Mowbray: Stay or Go - A Poll

[Blue blood]

Let me be clear on a few things as the TM debate seems to twist things. 

1) I am not and never have been grateful for Venkys. They have destroyed the club in so many ways from the £120 million debt through to handing over continuing control to an agency. We were an established Premier League club and until they do not deserve any credit. Even then it would be grudging for the lost years but I digress. Mid table prem team is the standard of my Blackburn Rovers. A medium size club  but excellently and passionately run is what we were and what I expect.

 

2) Instead I have a joke club still a plaything of agents, with a terrible executive structure that doesn't allow virtual meetings and sees the manager answerable to his mate. They are clearly still ruled by agents, still make wrong decision after wrong decision, have rattled through a half dozen inadequate.imcumbants and generally we are now a Micky mouse operation.

 

3) TM is a bog standard average manager. Whilst he by comparison to most of the jokers under Vs better and has done some things right - getting us promoted, Dack and Armstrong, bringing through some youngsters of quality - proving he is not a total dud, there are too many mistakes for him to be considered a good manager. He is poor overall in the transfer window, and has blown the budget twice which is perversely impressive. He sticks with players for too long, well after they are shown out of their depth. He messes things up by playing players out of position and has winless runs that are clearly unacceptable. Long term the squad looks a mess 3 years in. All of which are huge negatives at best and criminally negligent at worse. 

 

Now factors 1 and 3 mean that TM is nowhere near good enough to manager Rovers. However factor 2 means that nothing better will come under Vs. this isn't a lack of ambition, being grateful to the owners, accepting of dumbed down standards as it rails against me that we aren't better run with a better manager. However until 2 goes we are never going to be or do better than TM however loathsome this concept is to accept. In light of this I find it hard to want rid of TM because the odds are almost certainly we will get someone worse and we may go down again and crash even harder. I guess you could say keep changing in the hope we get the right person in who can and does do better. I understand that argument and see the logic in it. The risks however perhaps outweigh the reward. If it doesn't work, the grwatwr likelihood is that is some duffer completely destroys the club. Given the odds, sticking with TM may be best. 

 

To use the oft favoured analogy of Rovers under Vs is that of being on critical life support machine, and being dependant on the one who put you on it to keep the machine switched on. In this analogy its like TM is the doctor. He isn't going to get you off life support but he won't shut it down. A new doctor may get you off life support and recovery but the greater likelihood is that he bumps you off for good. 

The question is do you take that risk? 

 

Bugger it. As I'm talking I am talking myself into thinking let's risk it as life support is no way/position to be in. But make no mistake that such a course is very risky and could kill the club for good. In fact is more likely to then to cure it. 

Anyhow the original aim of this was to show it's not an acceptance of Venkys or being conned that makes people reluctant to change managers but a recognition of how severe the consequences could well be 

 

[1864roverite]

I am not too sure who could do a better job and just who would be willing to take the job!

[Proudtobeblue&white]

4 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Me neither.

Me and a a lovely selection of our message board.

[Stuart]

If we listened to those people who say “there is nobody better” then Gary Bowyer would still be here and we’d be in the fourth tier.

[Norbert Rassragr]

I voted go, as this is the best Tony can do and we need promotion. If we are serious about promotion, then Hughton or a talented young foreign guy like Brentford, Huddesfield, Forest or Norwich have done. If we are going to slash budgets, and try and survive on ashoe string then Robins or Ainsworth should come in.

If Mowbray stays, then a slow drift towards a relegation battle will happen.

[simongarnerisgod]

2 minutes ago, Stuart said:

If we listened to those people who say “there is nobody better” then Gary Bowyer would still be here and we’d be in the fourth tier.

thats simply not true,bowyer was just a bit inexperienced but still nearly took us to the play offs,he did a good job

[Claytons Left Boot]

I voted ‘go’ but no need to add anything else as I would only be repeating what a variety of others on here have outlined.

For me, though, the hierarchy won’t sack him so, unless he walks himself, he ain’t going anywhere.

[Atko's Engine]

Leaving aside whether or not Mowbray deserves to stay (for the record I voted stay, & explained in the Leeds thread why he's not as bad as he is often made out to be), it is impossible to ignore the question of who might be appointed in his place should he be sacked.

Just rolling the dice is not a meaningful strategy, is it?  So those who are asking that question are entirely reasonable in doing so, and before he is sacked proper thought should be given to it.

In the real world, there's more to it than just "he's crap and should be sacked", howsoever we might wish it were otherwise. 

[Stuart]

12 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

thats simply not true,bowyer was just a bit inexperienced but still nearly took us to the play offs,he did a good job

When there was pressure increasing on Bowyer to go, fans said “who else could we get” and “nobody else would want to come here”.

What’s “simply not true” about that?

[unleaded]

Voted Go .. 

 

My Tip would be French Manager of Angers Stéphane Moulin...

52 Year Old and plays good Attractive football with a philosophy.. 

Took a small club to promotion, he has made all this while bringing through youngsters which have been sold on ... Pepe etc at Arsenal 

Deserves his chance ... 

[Blue blood]

Just now, unleaded said:

Voted Go .. 

 

My Tip would be French Manager of Angers Stéphane Moulin...

52 Year Old and plays good Attractive football with a philosophy.. 

Took a small club to promotion, he has made all this while bringing through youngsters which have been sold on ... Pepe etc at Arsenal 

Deserves his chance ... 

Good shout but who is his agent?

Tbh it is the agency ruling the roost that does it for me. There are plenty of other good managers out there who would be attainable for Rovers BUT we all know an agency picks our managers so anyone not off their client list won't ever get the job. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Good shout but who is his agent?

Tbh it is the agency ruling the roost that does it for me. There are plenty of other good managers out there who would be attainable for Rovers BUT we all know an agency picks our managers so anyone not off their client list won't ever get the job. 

Where's the list of their clients ?

[WacoRover]

I voted no, but he needs to be fully assessed at seasons end. If he rights the ship these last five, and we finish in the top half of the division, after our injuries, I do not see how it would help our situation going forward to fire him. 

This is beyond our scope, but he should absolutely not be sacked unless there is a clearly identified replacement. 

For those who voted to sack, why would you want him canned unless you have an idea who you would want? you might at least have 1-2 candidates in mind- McCarthy might be decent. Nigel Adkins (just throwing a name out), etc. 

[Darwen Rover 007]

Voted go, for all the reasons mentioned by many and ones I have added to the Mowbray thread.. Mowbray = Mediocrity he has peaked, he will win a few and lose a few but won't ever be able to deliver a sustained challenge.

I would bring Neil in from Preston, he would jump at the chance of joining us and lets be honest has over delivered massively at Preston! 

[Blue blood]

33 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Where's the list of their clients ?

Dunno. Maybe you can find it online..

Given it contains the likes of.TM, Lambert and Coyle I wouldn't hold much store in the list having any good ones. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Should have gone 18 months ago, and nothing has changed, in fact the situation becomes more compelling by the day.

If your only argument for keeping him is any potential replacement might be worse then, like Bowyer before him, you know his race is run and it's time for a change.

I really don't think the people supporting Mowbray realise how much trouble we're in. No keeper, one decent centre half, no decent LB, no cover at RB, one decent midfielder, no creative midfielder, no effective wide man and two of the five players on the books who are actually up to the job entering the final twelve months of their contract.

The situation reminds me a bit of when Lambert left us without a single senior striker on the books and then the owners sold our centre backs Duffy and Hanley in the close season before putting the final nail in the coffin by appointing Coyle. We all know what happened after that.

Chaddy talks glibly about selling Nyambe to plug a hole in the finances but if we do that and bring in another dolloper like Caddis, how is that going to help? Plus we wouldn't get anything near what Nyambe is worth entering the final year of his contract.

We need a skillful and astute operator in the transfer market, and we need him fast.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, simongarnerisgod said:

thats simply not true,bowyer was just a bit inexperienced but still nearly took us to the play offs,he did a good job

He'd run his race just like Mowbray has. We were going backwards, he had to go.

[Exiled in Toronto]

How many ‘Mowbray: Stay or Go’ polls is it now? How many names a normal club with a normal Board and a normal desire to progress would want to hire have been punted? It’d be a lot simpler just to change the date on one of the old polls.

[47er]

4 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I am not too sure who could do a better job and just who would be willing to take the job!

There's only one way to find out!

[RevidgeBlue]

51 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

How many ‘Mowbray: Stay or Go’ polls is it now? How many names a normal club with a normal Board and a normal desire to progress would want to hire have been punted? It’d be a lot simpler just to change the date on one of the old polls.

It's not unreasonable for supporters' views on a manager to change over time so it is interesting to see how that varies.

Imo a new poll needs to be conducted from scratch each time otherwise the old results would skew the new ones.

[WacoRover]

3 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Should have gone 18 months ago, and nothing has changed, in fact the situation becomes more compelling by the day.

If your only argument for keeping him is any potential replacement might be worse then, like Bowyer before him, you know his race is run and it's time for a change.

I really don't think the people supporting Mowbray realise how much trouble we're in. No keeper, one decent centre half, no decent LB, no cover at RB, one decent midfielder, no creative midfielder, no effective wide man and two of the five players on the books who are actually up to the job entering the final twelve months of their contract.

The situation reminds me a bit of when Lambert left us without a single senior striker on the books and then the owners sold our centre backs Duffy and Hanley in the close season before putting the final nail in the coffin by appointing Coyle. We all know what happened after that.

Chaddy talks glibly about selling Nyambe to plug a hole in the finances but if we do that and bring in another dolloper like Caddis, how is that going to help? Plus we wouldn't get anything near what Nyambe is worth entering the final year of his contract.

We need a skillful and astute operator in the transfer market, and we need him fast.

We may disagree in point on canning mowbray, but there is a lot I can agree with in this post. Much of the above is history, but we know if we don’t study history we are bound to repeat many mistakes.

 I’m just saying let’s wait 5 more games, to fully assess what went wrong this season, and what went right; Tony’s strengths & his weaknesses; who got hurt at critical times; what players need to be re-signed, need to be released, & who needs to retire. In the big scope of things, 5 games isn’t much. Also, as I stated elsewhere, unless Superman is already identified & ready to sign on the dotted line (I am guessing he’s a mystery man), we don’t want to saddle a caretaker/new gaffer with someone else’s headaches/nightmares. Let him start fresh.

 

[47er]

6 hours ago, WacoRover said:

We may disagree in point on canning mowbray, but there is a lot I can agree with in this post. Much of the above is history, but we know if we don’t study history we are bound to repeat many mistakes.

 I’m just saying let’s wait 5 more games, to fully assess what went wrong this season, and what went right; Tony’s strengths & his weaknesses; who got hurt at critical times; what players need to be re-signed, need to be released, & who needs to retire. In the big scope of things, 5 games isn’t much. Also, as I stated elsewhere, unless Superman is already identified & ready to sign on the dotted line (I am guessing he’s a mystery man), we don’t want to saddle a caretaker/new gaffer with someone else’s headaches/nightmares. Let him start fresh.

 

He's been here 3.5 years !! What more could I learn in 5 more games?

[Amo]

2 minutes ago, 47er said:

He's been here 3.5 years !! What more could I learn in 5 more games?

It's just stalling tactics.

Like someone said earlier, what if he gets off to a good start, only to revert back to type?

We'll be having the same discussion all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Amo said:

It's just stalling tactics.

Like someone said earlier, what if he gets off to a good start, only to revert back to type?

We'll be having the same discussion all over again. It's a vicious cycle.

If we won all 5 games I'd still want him to go (but we won't).

Edited July 6, 2020 by 47er

[philipl]

My issue with Mowbray is he makes too many mistakes.

We start off each season at minus 10 points at least because he loses us that many points net compared with other managers in this division.

If we ever get to the Premier League under him that figure would double because of the calibre of manager he would be facing.