Mowbray: Stay or Go - A Poll

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Look I think he has probably run his course now, but I can't agree on this.

I'm saying his points return of 1.47 points per game was good, especially compared to what came before him that season. You said his points return wasn't good and that is black and white.

If a new manager came in today, won 3 and drew 1 of the last 4 games, and we missed out on the play-offs by 1 point, would his points return be not very good?

Again you are comparing to a 4 game period whereby a manager would have not just a quite difficult but practically impossible task to get us into the top 6.

Mowbray had a difficult task but a doable one over 15 or 16 games. He came as close as is possible without succeeding but he was unsuccessful. A good, successful points haul was 1 more than he got.

Extrapolating results isnt accurate. He had new manager bounce over a set of players who were probably delighted to see the back of Coyle. We had games v teams with nothing to play for. There are numerous factors in why it is not an accurate measurement.

Like i said, Liverpool last season or the Arsenal invincibles, who had the better season?

And would you say that he did better in that season than last season where we picked up 1.27 points per game?

Footballs about league positions, not points per game in spells.a

[Hasta]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

would you say that he did better in that season than last season where we picked up 1.27 points per game?

If you look back, thats precisely what I did say.  That's where this debate started. To take over a team averaging less than a point a game, and to produce what would have been 67 points per season pro-rata over 15 games was a good points return.

To get a lower points per game return last season, and to say it was progressive because it was our first season back, even though most of the squad was the same squad, is a bit of a cop out. I think where he had us in that spell in 2017 under his tenure, and where we are now, is not as progressive as people are making out.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Hasta

[Tugay-is-God]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Again you are comparing to a 4 game period whereby a manager would have not just a quite difficult but practically impossible task to get us into the top 6.

Mowbray had a difficult task but a doable one over 15 or 16 games. He came as close as is possible without succeeding but he was unsuccessful. A good, successful points haul was 1 more than he got.

Extrapolating results isnt accurate. He had new manager bounce over a set of players who were probably delighted to see the back of Coyle. We had games v teams with nothing to play for. There are numerous factors in why it is not an accurate measurement.

Like i said, Liverpool last season or the Arsenal invincibles, who had the better season?

And would you say that he did better in that season than last season where we picked up 1.27 points per game?

Footballs about league positions, not points per game in spells.a

It would be a lot easier, and take a lot less words just to type: I don't like Tony Mowbray.

[roversfan99]

24 minutes ago, Tugay-is-God said:

It would be a lot easier, and take a lot less words just to type: I don't like Tony Mowbray.

Behave. My issue is not saying that Mowbray was to blame for relegation. Venkys and Coyle are the main 2 to blame. I just think its a load of bollocks to say that a task he had, a very difficult task, which he failed to do, just, should be viewed as anything other than that, a difficult job failed, rather than praising him based on flawed and irrelevant points per game extrapolations. You cannot stretch his points tally over the season, its not accurate and it never happened. The fact of the matter is that if he got one more point, he would have succeeded at a difficult task. As he didnt, he failed. That didnt mean I wanted him out at that point, I was happy that he remained, I had seen enough to suggest that he was the man to continue and he was, but he did fail that task. He then succeeded at promotion and then stability the following season.

I am not even 100% convinced that I want Mowbray to go and even if he did, I would say that hes done a good job and I would look back fondly at his time. So to suggest I dont like him is not true at all.

[Tugay-is-God]

23 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Behave. My issue is not saying that Mowbray was to blame for relegation. Venkys and Coyle are the main 2 to blame. I just think its a load of bollocks to say that a task he had, a very difficult task, which he failed to do, just, should be viewed as anything other than that, a difficult job failed, rather than praising him based on flawed and irrelevant points per game extrapolations. You cannot stretch his points tally over the season, its not accurate and it never happened. The fact of the matter is that if he got one more point, he would have succeeded at a difficult task. As he didnt, he failed. That didnt mean I wanted him out at that point, I was happy that he remained, I had seen enough to suggest that he was the man to continue and he was, but he did fail that task. He then succeeded at promotion and then stability the following season.

I am not even 100% convinced that I want Mowbray to go and even if he did, I would say that hes done a good job and I would look back fondly at his time. So to suggest I dont like him is not true at all.

Fair point, I was probably being too flippant. I guess we just have a different way of assessing success and failure.

I just get tired of seeing people blaming TM for that relegation, and at the same time saying that the subsequent promotion and mid-table were a give n and the least that could be expected (not aiming that at you btw), it's like, give the fella some credit.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Tugay-is-God

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Tugay-is-God said:

Fair point, I was probably being too flippant. I guess we just have a different way of assessing success and failure.

I just get tired of seeing people blaming TM for that relegation, and at the same time saying that the subsequent promotion and mid-table were a give n and the least that could be expected (not aiming that at you btw), it's like, give the fella some credit.

Promotion was expected, that was the target set by TM and the club. He does get credit for the promotion - think that has always been clear but lets not pretend that promotion was not the expectation. Kept all his Championship players, largest wage bill in division and was able to spend at least 3x more than anyone else in the division on recruitment. 

I don't blame TM for the relegation, that mainly falls into the lap of Coyle. That said, TM was brought in with the remit of keeping us up - which he ultimately failed to do.

Edited July 11, 2020 by JacknOry

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, Tugay-is-God said:

Fair point, I was probably being too flippant. I guess we just have a different way of assessing success and failure.

I just get tired of seeing people blaming TM for that relegation, and at the same time saying that the subsequent promotion and mid-table were a give n and the least that could be expected (not aiming that at you btw), it's like, give the fella some credit.

I certainly dont blame Mowbray for the relegation. He didnt save us from it and thus failed his difficult task but hes at the back of the queue in terms of blame overall.

I also think promotion and stability were the expectations in the next 2 seasons. Achieved by Mowbray both times and meeting but not particularly exceeding expectations is not a negative at all. Many managers have lost jobs for not doing so. The fact that he met those expectations means I am very fond of him and hold a positive opinion of his time in charge.

[K-Hod]

Mowbray set us a target of 70 points this season. After tonight, the maximum we can reach is 66. 
I’m sure that won’t be his fault though.

[booth]

For spending all that cash on two failures and not strengthening in other areas he should already have gone.

His continual team selection and substitution errors add insult to injury.

[Exiled_Rover]

8 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Mowbray set us a target of 70 points this season. After tonight, the maximum we can reach is 66. 
I’m sure that won’t be his fault though.

Oh but he lost Ronal.....sorry, Dack halfway through the season.

He's done a grand job soldiering on to midtable obscurity under those trying circumstances. 

4 more years I say.

[tomphil]

28 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Mowbray set us a target of 70 points this season. After tonight, the maximum we can reach is 66. 
I’m sure that won’t be his fault though.

Dack is the go to on that one.

Just having him around stops Walton having the shakes and the defense takes on Allardyce style resilience.  At least that's what they'll think on facebook.

Edited July 14, 2020 by tomphil

[LeftWinger]

I personally think it's time to roll the dice and change manager - we're going to stagnate in the middle of the Championship and continuing to lose money under Tony.

However, a lot of people blame him for the signings of Brereton and Gallagher. Did he actually choose these players and negotiate the fee? I certainly don't think he will have negotiated the fee and I even question whether he selected the players. I know for a fact that Waggot was bemused as to why the signing of Gallagher didn't shift season tickets (this has come from within the club), as an expensive striker returning to the club. Maybe he was more involved in selecting transfer targets, I don't know.

My biggest problem with Tony is his overly cautious approach. When we go for it and select a more bold team, we seem to get better results. He also has his favourites like Bennett and is quite happy to pick on the younger players (see Raya/Nyambe, even Brereton recently).

Plus his liking for a striker on the wing is mystifying. 

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

I personally think it's time to roll the dice and change manager - we're going to stagnate in the middle of the Championship and continuing to lose money under Tony.

However, a lot of people blame him for the signings of Brereton and Gallagher. Did he actually choose these players and negotiate the fee? I certainly don't think he will have negotiated the fee and I even question whether he selected the players. I know for a fact that Waggot was bemused as to why the signing of Gallagher didn't shift season tickets (this has come from within the club), as an expensive striker returning to the club. Maybe he was more involved in selecting transfer targets, I don't know.

My biggest problem with Tony is his overly cautious approach. When we go for it and select a more bold team, we seem to get better results. He also has his favourites like Bennett and is quite happy to pick on the younger players (see Raya/Nyambe, even Brereton recently).

Plus his liking for a striker on the wing is mystifying. 

 

 

That tells me all I need to know about what Waggot knows about football.

[Paul Mellelieu]

He deserves another season after the work he's done to take the club forward from the absolute mess he inherited.  A little loyalty goes a long way.

[tomphil]

Over loyalty is part of the problem here certainly in squad terms and that looks set to continue.  It's a pointless phrase in football anyway, how loyal would he have been if Boro came calling again or another interesting job ?

His main loyalty will be to the 500k - 1 million he earns every year.

[Mattyblue]

Football at this level cannot be about ‘loyalty’. Can’t afford it.

There’s an understanding in football. The players and manager will be off like a shot with a better offer, and by the same premise we expect our players and managers to be replaced by better operatives as they come available/are affordable.

The only ‘loyalty’ is to the well-being of the club itself, the powers that be ensuring the best possible side on the pitch.

That model has gone awry this past decade, with obvious results.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Not sure about that Phil.

[47er]

2 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

He deserves another season after the work he's done to take the club forward from the absolute mess he inherited.  A little loyalty goes a long way.

How long is he going to live off promotion from Div 1? Loyalty is apparently available to everyone at Rovers but the fans.

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by 47er

[Paul Mellelieu]

7 minutes ago, 47er said:

How long is he going to live off promotion from Div 1? Loyalty is apparently available to everyone at Rovers but the fans.

 

And then made us into a team close to challenging for a play-off place.  

[Mattyblue]

‘Close to challenging for a play off place’. 

Great turn of phrase for mid table 
 

 

[Scotland1]

18 minutes ago, 47er said:

How long is he going to live off promotion from Div 1? Loyalty is apparently available to everyone at Rovers but the fans.

 

Not long he’s the one who put us there

[RoversClitheroe]

How the poll doesn't say 100% is beyond me.

[Beanie01289]

I've said stay but we have to move forward next season. My only reason for sticking really is the fear of who we would appoint the track record of managers has been abysmal. Of you could show me we had someone capable to step in I'd probably change.

 

 

[47er]

38 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

And then made us into a team close to challenging for a play-off place.  

Three quarters of the league are challenging for a top 6 place at some point during the season. He not only didn't make us serious candidates, we have only made 6th once in 2 years, when we had an early KO  and that only lasted a couple of hours!

If he stays we will have another season like this one---at best. That's assuming he does well in the transfer market because we are in dire need of half a side, thanks to successive cock-ups from him.

[Mercer]

41 minutes ago, Scotland1 said:

Not long he’s the one who put us there

This is a great point.

Mowbray himself said at Blues Bar in Feb. last year that he was brought to the club to keep us up that season.

He failed.

Safety was within our grasp (relegated on goal difference) but, IMO, too many tactical blunders and game management decisions cost us badly.