Mowbray: Stay or Go - A Poll

[rovers11]

I have voted stay. There have been a couple of times this season where I have called for him to go, but once you strip back the emotion and look at it objectively we have had a decent season. We are where we should be imo with the squad we have; we’re not quite good enough for top 6. Plus, we have improved on last season, and that’s despite being without our best player for a large chunk of the season. 

There’s no doubt he’s made mistakes throughout the season. He also made two big mistakes in the summer transfer window last summer - using most of our transfer budget on Gallagher and getting rid of David Raya. 

Next season is a biggie. I expect us to make a firm push for the top 6, rather than just flirting with it. 

 

[roversfan99]

I never think the "we are where we should be" argument sits right really in terms of the current squad. The current squad is very much Mowbrays squad, and you are considering where we are when most of our resources have been blown on 2 contributing members of the squad by that very manager, how is that logical?

We will see how many points we end up on, I suspect now that we will surpass 60 points and he will be able to suggest progression, it is just how much progression.

He is very much on the line though for me. I am worried about stagnation, but we are in a position whereby we win a game, everyones hopes get back up, then we go on a bad run, then he plucks out a win at the right time. Am I convinced we will push beyond that? Certainly not. But maybe put me in the fickle category at the moment.

[Blue blood]

17 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Wasn’t BB scouted by Mowbray when he saw him stroll past Feeney and Williams near his technical area at Forest?

I'd like to think even TM would do a little bit more scouting then one match where he waltzed past two substandard players. If that's the level of scouting then we might as well just pick names at random to buy. 

[mhead]

I did not vote. But if you said we could replace him with Gareth Ainsworth then 'yes'.

The Club needs building up again , based on a Welcome Back to Ewood(including Venkys cos they are payrolling us)

The Team has to keep introducing younger players(on less wages) and the Club itself has to start marketing itself as an Unfashionable Alternative Club, which just so happens to be "The Most Successful Town Club in the World".

Lets get the seating sorted for 10,000 capacity from September onwards(during 2020) and then offer a £275 season ticket for the next Season(with 12 monthly payments of £25 pm) -ground only open to Season-Ticket Holders. Then start a Waiting List for Season Ticket Holders for  remainder of 2020/21 season.

The Club needs to think differently, even whilst they are focussed on this Season/ Virus tests/general 'fire-fighting'

Responses to [email protected] , currently in quarantine with I-follow in Sofia.

Recent Newsletter on www.roverstrust.co.uk got over 150 responses. Thanks.

[Mattyblue]

14 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I'd like to think even TM would do a little bit more scouting then one match where he waltzed past two substandard players. If that's the level of scouting then we might as well just pick names at random to buy. 

I was being a little facetious (I think )

[Miller11]

I was delighted with the result and most of the performances last night, but that quickly gave way to anger. 
 

Graham as an out and out centre forward, with Samuel grafting hard on one side and the pure quality of Armstrong on the other worked. We looked dangerous throughout and gave their defence a really tough time, and lo and behold, each of our front three scored a goal in keeping with their performance. Graham showed natural instinct, Samuel persevered and Armstrong’s was class.

As soon as we abandon the ludicrous false 9 nonsense and the hopeless Gallagher and Brereton are out of the front three, look what happens. The stubborn insistence from Mowbray to persevere with that crap for our previous three games has effectively sabotaged our chances of the playoffs.

I voted “Don’t care” in this poll. Normally my ire is focused towards Venky’s, but this is squarely on Mowbray. I’d fancy us to be 6 points better off were it not for his mind boggling selections and formations. I’m as pissed off with him as I’ve ever been.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, rovers11 said:

Next season is a biggie. I expect us to make a firm push for the top 6, rather than just flirting with it. 

Considering the amount of reinforcements we require just to stand still (thanks to multiple seasons of wonky transfer policy) and the likelihood of a small/non-existent budget I do not think that is a realistic expectation in all honesty. If TM remains I would be delighted with another mid table finish as I would be expecting us to be scrapping it out further down the table.

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 minutes ago, DE. said:

Considering the amount of reinforcements we require just to stand still (thanks to multiple seasons of wonky transfer policy) and the likelihood of a small/non-existent budget I do not think that is a realistic expectation in all honesty. If TM remains I would be delighted with another mid table finish as I would be expecting us to be scrapping it out further down the table.

We do have a lot of work to do, but there may be more players available on reasonable deals due to cut backs at other clubs. 

It just really depends on how commited the Venkys are in these challenging times

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We do have a lot of work to do, but there may be more players available on reasonable deals due to cut backs at other clubs. 

It just really depends on how commited the Venkys are in these challenging times

Problem is even if there are reasonable deals out there and we do have some kind of budget I'm not convinced Mowbray is the man to bring in the players we need. Not a single good permanent defender in the entire time he's been here, £12m flushed down the toilet on BB and SG, made a total mess of the goalkeeper position last summer, has made a habit of giving contract extensions to players who are at their limit in terms of usefulness... the only decent signings he's made recently are loans or players at the tail end of their careers. 

Decent fella and so on, but I won't be surprised if we are struggling in six months time. I just hope by then it isn't already too late.

[Gav]

19 minutes ago, DE. said:

Problem is even if there are reasonable deals out there and we do have some kind of budget I'm not convinced Mowbray is the man to bring in the players we need. Not a single good permanent defender in the entire time he's been here, £12m flushed down the toilet on BB and SG, made a total mess of the goalkeeper position last summer, has made a habit of giving contract extensions to players who are at their limit in terms of usefulness... the only decent signings he's made recently are loans or players at the tail end of their careers. 

Decent fella and so on, but I won't be surprised if we are struggling in six months time. I just hope by then it isn't already too late.

I understand the sentiment DE and you did say permanent, but Tosin is absolute quality, if he continues to improve he'll go a long way, so he can spot a player/defender when he see's one.

His buys upfront are his downfall, they've made no impact at all and the money involved clouds people views, they can't get past the money.

I'm not saying ignore £12m, of course I'm not, but if you took those buys away would his tenure be viewed in the same way on here? 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Gav

[DE.]

Just now, Gav said:

I understand the sentiment DE and you did say permanent, but Tosin is absolute quality, if he continues to improve he'll go a long way, so he can spot a player/defender when he see's one.

His buys upfront are his downfall, they've made no impact at all and the money involved clouds people views, they can't get past the money.

I'm not saying ignore £12m, of course I'm not, but if you took those buys away would his tenure be viewed in the same way on here? 

I was fairly unhappy with his overall transfer policy before the BB/SG purchases and my post history will back that up (although I'm sure you have much better things to do than trawl through that). For me personally those purchases make a bad situation much worse, but I can't speak for how others would view it. Just my personal thoughts on our transfer business since TM arrived, it may be a little on the harsh side.

As a reminder of our permanent signings since returning to the Championship...

Summer 2018:

Joe Rothwell 
Jacob Davenport
Adam Armstrong
Jack Rodwell

Winter 2019:

Ben Brereton
Harry Chapman

Summer 2019:

Stewart Downing
Bradley Johnson
Sam Galagher
Lewis Holtby

Winter 2020:
[no transfers in]

So, based on that am I confident of a long-term restructuring? Unfortunately no - and that is what we bought with a reasonable budget in place. This summer could potentially be a lot more difficult - or it could be the same as usual, I don't know. Either way at best I see us bringing in a couple of older heads on free transfers and a decent loan or two to just about keep the defence ticking along without actually improving it. I think expectations of genuine playoff contention with the current owners and management (at both board and playing level) is extremely optimistic at best. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Problem is even if there are reasonable deals out there and we do have some kind of budget I'm not convinced Mowbray is the man to bring in the players we need. Not a single good permanent defender in the entire time he's been here, £12m flushed down the toilet on BB and SG, made a total mess of the goalkeeper position last summer, has made a habit of giving contract extensions to players who are at their limit in terms of usefulness... the only decent signings he's made recently are loans or players at the tail end of their careers. 

Decent fella and so on, but I won't be surprised if we are struggling in six months time. I just hope by then it isn't already too late.

We could be alright, but hopefully not. His free and cost signings have been better than either of his "big" signings. 

First and foremost I would like us to keep the nucleus of our team. Not gonna be easy to replace Tosin though and the GK saga could continue to run. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we signed another loan. 

[Mashed Potatoes]

9 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

We could be alright, but hopefully not. His free and cost signings have been better than either of his "big" signings. 

First and foremost I would like us to keep the nucleus of our team. Not gonna be easy to replace Tosin though and the GK saga could continue to run. I wouldn't be at all surprised if we signed another loan. 

If the keeper is good - no problem if not ours - eg Henderson with Sheffield United.

[Tugay-is-God]

I'd somewhat question the fixed notion on here that somehow 12 million has definitively been wasted or "flushed away" on BB and Gallagher.

You'd only have to look back at last September/October when a lot of the same people were talking about the 14 million wasted on "three useless strikers" to see how quickly things can change and players can improve.

[BlackburnEnd75]

1 minute ago, Tugay-is-God said:

I'd somewhat question the fixed notion on here that somehow 12 million has definitively been wasted or "flushed away" on BB and Gallagher.

You'd only have to look back at last September/October when a lot of the same people were talking about the 14 million wasted on "three useless strikers" to see how quickly things can change and players can improve.

part of the problem with Armstrong is he was often deployed way too deep.

[Stuart]

7 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think if the squad loses any of its key players without strengthening we could be in trouble next season. It's imperative we don't lose anybody we don't want to lose.

I was just going to say similar. Our best XI is decent but it is ageing.

What I don’t understand is we play a certain way when Graham is on the pitch and it’s usually more successful. So why on earth hasn’t he been laying down the gauntlet to Gallagher or Brereton to be his long term replacement and get them doing in training what Graham does (or did over his time here) on the pitch?

Mowbray seems to have the idea that you have to chop and change the system depending on who you play instead of having a style of play and getting the players to be brilliant at it - and we are regularly found out. Case in point: Bennett should be understudy to Johnson in the middle and a utility player to cover injuries. He should not be starting at left back. Under any circumstances. A development player should be called up - it’s not like they are completely useless.

The folly of Bennett as captain must be lost on him. The personification of “Jack of all trades; Master of none” - that could be the title of Mowbray’s tactical handbook.

[DeeCee]

It's the Brereton/Gally thing that really gets me ?

[rovers11]

5 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I never think the "we are where we should be" argument sits right really in terms of the current squad. The current squad is very much Mowbrays squad, and you are considering where we are when most of our resources have been blown on 2 contributing members of the squad by that very manager, how is that logical?

We will see how many points we end up on, I suspect now that we will surpass 60 points and he will be able to suggest progression, it is just how much progression.

He is very much on the line though for me. I am worried about stagnation, but we are in a position whereby we win a game, everyones hopes get back up, then we go on a bad run, then he plucks out a win at the right time. Am I convinced we will push beyond that? Certainly not. But maybe put me in the fickle category at the moment.

The resources we have are way below the resources teams above us have. Look at WBA, Fulham, Leeds, Notts Forest, Cardiff, Swansea. They all have bigger budgets and bigger wage bills than us. I wouldn't expect us to be above them. 

Brentford are the team everyone looks at because they've built slowly, and invested and re-invested very well. 

With the resources at his disposal, to go from lge 1 fodder to a good championship team in 3 years is very good progress. However that progress has to continue next season. 

[DE.]

What? When were we ever League 1 fodder?

[rovers11]

29 minutes ago, DE. said:

What? When were we ever League 1 fodder?

The Owen Coyle team was lge 1 fodder. The team we had then was beyond useless. 

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, Gav said:

I understand the sentiment DE and you did say permanent, but Tosin is absolute quality, if he continues to improve he'll go a long way, so he can spot a player/defender when he see's one.

His buys upfront are his downfall, they've made no impact at all and the money involved clouds people views, they can't get past the money.

I'm not saying ignore £12m, of course I'm not, but if you took those buys away would his tenure be viewed in the same way on here? 

No I don't think it would be as severe but that's hypothetical. He has spent that money and even if they'd worked out so far the fact we've no decent keeper and don't own much in the way of decent defenders would still go against him somewhat.

Against the right sides on the rights days his methods do work despite how frustrating they are. By equal measure they don't as well.

That's why he's midtable Mogga.

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

The resources we have are way below the resources teams above us have. Look at WBA, Fulham, Leeds, Notts Forest, Cardiff, Swansea. They all have bigger budgets and bigger wage bills than us. I wouldn't expect us to be above them. 

Brentford are the team everyone looks at because they've built slowly, and invested and re-invested very well. 

With the resources at his disposal, to go from lge 1 fodder to a good championship team in 3 years is very good progress. However that progress has to continue next season. 

Im keen to dispel this myth that we are fighting against the odds in terms of resources available to us, or even that we have a preset place in the football hierarchy that we should be content with. Here are a few reasons:

- League 1 fodder? Dont talk daft. We spent one solitary season there after going down with I think a record high points tally even at the point when we had spent more than half of a season with Owen Coyle in charge. We were never League 1 fodder and dont need to be dismissed as this little promoted team as if we spent years down there.

- Last season we finished roughly where we were in this now lauded wage league table. This season (accounts of course not published) our wage expenditure I suspect will have gone up a few places with last summers transfer business, as will our league positions. 

- What the wage table doesnt factor in is that some of the teams above us (Stoke, Swansea etc) are still carrying unwanted and unshiftable baggage on Premier League wages. This isnt an advantage to the current managers, its covered by parachute money but is not a budget available to the manager.

- Crucially, Mowbray has been able to spend close to 20 million and has had more time available than any other manager in the division. Even his net spend will be around 15m because unlike most managers he has never been forced to sell key assets, the only asset he sold he chose to do so in Raya.

- A team that has 12m worth of awful and non contributing strikers cannot fail to bring up questions in terms of whether that club is indeed working as efficiently as it can do in terms of targets.

Lets cut out the self depreciating and David fighting against Goliaths mindset. The likelihood is that we will just beat last seasons points total and finish the season having never been in the play offs. All things considered, its progress but unremarkable progress. We are possibly on track which can be spun as either stagnation or progression and ultimately is most likely somewhere in the middle. There are things to be optimistic about and thinks to be concerned about. We will need something beyond being around expectations to go up.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Tugay-is-God said:

I'd somewhat question the fixed notion on here that somehow 12 million has definitively been wasted or "flushed away" on BB and Gallagher.

You'd only have to look back at last September/October when a lot of the same people were talking about the 14 million wasted on "three useless strikers" to see how quickly things can change and players can improve.

I don't recall many slagging off the Armstrong signing or fee. It was more a case of 14 million spent on forwards and nothing on the backline that had people's backs up.

Armstrong was a bargain and TM has done well with him. That's in his plus column.

Thing there though is he had goalscoring pedigree in lge 1 and he had pace. There were qualities there for all to see but he was still young. We also had a good look at him and signed him straight off.

[DE.]

2 minutes ago, rovers11 said:

The Owen Coyle team was lge 1 fodder. The team we had then was beyond useless. 

No chance. PPG under Mowbray was easily enough to stay up over the course of the season. We were relegated with 51 points ffs. The team was poor but it was good enough to stay up, we were just handicapped by Owen Coyle, his pathetic training methods and his useless tactics. Venky's took far too long to sack him and that's the only reason we went down that season. If Mowbray had been in place by early January I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

No chance. PPG under Mowbray was easily enough to stay up over the course of the season. We were relegated with 51 points ffs. The team was poor but it was good enough to stay up, we were just handicapped by Owen Coyle, his pathetic training methods and his useless tactics. Venky's took far too long to sack him and that's the only reason we went down that season. If Mowbray had been in place by early January I firmly believe we would have stayed up.

For sure we would have, even with that shite team.