Summer Transfer Window

[roversfan99]

Just now, briansol said:

It is very hard to judge whether an U23 player is ready, especially in defensive positions where the physical aspect is such different. Attacking players is a bit easier because skill and pace translates easier. It was clear before last year that Buckely had outgrewn U23 when dominating every match. JRC, Butterworth were similar clear options that was ready for next step. Vale showed also good signs. 

On the other hand, Magloire had it to easy in the U23 because he was stronger and faster then everybody. U23 football is also quite different from Championship because it's very techinal, played to feet and little physical combat for a centre-back. Think it was a massive shock for Magloire when he faced Joe Garner and Steven Fletcher who are clever operators.

I like Lewis Thompson, great engine and can deliver a cross. He never plays badly, but not a standout performer either. I see more potential in Dan Pike on right back, he's a few years younger, very mature, great decision making both defensivly and offensively. 

I also think attacking players can be dipped in and out, sub appearances, cameos, or even if they start they can be subbed off with little harm done if its not working. You dont tend to change the defence really unless there is an injury.

Very true on Magloire. There are seemingly still doubts over Wharton with 80 odd appearances under his belt.

[Leonard Venkhater]

9 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I think first 11 wise we have been close but our tactical play and defence was dire.  Now we seem to have kids coming through and a game plan for the season.  The stars are aligning...

Like the secret of good comedy, I think it is all about timing. Finance aside(lol) the timing is right now, given the array of talent.

Mostly, we have been miles away from the top 6 for nearly a decade. I can't remember such a long period of mediocre non-challenge.

The one time we did have a good enough squad with Rhodes, Gestede, King, Cairney, Baptiste, Kean etc, the Venky's were content with a novice, low-cost manager!

[Cherry Blue]

16 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

This.  He looks good Dolan but he's very untested. How would he cope up against a fast physical fullback etc? 

Didn't see him starting, was thinking more of an impact tricky sub. Yesterday against a very poor side was the right thing to do but to start against thug defenders might not work. 

How much did we pay PNE?? (?). There's got to be a song. Ok he's not "...he came from Real Madrid, he didn't cost a quid...." but we've plenty of time to make one up. 

[1864roverite]

38 minutes ago, briansol said:

It is very hard to judge whether an U23 player is ready, especially in defensive positions where the physical aspect is such different. Attacking players is a bit easier because skill and pace translates easier. It was clear before last year that Buckely had outgrewn U23 when dominating every match. JRC, Butterworth were similar clear options that was ready for next step. Vale showed also good signs. 

On the other hand, Magloire had it to easy in the U23 because he was stronger and faster then everybody. U23 football is also quite different from Championship because it's very techinal, played to feet and little physical combat for a centre-back. Think it was a massive shock for Magloire when he faced Joe Garner and Steven Fletcher who are clever operators.

I like Lewis Thompson, great engine and can deliver a cross. He never plays badly, but not a standout performer either. I see more potential in Dan Pike on right back, he's a few years younger, very mature, great decision making both defensivly and offensively. 

Football is a very easy game! Pass, move, simple ?

[MarkBRFC]

2 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

That’s the worry. Though both TM and Swag have talked about ‘selling a Maddison’ and then reinvesting and going up the season after...so fingers crossed

I love how its so flippant like its that easy.

Could name you plenty of players that we have sold over the years for big money, not once have we been a better side the year after.

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

I love how its so flippant like its that easy.

Could name you plenty of players that we have sold over the years for big money, not once have we been a better side the year after.

Absolutely. The problem is too, our goals are concentrated in to one player at the moment, or when Dack returns, it will be 2. Remove them and it is perhaps then when we really curse the signings of Brereton and Gallagher unles they start contributing at that point. 

It is very rare that a team selling their star player will not pocket at least a decent chunk of the money too. Plus if you are signing 2 or 3, you have the additional wages to factor in and the money soon starts to vanish.

[LDRover]

37 minutes ago, Cherry Blue said:

Didn't see him starting, was thinking more of an impact tricky sub. Yesterday against a very poor side was the right thing to do but to start against thug defenders might not work. 

How much did we pay PNE?? (?). There's got to be a song. Ok he's not "...he came from Real Madrid, he didn't cost a quid...." but we've plenty of time to make one up. 

He came from PNE, We signed him on a free?

[Leonard Venkhater]

30 minutes ago, LDRover said:

He came from PNE, We signed him on a free?

And he really is from Brazil. I must have missed that...

[roversfan99]

It is a difficult conundrum regarding either signing 1 for a fee or 2 or 3 on loan. 

Firstly, I definitely think that the goalposts have changed since Thursday when Mowbray said he had a meeting. Maybe it is partially down to the Ayala deal. We have gone from wanting 3 or 4 and being close to a left back on Thursday morning, to now seemingly be contemplating our next step in regards to how to use the budget on seemingly less players.

We also have to consider where we think we are and how far away we could be. In terms of short term v long term, our best chance might come this season because I cannot see Armstrong or Dack being here next season if we dont go up, and then there is a lot of work to do with Brereton, Gallagher etc obviously not capable of scoring regularly. I am not convinced that we are THAT close to the top 6 however.

It also depends on how much flexibility/compromise there is there. Left back is far and away the weakest position for us but we also cannot have a season whereby Fisher could at any minute be needed because he is nowhere near up to it. If we could sign a permanent left back with the majority of our remaining budget and get a cheap experienced keeper on a free then that would be ideal. I also think we need a central midfielder and another attacker who can play wide, but not as critically. 

We also need to put some emphasis on longer term planning, we tend to lack proactivity regarding contracts. As touched upon, our main 2 players who are likely to generate transfer interest are both here until 2022, I dont think either will be here next season if we dont go up. I would be surprised if either will sign a new deal at the moment either. Nyambe is the obvious elephant in the room, the tribunal fee is a bit of a consolation if the worst case scenario unfolds although I dont think that any Premier League team would be interested, although that might change after another season. We have to prioritise that contract. Rankin Costello is less important but I dont think any other teams will be looking at him, I doubt he is on much money so it makes sense to give him a new deal, even if hes seen as a versatile squad player at the moment. I would be happy to give Holtby another year, whereas with Evans and Johnson, theres less urgency, probably 2 big earners, not 100% convinced for different reasons which to give a new deal to but probably not both so let that run for the time being. Mulgrew and Bennett, 100% released.

My main worry is that Mowbray doesnt appreciate quite how bad Bell is. He did publically question him last year for his consistency (I think he has been consistently shite to be fair to him) and obviously signed Cunningham which didnt work out for long due to injury, then even put Downing there. But he said yesterday that he is doing well, and that it isnt the priority. Looking at what may have changed, we play a different way and there is a myth that Bell is a better attacking full back, which he isnt. And he was messing around with the left back area at a time when we had a keeper and a centre back on loan, the 2 main priorities he had in his mind to spend on this summer, and also at a time when Downing was here and Travis was fit.

[darrenrover]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Like the secret of good comedy, I think it is all about timing. Finance aside(lol) the timing is right now, given the array of talent.

Mostly, we have been miles away from the top 6 for nearly a decade. I can't remember such a long period of mediocre non-challenge.

The one time we did have a good enough squad with Rhodes, Gestede, King, Cairney, Baptiste, Kean etc, the Venky's were content with a novice, low-cost manager!

 

8 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

It is a difficult conundrum regarding either signing 1 for a fee or 2 or 3 on loan. 

Firstly, I definitely think that the goalposts have changed since Thursday when Mowbray said he had a meeting. Maybe it is partially down to the Ayala deal. We have gone from wanting 3 or 4 and being close to a left back on Thursday morning, to now seemingly be contemplating our next step in regards to how to use the budget on seemingly less players.

We also have to consider where we think we are and how far away we could be. In terms of short term v long term, our best chance might come this season because I cannot see Armstrong or Dack being here next season if we dont go up, and then there is a lot of work to do with Brereton, Gallagher etc obviously not capable of scoring regularly. I am not convinced that we are THAT close to the top 6 however.

It also depends on how much flexibility/compromise there is there. Left back is far and away the weakest position for us but we also cannot have a season whereby Fisher could at any minute be needed because he is nowhere near up to it. If we could sign a permanent left back with the majority of our remaining budget and get a cheap experienced keeper on a free then that would be ideal. I also think we need a central midfielder and another attacker who can play wide, but not as critically. 

We also need to put some emphasis on longer term planning, we tend to lack proactivity regarding contracts. As touched upon, our main 2 players who are likely to generate transfer interest are both here until 2022, I dont think either will be here next season if we dont go up. I would be surprised if either will sign a new deal at the moment either. Nyambe is the obvious elephant in the room, the tribunal fee is a bit of a consolation if the worst case scenario unfolds although I dont think that any Premier League team would be interested, although that might change after another season. We have to prioritise that contract. Rankin Costello is less important but I dont think any other teams will be looking at him, I doubt he is on much money so it makes sense to give him a new deal, even if hes seen as a versatile squad player at the moment. I would be happy to give Holtby another year, whereas with Evans and Johnson, theres less urgency, probably 2 big earners, not 100% convinced for different reasons which to give a new deal to but probably not both so let that run for the time being. Mulgrew and Bennett, 100% released.

My main worry is that Mowbray doesnt appreciate quite how bad Bell is. He did publically question him last year for his consistency (I think he has been consistently shite to be fair to him) and obviously signed Cunningham which didnt work out for long due to injury, then even put Downing there. But he said yesterday that he is doing well, and that it isnt the priority. Looking at what may have changed, we play a different way and there is a myth that Bell is a better attacking full back, which he isnt. And he was messing around with the left back area at a time when we had a keeper and a centre back on loan, the 2 main priorities he had in his mind to spend on this summer, and also at a time when Downing was here and Travis was fit.

Great posts, very much how I see things.

 

Edited September 20, 2020 by darrenrover

[Guest]

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I also think some of the comparisons and predictions for Dolan, big money moves to Europe, comparisons to Eze and Bellingham are absolutely crazy after 1 League start, as good as it was. Im wary that people may be getting carried away which is fine now but when he hits an inevitable dip in form at that age, I hope theres not a similar overreaction. 

at some point you’re allowed to permit yourself the opportunity to actually enjoy a player at the club, get perhaps over-excited about a youngster and get your hopes up.

It’s not a criminal offence to enjoy these things. Allow yourself the freedom to be wrong in the future and enjoy a clearly exciting-to-watch player whilst we can?

In two years if Dolan didn’t do as well as hoped or as expected, nobody’s going to shoot you. Sometimes you’ll find it’s more fun for yourself if you allow the “overindulgence” of getting aboard the hype train.

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

at some point you’re allowed to permit yourself the opportunity to actually enjoy a player at the club, get perhaps over-excited about a youngster and get your hopes up.

It’s not a criminal offence to enjoy these things. Allow yourself the freedom to be wrong in the future and enjoy a clearly exciting-to-watch player whilst we can?

In two years if Dolan didn’t do as well as hoped or as expected, nobody’s going to shoot you. Sometimes you’ll find it’s more fun for yourself if you allow the “overindulgence” of getting aboard the hype train.

I am very much excited as to his start at the club and also very much enjoyed his performance yesterday, make no mistake.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

This.  He looks good Dolan but he's very untested. How would he cope up against a fast physical fullback etc? 

That's when you earn your corn as a winger. You have to keep wanting the ball, even really good players make mistakes and when they do you need to be ready to take advantage.  I don't get the feeling he's the sort of player that would go into his shell though

Edited September 20, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

I think first 11 wise we have been close but our tactical play and defence was dire.  Now we seem to have kids coming through and a game plan for the season.  The stars are aligning...

We've seen this before though only to see them quickly reeled in again TM's natural conservative attitude will kick in again sooner or later. Prospect of Derby will no doubt have him scrabbling through a million different team selections and tactics in his head.

I'd just keep trying to fan the flames of this lot and let them have a real go for now.

Edited September 20, 2020 by tomphil

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, LDRover said:

He came from PNE, We signed him on a free?

He came from A shit Hole and now he's scoring goals....

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Rankin Costello is less important but I dont think any other teams will be looking at him,

I think quite a few teams will be looking at him if we let his contract slide. 

46 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

But he said yesterday that he is doing well, and that it isnt the priority.

In fairness, he said he was doing 'ok'. He obviously doesn't really rate him or he wouldn't have brought Cunningham in. 

[roversfan99]

7 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I think quite a few teams will be looking at him if we let his contract slide. 

In fairness, he said he was doing 'ok'. He obviously doesn't really rate him or he wouldn't have brought Cunningham in. 

I dont think hes done anything at this moment to warrant anyone else taking a look, but it makes sense to try and get him signed

Regarding Bell, I just wonder if he thinks (wrongly IMO) that he has improved, that he is more suited to our current style (with no attacking threat id suggest not) or indeed with the players lost since Cunningham have left bigger weaknesses than Bell. (again I wouldnt agree)

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

This.  He looks good Dolan but he's very untested. How would he cope up against a fast physical fullback etc? 

I wonder how he does against Nyambe in training.

(I know training isnt the same intensity barometer as games, before anyone starts)

Edited September 20, 2020 by bluebruce

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

24 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's when you earn your corn as a winger. You have to keep wanting the ball, even really good players make mistakes and when they do you need to be ready to take advantage.  I don't get the feeling he's the sort of player that would go into his shell though

No.  He seems to have a good attitude but still early days.  Should be fun watching him scare a few seasoned defenders though.  Hopefully he's robust on the muscle injury front as well. 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

Just now, bluebruce said:

I wonder how he does against Nyambe in training.

(I know training isnt the same intensity barometer as games, before anyone starts)

To be fair he's usually on the right so up against Bell??‍♂️

[bluebruce]

3 minutes ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

To be fair he's usually on the right so up against Bell??‍♂️

No wonder he approaches games full of such confidence! Maybe this is why Tony is finding some value in Bell after all....

[darrenrover]

I also think (hope) the arrival of Dolan and his early form, could be just the kick up the arse that Harry Chapman probably needed. 

If Dolan continues as he's started and Chapman produces the form we all hope for, those 2 wide could terrorise defences.

[Vilesinner]

4 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Travis is quality, and in a team that wants to press high up the pitch you need Travis energy and tackling ability. We have no-one else like him in the team. When Mogga talks about higher priorities than a LB I'm pretty certain he means CM.

A back-up goalie rarely plays. Fisher can do that job. 

Eastham would be an even better number 2 imo. Got so serious skill with the ball at his feet.  Yeah tend to agree, I would sign Manning; can play midfield and left back. 

[joey_big_nose]

41 minutes ago, tomphil said:

We've seen this before though only to see them quickly reeled in again TM's natural conservative attitude will kick in again sooner or later. Prospect of Derby will no doubt have him scrabbling through a million different team selections and tactics in his head.

I'd just keep trying to fan the flames of this lot and let them have a real go for now.

Not sure why you think this when he has played a very aggressive 433 against Bournemouth and Newcastle.

[unleaded]

TM Hit the jackpot with Nolan ... He was in for both Lamptey & Atsu and they would have cost a bit to his budget plans 

TM singing his praises is even better ...He could easily have made him a scape goat after the Bournemouth game Like Big Sam did with Derbyshire but well done to TM for sticking by him ... Nolan paid him back big style ....