.06.2017
Dominic Samuel 19.07.2017
Paul Caddis 20.07.2017
Joe Nuttall 22.07.2017
Jayson Leutwiler 02.08.2017
Harry Chapman 04.08.2017 LOAN
Marcus Antonsson 11.08.2017 LOAN
Rekeem Harper 31.08.2017 LOAN
Sam Hart 31.08.2017
Paul Downing 31.08.2017 LOAN

First league game 05.08.2017
Deadline day 31.08.2017

18/19

Joe Rothwell 22.06.2018
Jacob Davenport 02.07.2018
Kasey Palmer 30.07.2018 LOAN
Adam Armstrong 06.08.2018
Jack Rodwell 23.08.2018
Harrison Reed 27.08.2018 LOAN
Ben Brereton 28.08.2018 LOAN
Brad Lyons 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)
Mitchell Candlin 31.08.2018 LOAN (U23)

First league game 04.08.2018
Deadline day 31.08.2018

19/20

Stewart Downing 21.06.2019
Bradley Johnson 05.07.2019
Sam Gallagher 13.07.2019
Christian Walton 23.07.2019 LOAN
Tosin Adarabioyo 31.07.2019 LOAN
Greg Cunningham 08.08.2019 LOAN

First league game 03.08.2019
Deadline day 08.08.2019

Lewis Holtby 19.09.2019

20/21

Tyrhys Dolan 01.07.2020 (U23)
Thomas Kaminski 26.08.2020
Connor McBride 02.09.2020 (U23)

First league game 12.09.2020

Deadline day 05.10.2020 + Domestic transfers until 16.10.2020

Source : Wikipedia and Transfermarkt.

Loans are the last option for Mowbray, is the conclusion

Edited September 8, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[Sparks Rover]

11 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

Loans are the last option for Mowbray, is the conclusion

No, I think he's relying on a couple.  They are always done late on anyway so there's no conspiracy there. 

We aren't bidding for anyone i don't think...its all window dressing

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

My approach as chairman would be quite simple - I would ask Mowbray if he was confident we would finish in the top 6 with the footballing budget allocated. If he said no, I would immediately remove a large % of the budget and ask him to play/develop the kids. If we are struggling in January the budget is still there to bring in enough quality players on short term loans to ensure we don’t go down. As long as we don’t go down all we have done is given opportunities for our own young players to either shine and become valuable assets or prove they are not currently up to the job. 

Surely its not as simple as being "confident" in finishing top 6 and if not, then playing loads of kids. If individuals are good enough, by all means play them but unless for example you have 10/15 games left and you are comfortably in mid table, when by all means start to experiment, but you cant just go and play too many kids off the bat at the start of the season unless they are genuinely amidst your best 11. Even if you think you have a 25% chance of a top 6 finish, you have to push for it for what the potential reward is rather than prioritising development too much over results. Although to be honest, we have a young side anyway so there are plenty of players who develop even whilst playing our best team without pushing it too far. It isnt in the youngsters best interests either to chuck too many in together and it is in the best interest of everyone to get enough experience amidst it all.

Not that I am endorsing becoming over reliant on loan players, as you said they should be the final push to get the over line which I totally agree with. I also dont think we should be loaning Stoke reserves as has been suggested. The main issue with us is how we have spent money under Mowbray all in attacking areas, and theres not that base of permanent defenders whereby a loan like Adarabioyo is the cherry on top of the cake. Even if somehow we could get him again, which I would welcome even on loan, we still need at least one permanent CB and LB for it to make sense.

A good example would be Boro. They finished 7th under Pulis without really using the academy, then flipped 180 degrees and made a big deal about playing kids under Woodgate as the primary objective so surely last season was more successful than the season before and Woodgate should have stayed on? Pulis was solely short term, no consideration to playing youth and so close to a top 6 finish. Whereas Woodgate was solely prioritising playing kids and results become almost a secondary objective. The ideal approach is a hybrid but closer to Pulis than Woodgate, you cant prioritise development to the point when results are not of primary importance.

To go off on a tangent, the key is to judge the manager on who he signs (and when) rather than getting too caught up in the rumours on what he might have tried to do. The mystery second defender that we have missed out on has been revealed as both Ayala and Mawson within a couple of pages, and Ayalas potential wage has varied by 20k. Rumours aside, all that matters is who we do bring in.