Summer Transfer Window

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Carter is not 'only a boy' - he is 21 years of age this year.

As I have said before, ability is relative to the level you play at.  IMO, if Carter was going to be a player for us at Championship level, at his age, he should already have broken through or shown much more composure and dominance in his two games for us.  Sadly, I think he is another Academy product who will just drift into obscurity or earn a crust at Division 2 or, at best, Division 1 level.  You watch these lads at levels below first team and and I think it's pretty obvious who has got something about them and has a chance to become a real player for us and who hasn't.

IMO, Jack Vale looks like he could be the real thing but others like Butterworth, Davenport, Fisher, Grayson, Magloire, Mols, Wharton etc you can forget.

He may well do but its far too soon to predict that. He needs to play at a lower level for the time being but 21 is not old no matter which world class talents you bring into the conversation.

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

Argh...you were doing ok until you said Butterworth. If you genuinely believe he’s one to forget then it calls into question all of your calls.

 

Have you seen much of him? Or based on others peoples view on him in training like Buckley? Looked good in a cameo v Bolton but spending so much time injured during development years is not ideal at all.

34 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

He made some fantastic recoveries from his mistakes. 

His last ditch challenges were fantastic. Think you are being slightly harsh on him.

Out of those 6 goals I reckon Walton was guilty for 4 of them.

I dont recall many last ditch challenges. The goal was a difficult one to react to, possibly saw it more than Johnsons but would like to think that he felt he could do better. Then I dont know if it was having had his confidence taken a blow from scoring an own goal, but he played a square ball (I think trying to play it left) that was cut out and caused a counter attack. And then especially in the second half I think they targetted him because there were a few times when he looked all at sea. They had a good chance which was dragged wide at the end that came from him misreading the flight of the ball.

I just personally think based on what I have seen, and it was right to give him a chance, that he is well off at the moment. If we are going to keep a prospect to push the centre backs, considering how I felt that Carter really, really struggled, I think Wharton would make more sense. League 2 form is always a weak indicator but he has not only seemingly coped there but excelled, 3 promotions, individual awards, plenty of praise and a desire to keep him into League 1. That being said, we need some more experience above him.

Walton is a poor keeper. Not sure he was responsible for all 4 goals though, think thats harsh. Mind you, definitely over 10 during the season and was summed up right at the end when he comically allowed the ball through his hands and legs, thankfully not in the immediate vicinity of goal.

[Scotland1]

1 minute ago, Mattyblue said:

I may be wrong, but hasn’t DG always lived in the north east throughout his time here?

Yes has a huge house up Wynyard

[tomphil]

59 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Been saying this for ages.

IMO, it's as though Mowbray doesn't want the lad to succeed and is even denying him the chance to.

I just think there is an amazing talent in there and with good man management, we would have a real player, a real creative force, on our hands.

The way Mowbray wants to play and his preference for wide forwards shouldn't be underestimated here he got 3 on his books for that berth and Armstrong left so Chapman was always way down the pecking order. It would upset his daft formation actually having some balance at both sides.

Then factor in he signs expecting to be involved when he's fit enough to play but then is just left to graft for months in the U23s after proving himself fit. Obviously he should have got his head down but i can see why an immature young lad might become quickly fed up when he's looking at the first team stuttering about with strikers playing wide. 

Seems a 2 way stand off this so they should get him in the squad pre season and beast him into fitness and give him a real chance. He could be the game changer from the bench we crave but old plodder prefers to replace one wide striker with another. No wonder we rarely rescue games or turn them around late on.

Edited July 24, 2020 by tomphil

[J*B]

9 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

I may be wrong, but hasn’t DG always lived in the north east throughout his time here?

DG, Johnson and a few others rent Wharton’s house off him. They live there midweek for training and at home for weekends/time off. 

[Mattyblue]

How big is this house? Or is it a top and tail job?

Oh to be a footballer (even a perennial fourth division loanee!)

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The way Mowbray wants to play and his preference for wide forwards shouldn't be underestimated here he got 3 on his books for that berth so Chapman was always way down the pecking order.

Then factor in he signs expecting to be involved when he's fit enough to play but then is just left to graft for months in the U23s after proving himself fit. Obviously he should have got his head down but i can see why an immature young lad might become quickly fed up when he's looking at the first team stuttering about with strikers playing wide. 

Seems a 2 way stand off this so they should get him in the squad pre season and beast him into fitness and give him a real chance. He could be the game changer from the bench we crave but old plodder prefers to replace one wide striker with another. No wonder we rarely rescue games or turn them around late on.

Anybody doubting the value of real wingers should take a look at  " The road to Cardiff " in the nostalgia thread, Duff, Gillespie, Hignett, Mahon. They cut teams to pieces out wide. I'd make Mowbray watch it for a start.

[tomphil]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody doubting the value of real wingers should take a look at  " The road to Cardiff " in the nostalgia thread, Duff, Gillespie, Hignett, Mahon. They cut teams to pieces out wide. I'd make Mowbray watch it for a start.

When you look back just a few years to Bowyers time the legendary 'right good go' was born out of many frantic last ten mins at home with Marshall moved across to the left.  Rescued quite a few games like that and least gave the crowd a few mins entertainment after the usually tedious previous 80.

Chapman doing a cameo coming on the right if Armstrong is on and cutting inside could have a similar effect maybe. Anything to try and create a few chances or win a penalty or something. 

[dingles staying down 4ever]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody doubting the value of real wingers should take a look at  " The road to Cardiff " in the nostalgia thread, Duff, Gillespie, Hignett, Mahon. They cut teams to pieces out wide. I'd make Mowbray watch it for a start.

It wasn't just from the wings though. With Dunn in the middle coming from midfield. What it gave was plenty of variation and teams could not work out where attacks could build so could do things like double up on one winger. This is turn made a wingers job easier.

Chapman on his own won't make an impact in this team with the likes of SG and our static midfield an opposition will just double up on Chapman and nulify him. It would take a fundamental change from Rovers and Mowbray not that brave.

Edited July 24, 2020 by dingles staying down 4ever

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, renrag said:

Agree! I struggle to think of any successful team who didn’t have a regular supply of chances coming from out wide. A notable exception being the 66 wold cup of course

Mm, we been hammering away at ten man Argentina for ages but it was a left wing cross from Peters that Geoff Hurst flick headed in that beat them. The  3rd goal in the Final came from an Alan Ball cross from out wide also. I take your point though. Ramsey had taken three wingers to the Finals, Connelly. Paine, and Ian Callaghan but none them impressed enough to stay in the team and he had two midfield players out wide.

[Mercer]

35 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He may well do but its far too soon to predict that. He needs to play at a lower level for the time being but 21 is not old no matter which world class talents you bring into the conversation.  I keep saying it but ability is relative to the level you are at ie Carter is being judged at Championship level.  The point I try and make is that players at 18, 19, 20 etc, if they are going to be 'real players' for their club then they've battered down the first team door and are regulars whether that club is La Liga, PL, Championship, Div 1 or Div 2.

 

[LeftWinger]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Carter is not 'only a boy' - he is 21 years of age this year.

As I have said before, ability is relative to the level you play at.  IMO, if Carter was going to be a player for us at Championship level, at his age, he should already have broken through or shown much more composure and dominance in his two games for us.

I know this is a bit of an exception, but at 21, the Premier League's Golden Boot winner was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels.

He joined Halifax Town at 23 for £15,000.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

15 minutes ago, dingles staying down 4ever said:

It wasn't just from the wings though. With Dunn in the middle coming from midfield. What it gave was plenty of variation and teams could not work out where attacks could build so could do things like double up on one winger. This is turn made a wingers job easier.

Chapman on his own won't make an impact in this team with the likes of SG and our static midfield an opposition will just double up on Chapman and nulify him. It would take a fundamental change from Rovers and Mowbray not that brave.

I accept that team then was light years ahead of what we have now but the point still stands that defenders don't like getting turned around by players getting up the side of the defence.

Watching that old film just reminded me how influential Tugay was also. The bloke was magic. The best passer of a ball I've ever seen in a Rovers shirt.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Mattyblue]

Just now, LeftWinger said:

I know this is a bit of an exception, but at 21, the Premier League's Golden Boot winner was playing for Stocksbridge Park Steels.

He joined Halifax Town at 23 for £15,000.

Harry Maguire was playing in League 1 at 21...

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Harry Maguire was playing in League 1 at 21...

Watching him against Chelsea that looked to be his level.

[dingles staying down 4ever]

6 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I accept that team then was light years ahead of what we have now but the point still stands that defenders don't like getting turned around by players getting up the side of the defence.

Watching that old film just reminded me how influential Tugay was also. The bloke was magic. The best passer of a ball I've ever seen in a Rovers shirt.

I agree but my point still stands an isolated winger is easy to defend by doubling up on him. Another factor that I forget was that he also needs players in the box that can attack a ball. The goal against Reading was the only time I saw SG attack a ball in the box, usually he is out wide or still on the half way line.

Also full backs who know how to attack.

 

As you say we are light years away.

Edited July 24, 2020 by dingles staying down 4ever

[rigger]

1 hour ago, 47er said:

Surely that could be coached by someone else is what I mean.

So what we need is new coaches, not new players. That would be a lot more budget friendly.

[K-Hod]

55 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

How big is this house? Or is it a top and tail job?

Oh to be a footballer (even a perennial fourth division loanee!)

If he still has the same one, it’s a new build in Whalley just after that mini roundabout.

(My mate is a neighbour).

[47er]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

So what we need is new coaches, not new players. That would be a lot more budget friendly.

I didn't say that! You said that!

[Admiral Nelsen]

36 minutes ago, tomphil said:

When you look back just a few years to Bowyers time the legendary 'right good go' was born out of many frantic last ten mins at home with Marshall moved across to the left.  Rescued quite a few games like that and least gave the crowd a few mins entertainment after the usually tedious previous 80.

Chapman doing a cameo coming on the right if Armstrong is on and cutting inside could have a similar effect maybe. Anything to try and create a few chances or win a penalty or something. 

Funnily enough, I think Bowyer's time is a perfect microcosm of the benefits and drawbacks of playing with out and out wingers.

Our best spell by far was when we had King and Conway on both wings, with Rhodes and Gestede up front. We looked so dangerous that way and both strikers scored a bag-full of goals, but I'm not sure we ever really controlled a game, even with the likes of Cairney in the middle. I think with hindsight you can make a good argument that Bowyer sticking to his system of something which looked like two wingers (apart from when Cairney was cutting in) as a part of 442 was one of the main reasons why we didn't get the most out of that squad, even if it meant the front two were prolific. 

[rigger]

Just now, 47er said:

I didn't say that! You said that!

Correct I did say it. It’s also what I believe 

[J*B]

I’ve been told they want a German left back called Harthez and Conor Ripley (son of Stuart) from PNE. May or may not be true. 

[47er]

Just now, rigger said:

Correct I did say it. It’s also what I believe 

Well I do not believe we don't need new players and that doesn't follow at all from my post. 

[J*B]

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/107996/Show/Florian-Hartherz

This guy. 

[RoversClitheroe]

5 minutes ago, J*B said:

I’ve been told they want a German left back called Harthez and Conor Ripley (son of Stuart) from PNE. May or may not be true. 

Good stuff we're actually chasing people now. Does this mean we now have a budget?

Good keeper Conor, we went to school together.

Edited July 24, 2020 by RoversClitheroe

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, J*B said:

 Conor Ripley (son of Stuart) from PNE. 

Sounds like another lazy Mowbray signing.  Team mates son. More jobs for the boys