Mowbray: Stay or Go - A Poll

[JHRover]

I wish I shared Rich Sharpe's confidence that our league position WILL improve on last year and a top half finish is 'almost guaranteed'.

We are currently 3 points above Wigan in the bottom half. They are in good form and will probably overtake us. We will get away with that because of their imminent points deduction but that is nothing to boast about.

4 points above Reading and Sheffield Wednesday, who occupy the 15th position we ended last season in. A couple of wins for the Owls or a defeat to Reading on Saturday and both could overtake us.

I don't think it is much to boast about considering the problems those clubs have had. Wednesday are often quoted as one of the clubs we are avoiding getting like due to their FFP 'issues' and Reading have also had problems fighting relegation all season. 

I'm very unimpressed that Wigan could overtake us especially given where we were after the Bristol City win.

[Dreams of 1995]

Tony Mowbray didn't get us relegated. Owen Coyle did. People that go around throwing their toys out of their pram blaming Mowbray because he's upset them are doing themselves no favours - all they are doing is taking the blame away from chimp features.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

He deserves another season after the work he's done to take the club forward from the absolute mess he inherited.  A little loyalty goes a long way.

A " little loyalty " to Keano saw us lose our Premiership place and it's been downhill ever since. My loyalty is always to Blackburn Rovers - players and managers come and go as they please.

[Amo]

Loyalty?

We kept faith with Mowbray after he took us down. 

He was also rewarded with significantly more to spend on players than recent managers (which he splurged on garbage).

Don't give me loyalty.

[Mercer]

7 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Tony Mowbray didn't get us relegated. Owen Coyle did. People that go around throwing their toys out of their pram blaming Mowbray because he's upset them are doing themselves no favours - all they are doing is taking the blame away from chimp features.

If you accept a job to keep the club up and you don't then you have failed - FULL STOP.

Of course Tony Mowbray is, IMO, responsible for our relegation.

Warnock was employed by Middlesbrough to keep them up with 8 games to go when for all the world they looked like a basket case.  Barring freak results in the last two games of the season, he has almost certainly succeeded. JOB FECKIN WELL DONE despite the mess Woodgate left behind! 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mercer

[K-Hod]

1 hour ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

And then made us into a team close to challenging for a play-off place.  

We were loyal to him in the transfer market and he’s let us down badly....

[Dreams of 1995]

12 minutes ago, Mercer said:

If you accept a job to keep the club up and you don't then you have failed - full stop.

Of course Tony Mowbray is, IMO, responsible for our relegation.

Warnock was employed by Middlesbrough to keep them up with 8 games to go when for all the world they looked like a basket case.  Barring freak results in the last two games of the season, he has almost certainly succeeded. JOB FECKIN WELL DONE despite what the mess Woodgate left behind! 

Bullshit. You would say that because you've had a beef with Mowbray for over 12 months. The argument you've put forward is lacking in context, probably deliberately so "IMO".

When Neil Warnock took over Boro (22nd June 2020) Boro had 41 points, level on goal difference - or better - than those around them. Boro were within 3 points from Wigan in 17th place.

When Tony Mowbray took over Rovers (Feb 2017) we were second bottom, 3pts away from Bristol City and a huge 6pts away from next best placed Wolves, Blues, Forest and QPR even more out of reach. The team we had was awful compared to the Boro team, and to top it off our goal difference was worse than every club around us except Burton's who were level with us.

The two situations are incomparable. Mowbray came in with the likes of Greer, Brown and Lowe; Warnock has Dael Fry, Fletcher, Patrick Roberts (!), Howson, George Friend. These are players that have played in Europe / Premier League in the not so distant past.

Again, it wasn't Mowbray who relegated us, it was Coyle, and quite why you'd want to absolve him of that blame is beyond me

Should also note that of the teams around us when Mowbray took over Forest are now play offs, Wolves are in Europe, Villa Premier League. Warnock has Luton, Barnsley and Hull to contend with - different league altogether. 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Dreams of 1995

[Mattyblue]

The Rao family were responsible for relegation.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

The Rao family were responsible for relegation.

That's a compromise I'd be willing to make.

The Rao family in conjunction with Coyle.......

[Scotland1]

38 minutes ago, Mercer said:

This is a great point.

Mowbray himself said at Blues Bar in Feb. last year that he was brought to the club to keep us up that season.

He failed.

Safety was within our grasp (relegated on goal difference) but, IMO, too many tactical blunders and game management decisions cost us badly.

Correct and agreed. Nigel Cloughs rag tag burton side managed more points. I swear we had a game in hand and played them midweek for Tony’s first game too which we drew.

Too many Tony romanticists on here.

[Paul Mellelieu]

44 minutes ago, Amo said:

Loyalty?

We kept faith with Mowbray after he took us down. 

He was also rewarded with significantly more to spend on players than recent managers (which he splurged on garbage).

Don't give me loyalty.

Neither of those two things are IMHO true.  Thought you'd grown out of the girly photos by now.

[Paul Mellelieu]

46 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

We were loyal to him in the transfer market and he’s let us down badly....

Mixed record actually, but don't let the facts get in the way.

[Amo]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Neither of those two things are IMHO true.  Thought you'd grown out of the girly photos by now.

They're factually true. Do you care to prove otherwise or are you just shitposting? 

[Mattyblue]

A net spend isn’t a matter of opinion.

Which of our other recent managers have spent more?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, Amo said:

They're factually true. Do you care to prove otherwise or are you just shitposting? 

He didn't take us down and he has a mixed recruitment record.  Funny how disagreeing the majority is shitposting.  

[47er]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Mixed record actually, but don't let the facts get in the way.

Since football returned we've taken 7 points from six games. That's borderline relegation form, ludicrous to think we will make the play-offs with Mowbray in charge.

He's never been a good manager, that's the thing. Left Coventry in a mess from which they have never recovered but most telling of all, made a pigs ear of the Celtic job.

How is that possible?!!

I didn't cheer when he came to us, better than Coyle is all you can say about him.

 

[Mattyblue]

To be fair Mark Robins has resurrected them, two promotions (without a ground).

Now that’s management.

[Amo]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

He didn't take us down and he has a mixed recruitment record.  Funny how disagreeing the majority is shitposting.  

Well, seeing as we were 3pts from safety with 15 games to go... I'd say yeah, he pretty much did.

You'll have to remind me, did Bowyer have over £12m to spend on players?

[Miller11]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

To be fair Mark Robins has resurrected them, two promotions (without a ground).

Now that’s management.

Mark Robins has the same agent as Mowbray (and Lambert, Coyle and Bowyer)... he’d be my choice from the HSH list

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, 47er said:

Since football returned we've taken 7 points from six games. That's borderline relegation form, ludicrous to think we will make the play-offs with Mowbray in charge.

He's never been a good manager, that's the thing. Left Coventry in a mess from which they have never recovered but most telling of all, made a pigs ear of the Celtic job.

How is that possible?!!

I didn't cheer when he came to us, better than Coyle is all you can say about him.

 

Whaaaat? Is Mowbray getting the blame for Coventry City now? I think the blame for that lies at Sisu's door, not at the managers.

[JHRover]

If Mowbray wasn't responsible for relegation in 2017 thats fine. Just like Lambert wasn't responsible for Stoke or Ipswich going down yet those are often chalked up against him by some to evidence his managerial flaws.

Can't have it both ways.

Suffice to say that Warnock's turnaround at Rotherham a few years ago has to be the most impressive survival act that I can recall and that showed keeping us up whilst difficult was not mission impossible. 

Ever since his WBA days I've seen Mowbray as an enigma of a manager. He clearly has something about him. Not many sustain 15 year+ careers these days and his win percentage even just in England is impressive at over 40% over nearly 700 career games. Not bad at all.

He's clearly a well liked man. A good family bloke who loves his job and football. I've never seen anything from anyone at his previous clubs that criticises the man Mowbray and on the contrary he was well liked at WBA despite relegation and loved at Boro.

But there's always been a mark against his name for me. As a manager he has always been very idealistic and romantic rather than realistic and pragmatic. There's always some grand dream or scheme going on.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

A fresh start would be good. I would get McCarthy in, about 10 years later than we should have. Someone else will go for him otherwise and he will more than likely do what he does and exceed expectations at this level. 

Mowbray had everything set up for him this season to do well and again we capitulated. Dacks injury was a blow, but the way the games fell for us, particularly since returning, I can't help but feel we missed a great opportunity. Especially after beating Bristol city firs game back. Mowbray has said that he thinks the players got carried away with talk about the play-offs after that, didn't he say the EXACT same thing last February after our atrocious run? The man doesn't seem willing or able to learn. Stubborn stuck in his ways and over complicates things needlessly. He starts players when he shouldn't and leaves them out when he should, far too much for my liking. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Mattyblue]

My feelings JH. 

The ‘project’, ‘slow build’ unfortunately goes nowhere in a league as relentless and competitive as the Championship with the added pressure of the FFP sword of damocles over your head. Pragmatists win the day, unless your ‘project’ is a total root and branch ground-breaking one as Brentford’s.
 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Bigdoggsteel]

Duff made some comments in that podcast I put up yesterday about Ranieri talking about "building and solid foundations"when he arrived at Chelsea. Duff said something along the lines of "well you better win something too, because you won't get the time". The next season he was sacked and Mourinho brought in. 

What are our targets here? Is there any risk of repercussions if they aren't met? Doesn't seem to be the case. 

[Mercer]

42 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Bullshit. You would say that because you've had a beef with Mowbray for over 12 months. The argument you've put forward is lacking in context, probably deliberately so "IMO".  I have had my doubts since Mowbray was first appointed, never mind the last 12 months - he would not have been my choice as his track record, IMO, did not justify his appointment.

When Neil Warnock took over Boro (22nd June 2020) Boro had 41 points, level on goal difference - or better - than those around them. Boro were within 3 points from Wigan in 17th place.  M'boro were in freefall.  They'd taken just 5 points from their previous 8 games including losses to Barnsley and Luton.  Gibson knew they were in desperate trouble and hired a man with a proven track record of turning things around.  Warnock's 9 points from 6 games is quite remarkable in the circumstances.

When Tony Mowbray took over Rovers (Feb 2017) we were second bottom, 3pts away from Bristol City and a huge 6pts away from next best placed Wolves, Blues, Forest and QPR even more out of reach. The team we had was awful compared to the Boro team, and to top it off our goal difference was worse than every club around us except Burton's who were level with us.  Mowbray accepted the job with the objective of keeping us up irrespective of what he was inheriting.  He inherited a difficult situation from Coyle, however, IMO, his tactics and game management in a number of games where we were either winning or drawing and went on to either draw or lose cost us our place in the Championship by just 1 point.  Mowbray failed in his objective.

The two situations are incomparable. Mowbray came in with the likes of Greer, Brown and Lowe; Warnock has Dael Fry, Fletcher, Patrick Roberts (!), Howson, George Friend. These are players that have played in Europe / Premier League in the not so distant past.  So what - as Souey used to say 'you wee with the willy you have'.  Mowbray knew what he was inheriting and presumably said 'yes, I can keep us up' if the objective, as the man himself said, was to keep us up.

Again, it wasn't Mowbray who relegated us, it was Coyle, and quite why you'd want to absolve him of that blame is beyond me  - Coyle left us in a mess.  Mowbray's objective was to keep us up - that's why he was appointed.  He failed and therefore we were relegated.  The buck stops at the manager's door.  

Should also note that of the teams around us when Mowbray took over Forest are now play offs, Wolves are in Europe, Villa Premier League. Warnock has Luton, Barnsley and Hull to contend with - different league altogether.  Bullsh1t! - and Mowbray had the likes of Rotherham, Wigan, Burton, Barnsley, Brum, QPR, Ipswich etc