Mowbray: Stay or Go - A Poll

[G Somerset Rover]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

We are a Championship club. Lots of people would want to manage us.

Exactly. I just don't understand people's argument against this. You're paid handsomely, given a decent budget for this division, can pretty much do what you want without repercussion. What's not to like?! You just need to bake Madame the odd lemon drizzle here and there.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Gavlar Somerset Rover!

[JHRover]

Since the lock down in March numerous clubs have fired or parted ways with their managers. Woodgate at Middlesbrough, Johnson at Bristol City, Jones at Luton, Clotet at Birmingham.

So I don't really buy the suggestion that Mowbray cannot or should not be fired because it wouldn't be affordable. 

I can see a good argument for keeping the existing staff to maintain stability through potentially choppy months ahead but if the need arises for a sacking there should always be room in the budget for that.

You should NEVER keep a failing manager to save money. 

Arguably Mowbray hasn't or isn't failing but that's a different issue.

[Mattyblue]

Who wanted to manage a club trying to stay out of League 1 with a poor Championship budget in February 2017?

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

8 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Since the lock down in March numerous clubs have fired or parted ways with their managers. Woodgate at Middlesbrough, Johnson at Bristol City, Jones at Luton, Clotet at Birmingham.

So I don't really buy the suggestion that Mowbray cannot or should not be fired because it wouldn't be affordable. 

I can see a good argument for keeping the existing staff to maintain stability through potentially choppy months ahead but if the need arises for a sacking there should always be room in the budget for that.

You should NEVER keep a failing manager to save money. 

Arguably Mowbray hasn't or isn't failing but that's a different issue.

This is the thing, if he was to be reviewed from a pure business/HR sense, he could point to his record and say we have improved every season since he took over. An owner who is tuned into football, could see the situation is more nuanced than that. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

I thought we were always  ‘way down their list of priorities’, if the pandemic has pushed us even further down their list, then god help us next season.

We were on their list of priorities for five minutes back in 2010. Since then we've been at the back of the drawer.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

I honestly would not even go near a decision on the manager until the owners make their intentions clear.

If they pull the funding and authorise a fire sale then the last thing we need is them rolling the dice on a new manager with a disgruntled squad!

If we had to sell Dack and / or Lenihan or Travis I’d much prefer Mowbray to stay and integrate the young lads purely based on the fact that the lads do love him and he wouldn’t lose the dressing room.

If we're looking for someone to " integrate the lads" I would suggest that Mowbray's record in this respect is pretty poor. If that's the plan Johnno could well be a better bet.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Ah but let's be honest with this such a mixed record - which shows more bad than good - is pretty appalling. 

Mixed is a very clever term as it is vague and can be spun positively, whereas the context determines what rate of mixed is acceptable. For example at uni a mark of 70% is a first and therefore a good result, whereas 70% pass ratio for a safety check would be horrifically inadequate. 

So in the context of a football club a mixed ratio of successful signings is pretty poor. from this list given 50:50 would be the best ratio TM could be said to have with successful transfers (I think the list suggests it is worse but we will go with that for now.) So that means half of our signings are duds. Given probably two thirds of our squad is made up of signings and half of them are duds that means a third of them are dead weights because of TMs mixed transfer record. When we look at the context and examine the specifics we see this is far from positive but horrifically mixed. 

It gets worse when we consider the level of risk and opportunity costs of the failed signings too. After all a low-cost failure doesn't have the same negative costs as an expensive one. Hughes for example trialed a few failed strikers such as Jeffers (and Fowler). They stunk but at low cost the risk and damage was minimal. Contrast that with TM - the big signings have gone badly wrong the last 2 years and 2 of the 3 expensive ones in league 1 went badly too. Theres  a lot more damage from these signings being missed in terms of costs and not being able to respend the money or have used it elsewhere.

Also on this loans. Loans are to give you things you otherwise couldn't get. They are there to rent a better quality than you could buy, like Tosin. Problem is this better quality in than we can afford often hasn't been the case. The likes of Harper and Walton have been poor, but also use up slots that really should have been top quality. Slots that were an opportunity to get better than what we could buy. 

So yeah mixed is the word, and in the context of a football club that is a terrible result. 

 

I would suggest that getting 50% of your signings right would probably get you fired at a lot of clubs. Good managers get about 75% of their signings right. IE their signings become first tean regulars eventually. Going off the lists earlier in the thread I would suggest that Mowbray's success rate is about 20%, or being kind  25%. It's unbelievable that he's still here, only in football. In industry he would have been long gone after that sort of investment failure rate.

[Darwen Rover 007]

Do we need a new thread discussing suggested alternatives or can we do it here? 

Chris Hughton would definitely be an ideal candidate for me, getting him would be another thing! 

[Stuart]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Mowbray and his staff have two years left on their contracts.  Any change of manager at this point will mean a huge outlay in paying up their contracts and then employing a new manager and backroom team.  At a time when the pandemic is still going to restrict normal commercial activity within the game I suspect most clubs, Rovers included, will simply be happy to come through this period with the club intact.  

If the financial situation at the club is anywhere near as bad as it sounds then it points to players being sold and replacements being a combination of Under-23's, freebies and loans.  In the circumstances, I'm not sure how a change of manager, at this point, would do anything but plunge the club into further financial turmoil.  

Of course, with owners as unpredictable as ours, anything is possible but I suspect that their priorities at the moment are all in India with their own business and maintaining the support their Charitable Foundation gives to the people in the Pune area.  At the moment I suspect Ewood is way down on their list of priorities even though they seem to have no inclination to sell the club, indeed far from it looking at the money pumped in each year.

Welcome to Blackburn Rovers.

Happy to fund millions of pounds of losses season after season but don’t have enough money to pay off and replace a manager.

Sorry but if that is true there ought to be an investigation into the running of this club, as there are only two rationales that makes sense. One of which is utter incompetence and the other...

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, JHRover said:

We are a Championship club. Lots of people would want to manage us. 

Why does a cut budget automatically mean that we have to use young players? Why can't we just sign experienced players but on lower wages and fees? 

Surely we should be using our young players more next season like Buckley, Davenport Rankin Costello, Carter. Maybe Butterworth next season. 

Yes sign a couple of experience players like 1st choice keeper, possible centre back partnership next to Lenihan and left back like Cunningham. 

I not expect is signing anyone for a fee if the budget is cut

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Since the lock down in March numerous clubs have fired or parted ways with their managers. Woodgate at Middlesbrough, Johnson at Bristol City, Jones at Luton, Clotet at Birmingham.

 

Jones at Luton? He took over during the Pandemic. 

Clolet decide to leave Birmingham to go home to Spain for family reasons. But making it public was the worst thing they did, resulting in poor results  The club is a mess internal from what I heard one Birmingham fan. Who gets appoint permanent will be interested. 

 

[Mattyblue]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

  The club is a mess internal from what I heard one Birmingham fan. 

 

Mate of yours?

[JHRover]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Surely we should be using our young players more next season like Buckley, Davenport Rankin Costello, Carter. Maybe Butterworth next season. 

Yes sign a couple of experience players like 1st choice keeper, possible centre back partnership next to Lenihan and left back like Cunningham. 

I not expect is signing anyone for a fee if the budget is cut

Jones at Luton? He took over during the Pandemic. 

Clolet decide to leave Birmingham to go home to Spain for family reasons. But making it public was the worst thing they did, resulting in poor results  The club is a mess internal from what I heard one Birmingham fan. Who gets appoint permanent will be interested. 

 

But we've already used these fabled young players this season. Buckley hasn't done enough IMO. Butterworth has had a serious injury all season. Davenport is 22 soon so not what I would describe as young and for me hasn't done enough. Is he a better bet than Travis and Evans who have been an excellent partnership? Carter was put on the bench as a token gesture by Mowbray who then brought Mulgrew back from his exile when push came to shove and we had no other CB available.

if the budget is cut we don't need to pay fees. Good recruitment can be done with free agents but the decent ones will all be snapped up by the time.we get round to it.

I'm just curious why a cut to the budget automatically and immediately means we have to sell or throw in the kids. Surely we can keep our best players, free up cash with the deadwood going and bring in a few decent frees and loans rather than nothing?

I was talking about Graeme Jones at Luton who was fired during the pandemic and replaced with Nathan Jones.

So clubs can afford to change managers despite the pandemic if they feel it is necessary.

[chaddyrovers]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Mate of yours?

No 

[chaddyrovers]

11 minutes ago, JHRover said:

But we've already used these fabled young players this season. Buckley hasn't done enough IMO. Butterworth has had a serious injury all season. Davenport is 22 soon so not what I would describe as young and for me hasn't done enough. Is he a better bet than Travis and Evans who have been an excellent partnership? Carter was put on the bench as a token gesture by Mowbray who then brought Mulgrew back from his exile when push came to shove and we had no other CB available.

if the budget is cut we don't need to pay fees. Good recruitment can be done with free agents but the decent ones will all be snapped up by the time.we get round to it.

I'm just curious why a cut to the budget automatically and immediately means we have to sell or throw in the kids. Surely we can keep our best players, free up cash with the deadwood going and bring in a few decent frees and loans rather than nothing?

I was talking about Graeme Jones at Luton who was fired during the pandemic and replaced with Nathan Jones.

So clubs can afford to change managers despite the pandemic if they feel it is necessary.

My apologies about the Jones's at Luton. 

I agree there is some good free players around the UK and Europe. That's where I am hoping our new recruitment structure comes to the front and we can sign them. 

There is a number of different situations regarding the budget and whether our key players have to leave or might want to leave. Or the owners might want the club to balance budget meaning that Mowbray might have to sell one player to raise funds to buy or bring players in for instant. Or if a PL club bids for one of of best player can we afford to reject or do we sell and reuse the money to buy. We know that Mowbray did tell Mani and someone else at the supporter consultation meeting that he had a couple of line up so I wonder if they are still line up. 

 

[scotchrover]

Stay- the lowest we can finish in the top half the table, which is better than last year’s finish of 15th. Whatever you say, that’s progress. The best case scenario? 8th. I think we have the right to expect a top 6 finish next season though, unless we have a bad summer window. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On 17/07/2020 at 15:12, chaddyrovers said:

My apologies about the Jones's at Luton. 

I agree there is some good free players around the UK and Europe. That's where I am hoping our new recruitment structure comes to the front and we can sign them. 

There is a number of different situations regarding the budget and whether our key players have to leave or might want to leave. Or the owners might want the club to balance budget meaning that Mowbray might have to sell one player to raise funds to buy or bring players in for instant. Or if a PL club bids for one of of best player can we afford to reject or do we sell and reuse the money to buy. We know that Mowbray did tell Mani and someone else at the supporter consultation meeting that he had a couple of line up so I wonder if they are still line up. 

 

I don't think any of our players our " oven ready " for the Prem yet. That's not to say one or two of the younger ones might be the subject of bids with a view to future developments.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Could be worse:-

BBC Humberside to Grant McCann: “you didn’t have a shot on target all game”

Grant McCann: “Yeah, it’s something we need to work on”

?

Edited July 18, 2020 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama

[Mattyblue]

‘... but we entered their 18 yard box 27 times’

... I think he added 

[Sparks Rover]

On 17/07/2020 at 15:12, chaddyrovers said:

. We know that Mowbray did tell Mani and someone else at the supporter consultation meeting that he had a couple of line up so I wonder if they are still line up. 

Defenders Are Coming Chaddy, nay worries lah

[unleaded]

At least somebody questioned him like a good reporter should ....bravo to him 

[philipl]

Prior to Derby we were in a strong position to secure a play off place and what has followed has been utterly mediocre leavened by beating a Bristol City side that had lost its way, a very good win at Cardiff and nearly screwing up against Reading.

We have leaked goals for fun.

Mowbray mistakes are always going to cost us at least ten points a season so unless the Raos (and FFP is scrapped) are going to fund a squad good enough to get 90+ points, Premier League is impossible under Mowbray.

The Academy is yielding results.

Time to say thank you Tony and let Damien Johnson finish the job.

[philipl]

9 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Defenders Are Coming Chaddy, nay worries lah

Seriously, we need a damned good keeper and I would push the boat out on that signing.

One Greg Cunningham type signing or another season of Tosin and I think we are ok based on Carter's performance yesterday.

[47er]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Prior to Derby we were in a strong position to secure a play off place and what has followed has been utterly mediocre leavened by beating a Bristol City side that had lost its way, a very good win at Cardiff and nearly screwing up against Reading.

We have leaked goals for fun.

Mowbray mistakes are always going to cost us at least ten points a season so unless the Raos (and FFP is scrapped) are going to fund a squad good enough to get 90+ points, Premier League is impossible under Mowbray.

The Academy is yielding results.

Time to say thank you Tony and let Damien Johnson finish the job.

Damien worth a try if we are not going the experienced route. But change is necessary.

[Gav]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

Prior to Derby we were in a strong position to secure a play off place and what has followed has been utterly mediocre leavened by beating a Bristol City side that had lost its way, a very good win at Cardiff and nearly screwing up against Reading.

We have leaked goals for fun.

Mowbray mistakes are always going to cost us at least ten points a season so unless the Raos (and FFP is scrapped) are going to fund a squad good enough to get 90+ points, Premier League is impossible under Mowbray.

The Academy is yielding results.

Time to say thank you Tony and let Damien Johnson finish the job.

Why on earth would anyone want Damien Johnson as first team manager? What criteria do you base that decision on?

If someone said Gareth Ainsworth I could understand why, but a rookie coach with no experience, we've been down that road before and been burnt, badly.

No thanks.