Summer Transfer Window

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

related to our overall wage budget which is one of the lowest in the league. 

Therein lies the problem.  According to our CEO it isn't. He said it was mid way, not among the lowest.

But even if you are correct and it is 'among the lowest in the league' why is it causing us to lose £20 million per year? By comparison clubs really at the low end - Preston, Rotherham, Barnsley, Brentford, Millwall - lose a fraction of that amount. Doesnt add up in Venkyland.

[Gamst]

The issue with a wage structure like the one Waggott describes is that you then have to recruit expertly to have any chance of progressing. This is presumably the plan given the recent investment in the recruitment team. It would require a massive upturn in the quality of our transfer activities to convince me that we can make this model work! Mowbray's signings have been hit and miss so far and this summer the recruitment team have achieved 1 senior signing and the other players they have attempted to sign have all chosen not to join us and they are all players who shouldn't have required any scouting (played in our division and all widely known to be available). Must do better. 

[tomphil]

Pretty similar soundbytes coming out to when we 'missed out' on Bauer. Just before he signed for PNE who were on 10k pwk max cap at the time.

Then we signed Downing and Tosin who would easily have cost at least 30 grand per week combined for a year.

 

[Fraserkirky]

JRC is more than capable of playing RB in the absence of Nyambe and 100 times better than Bennett, scratch this back up RB need. Everyone wants to see him further forward for some reason, in this system a rampaging RB is probably the best spot for him in the team. 

Its gonna be Arma-Dack-Brereton when all fit, so aint starting further forward, just like the NBA, 6th man is the first guy off the bench, thats JRC this year, the ultimate utility man.

Edited September 9, 2020 by Fraserkirky

[RevidgeBlue]

54 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Losing Tosin,Downing and Walton will send us down?

The other departures played bit parts.

We need new signings but go down?We won't 

Brave words, we might not be far off, hope those words come back to haunt you!

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

10 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Therein lies the problem.  According to our CEO it isn't. He said it was mid way, not among the lowest.

But even if you are correct and it is 'among the lowest in the league' why is it causing us to lose £20 million per year? By comparison clubs really at the low end - Preston, Rotherham, Barnsley, Brentford, Millwall - lose a fraction of that amount. Doesnt add up in Venkyland.

It is now, the chart was provided to you for last season a few weeks ago when we had the original discussion. I can't be arsed going back to look for it.

I'm not defending Venkys or Waggott BTW. I'm sure an accountant on here can explain the losses of £20m. But as previously discussed, Mowbray has spent a lot of money relative to the clubs you mention and recouped very little. Hence some of the losses. 

Edited September 9, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[bluebruce]

12 minutes ago, Fraserkirky said:

JRC is more than capable of playing RB in the absence of Nyambe and 100 times better than Bennett, scratch this back up RB need. Everyone wants to see him further forward for some reason, in this system a rampaging RB is probably the best spot for him in the team. 

Its gonna be Arma-Dack-Brereton when all fit, so aint starting further forward, just like the NBA, 6th man is the first guy off the bench, thats JRC this year, the ultimate utility man.

Yeh that's why it was the last priority I listed for a specific position, and more a case of leftover funds or new funds from a sale, as JRC looks a very capable cover there (how good he is defensively can't be fully judged yet though). But no I still want him further forward when possible. He isn't really a defender despite some time there in the u23s, so not the best spot to develop him.

He might not make the front 3 but we have a middle 3 too. I'm suspecting JRC's performances are going to be too good and consistent for him to just be the utility man off the bench. Although you never know what Tony will do...

Edited September 9, 2020 by bluebruce

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, OssyLad said:

Get a grip lad, we could end up like Bolton and Bury any day if venkys decide to pull the plug. Which I hope won’t be soon. I’d rather us be sensible in the market rather than go all out and end up shit creek due ffp. Most Rovers fans these days need to pull there heads out of the sand. We can’t compete anymore. Our fan base is shocking for one and 2 we don’t have the appeal anymore

its all down to venkys and how badly they got advised and slowly but surely they’re trying to put it right, but it’s gonna take time 

You’re new, and more than a little naive - “lad”.

”Our fanbase is shocking” - I wonder why that is?

FFS

[1864roverite]

So we are not going down?

The defence in the last 9 games shipped goal after goal. Luton, Barnsley, millwall, reading, Cardiff,Wigan and Bristol put 14 goals last us with ease. There has been no improvement in the back 4 in fact it’s a very weakened defence as I see it.

Nothing I see of our current team fills me with confidence in keeping clean sheets.

We might score goals but it is pretty clear we will ship at an alarming rate UNLESS we see a big hairy arsed defender who isn’t afraid to put his head where it hurts!

[Guest]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

@RovingRover @JoeH

Can you explain what type of centre defender McKenna and his strong points and weaknesses? 

Thanks

Scott McKenna
Age: 23
Position: Centre-Back
Foot: Left
Club: Aberdeen
Nationality: Scottish ???????
Contract Expiry: 30/06/2023

Player Heat-Map:

Defensive Capabilities: (In Brackets = Darragh Lenihan Comparison)
Aerial Duels Won %: 66.9% (61%)
Aerial Duels Won Per Game: 8.35 (8.37)
Tackle Success %: 73.7% (65.4%)
Yellow Cards Per Match: 0.14 (0.30)
Interceptions Per Game: 5.14 (7.11)

Passing Capabilities: (In Brackets = Darragh Lenihan Comparison)
Pass Accuracy %: 78.4% (78.9%)
Passes Per Game: 36.7 (43.3)
Passes To Final 3rd Per Game: 6.73 (8.98)
Long Passes Per Game: 6.77 (9.00)

In essence, McKenna is much more rough and tough than Lenihan, a physical presence and a more traditional defender. At 6ft 2" McKenna has a little bit more physicality about his game, and can win a few more headers. He's not a passer, nothing like Tosin, and he doesn't fit Mowbray's style of play particularly well. He has some of the best defensive stats in Scotland however, and his tackling and defensive capabilities are better than, but at the least equal to, Darragh Lenihan's (our undisputed best centre-back).

Being left-footed massively helps him, and would massively help us. A combative centre-half like Lenihan who can comfortably play on the left hand side of a two is exactly what I believe would be great. I think Naby Sarr with his left foot and 6ft 4" presence also fits this bill, and he's a freebie!

 

[blondie]

6 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

hairy arsed

Can just imagine this included in players stats.

[OssyLad]

7 minutes ago, Stuart said:

You’re new, and more than a little naive - “lad”.

”Our fanbase is shocking” - I wonder why that is?

FFS

Not naive, more realistic LAD

[K-Hod]

The few takeaways from the last few pages of posts and my views on them all....

1- I don’t mind that we have a salary cap, I’d rather we were more prudent financially, as we are a shit ton in debt. 
2- My eternal confusion of our transfer policy is that surely, it can’t be a mystery how much players cost and how much they want to be paid. I accept I don’t work in football and have no clue about transfers, but surely, the first things you’d ask are the fee and wages?!

3- We are three days away from the start of the season and we haven’t stopped faffing yet.

[Ricky]

Ok. So if we aren’t going to sign anyone we will be relying on Carter, Magloire and Wharton to fill the gap of Tosin and Williams.

Now if the manager has seen enough of them in training to believe that they are the answer it’s on his head. I would also say that at 20, 21, and 22 they are all old enough to make an impact at this level. Ben White was 21 when he went out on loan to Leeds and now been subject to a £25m offer. I’m not worried about their age if they are deemed good enough. Tosin was 21 when he joined us so he’s bang in the middle of the three players that we have available.

If there isn’t any money there then let’s just come out an say that we are going to bring our own youth players through instead of improving City’s players for them. Give them the chance to shine and let’s see how we go. 

[Stuart]

3 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

So we are not going down?

The defence in the last 9 games shipped goal after goal. Luton, Barnsley, millwall, reading, Cardiff,Wigan and Bristol put 14 goals last us with ease. There has been no improvement in the back 4 in fact it’s a very weakened defence as I see it.

Nothing I see of our current team fills me with confidence in keeping clean sheets.

We might score goals but it is pretty clear we will ship at an alarming rate UNLESS we see a big hairy arsed defender who isn’t afraid to put his head where it hurts!

A lot depends on Kaminski. He could be the next Friedel - or the next Steele.

I just don’t know how many 12-15th place finishes we can last though before we are eventually put into admin (or with any luck sold to more interested owners). 10 years coming up - are there any statutes of limitations, I wonder?

If we don’t buy better players we will eventually be relegated. They are certainly taking us there.

[Fraserkirky]

8 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Yeh that's why it was the last priority I listed for a specific position, and more a case of leftover funds or new funds from a sale, as JRC looks a very capable cover there (how good he is defensively can't be fully judged yet though). But no I still want him further forward when possible. He isn't really a defender despite some time there in the u23s, so not the best spot to develop him.

He might not make the front 3 but we have a middle 3 too. I'm suspecting JRC's performances are going to be too good and consistent for him to just be the utility man off the bench. Although you never know what Tony will do...

Yeah I liked your post man. 

Don't see him in the front three, don't see him in the midfield three either, with the numbers we have there.

The way Tony is playing this 4-3-1-2 formation(How I see it) is with a sitter in the middle of the midfield(Hopefully Holtby if he can stay fit, or an ideal spot for Morsy) so the full backs are more like wingbacks. JRC excelled as a right wingback in the under 23s and has an unbelievable engine on him. No disgrace being the 12th man so to speak.

[RevidgeBlue]

30 minutes ago, RoverKyle said:

Because he was out of contract and no longer earning £35k a week.

I accept he might not quite be able to command £35 or £40k p.w. again elsewhere but the fact he's a free agent would tend to drive his wage up rather than down. 

[JHRover]

20 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It is now, the chart was provided to you for last season a few weeks ago when we had the original discussion. I can't be arsed going back to look for it.

I'm not defending Venkys or Waggott BTW. I'm sure an accountant on here can explain the losses of £20m. But as previously discussed, Mowbray has spent a lot of money relative to the clubs you mention and recouped very little. Hence some of the losses. 

Waggott said we were mid way on wages during the 2018--19 season when we were back in the Championship.

So we somehow dropped from being mid way in 2018 to towards the bottom end in 2019-20? How did that happen? 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 minutes ago, OssyLad said:

Not naive, more realistic LAD

Stop calling everyone "lad".

Unless you're about 90.

[Stuart]

Just now, OssyLad said:

Not naive, more realistic LAD

Oh, I thought you said ‘badly advised’. I guess you meant something else. After 10 years that doesn’t wash any more.

[TBTF]

13 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

It is now, the chart was provided to you for last season a few weeks ago when we had the original discussion. I can't be arsed going back to look for it.

I'm not defending Venkys or Waggott BTW. I'm sure an accountant on here can explain the losses of £20m. But as previously discussed, Mowbray has spent a lot of money relative to the clubs you mention and recouped very little. Hence some of the losses. 

Not all about playing wages though. I thought that was around £18 million and of offset by tv and gate income probably takes us down to a £10 million deficit . Then you have an army of employees - think there were about 240 of them all told In the accounts .( including £350k for Waggott alone). Then you have academy / junior teams, ladies teams travelling midweek to places like Southampton / charlton / Brighton, first team travel and hotels and a stadium to run . There will be frightening costs and wastage in areas we barely even consider .How many staff cars do we run?? I bet travel and hotels alone across the club as a whole will be eye watering . I bet taking nearly 30 staff and players to an away game will be plenty and that’s just 23 league games for one team .What would the Pre season In Portugal cost for a week for 40 or so players and staff? It’s mental .
All adds up  But whatever it’s an awful lot more than simply squad wages and agents fees.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

The whole policy makes no sense to me.  It's like saying we could spend £4million on a player...but only if they come on £10k a week - which isn't commensurate with that kind of fee....so we don't sign anybody.  

No wonder we can't get any decent players through the door.  Certainly not from the Prem or top half champ clubs.  

Surely there's ways of navigating the structure for a player on a free.  Large signing on fee but lower wage etc.

[roversfan99]

8 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Scott McKenna
Age: 23
Position: Centre-Back
Foot: Left
Club: Aberdeen
Nationality: Scottish ???????
Contract Expiry: 30/06/2023

Player Heat-Map:

Defensive Capabilities: (In Brackets = Darragh Lenihan Comparison)
Aerial Duels Won %: 66.9% (61%)
Aerial Duels Won Per Game: 8.35 (8.37)
Tackle Success %: 73.7% (65.4%)
Yellow Cards Per Match: 0.14 (0.30)
Interceptions Per Game: 5.14 (7.11)

Passing Capabilities: (In Brackets = Darragh Lenihan Comparison)
Pass Accuracy %: 78.4% (78.9%)
Passes Per Game: 36.7 (43.3)
Passes To Final 3rd Per Game: 6.73 (8.98)
Long Passes Per Game: 6.77 (9.00)

In essence, McKenna is much more rough and tough than Lenihan, a physical presence and a more traditional defender. At 6ft 2" McKenna has a little bit more physicality about his game, and can win a few more headers. He's not a passer, nothing like Tosin, and he doesn't fit Mowbray's style of play particularly well. He has some of the best defensive stats in Scotland however, and his tackling and defensive capabilities are better than, but at the least equal to, Darragh Lenihan's (our undisputed best centre-back).

Being left-footed massively helps him, and would massively help us. A combative centre-half like Lenihan who can comfortably play on the left hand side of a two is exactly what I believe would be great. I think Naby Sarr with his left foot and 6ft 4" presence also fits this bill, and he's a freebie!

 

Out of interest, is that bottom conclusive paragraph based solely on the stats ot based on watching him play? I have not seen him play much and would be wary to come to a conclusion based solely on data.

For me though, being good on the ball is a luxury at the moment. Kipre and Ayala are very much old school defenders, neither will bring it out from the back but both can do the basics and defend. The issue with McKenna seems to be the price.

Same with full back. Rankin Costello there would give us more going forward compared to Nyambe but even v Doncaster he was run ragged by the winger. We wont stop conceding if we prioritise playing it out from the back over solidity.

Not sure on Sarr either. As the "second" centre back maybe but as an actual defender there seems to be more questions than answers surrounding him. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

2- My eternal confusion of our transfer policy is that surely, it can’t be a mystery how much players cost and how much they want to be paid. I accept I don’t work in football and have no clue about transfers, but surely, the first things you’d ask are the fee and wages?!

 

That for me is the crux of the matter. It surely is a matter of one phone call to the player's agent to ascertain their approximate demands yet we make it sound like it's rocket science. It is surely then a relatively simple matter to assess whether or not there's a bit of leeway for negotiation and whether or not it's worth spending time and effort pursuing the player.

Our tactic seems to be offer a fraction of what the player or selling Club want, hope they miraculously and for no good reason cave in at the last minute then act all surprised and hurt when someone comes in offering the actual asking price.

[CambridgeRover]

It is interesting the club never shut up about the wage and finance structure they have in place ........

After we fucking paid 5 million for that donkey Gallagher