Cardiff away

[den]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Who's going to take them on current form ? They'll both be on a decent wedge. I think we're stuck with them unless something changes.

ASAP Tyrone, but it should be clear to everyone that these two haven’t worked out and they won’t work out here.

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, joey_big_nose said:

I'd keep him over Gallagher or Brereton.

 

1 hour ago, Amo said:

Damning with faint praise.

Bin the lot of 'em.

Whilst it is faint praise it also appears a fact that he is better than both of them. 

There's no way we can get 3 new strikers in, so someone has to stay as a squad player and i would rather it be Samuel then either of the other two. Given we need practically a whole new defence a 3rd or 4th choice striker realistically won't get any attention or cash so we should focus our energy and resources on more pressing matters.  

[Mattyblue]

And that’s fine blue blood (and Sparks) But where the other two going? We are stuck with them on lengthy and lucrative contracts, so Samuel will be the one going, you’d imagine, along with DG, unfortunately in Graham’s case.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Sparks Rover]

I'm in the Samuel camp. We should keep him ahead of Gallagher and Brereton.   Much quicker and can finish.  Tony likes a forward that can play right.....

[rigger]

I will be very surprised if Gally, Brero, or Samuel leave. So we will have to make do with what we have got and hope they come good. Meanwhile lets get a defence playing well from somewhere. Again it might have to be from what we have already got, but just played in the correct positions. I think our mid-field will look after itself. That leaves the manager, well ?????? 

[tomphil]

33 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

True.

6 years since we did it at this level.

Again some of it just has to be the failure of successive Venky managers to build a decent defence and install a proper keeper. That has proved extremely costly points and position wise.

Chuck in the constant 'nice lads only' remit and it really is no wonder. 

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I'm in the Samuel camp. We should keep him ahead of Gallagher and Brereton.   Much quicker and can finish.  Tony likes a forward that can play right.....

Poor finisher.

His approach play and all round ability is no worse than the other 2 though and being fair for a few hundred grand it's about what you'd expect.

Gallagher has the tools to be an athletic grafting battering ran Allardyce or Hughes would make him or break him.  This fella has so far made him worse and doesn't have a scooby what to do with him.  Out of the 3 he could be turned into something effective but probably won't be.

[47er]

45 minutes ago, den said:

ASAP Tyrone, but it should be clear to everyone that these two haven’t worked out and they won’t work out here.

No chance at all with this manager. Probably not with another.

[Sparks Rover]

18 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Poor finisher.

His approach play and all round ability is no worse than the other 2 though and being fair for a few hundred grand it's about what you'd expect.

Gallagher has the tools to be an athletic grafting battering ran Allardyce or Hughes would make him or break him.  This fella has so far made him worse and doesn't have a scooby what to do with him.  Out of the 3 he could be turned into something effective but probably won't be.

He's scored 2 since we've been back, should have had 4.  None for gally or Brereton and don't even look like scoring, so I'll stick with Dom.  On a different planet to both of them(neither should even be called pro footballers)  if he's given a run and faith is put in him.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Blue blood]

38 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

And that’s fine blue blood (and Sparks) But where the other two going? We are stuck with them on lengthy and lucrative contracts, so Samuel will be the one going, you’d imagine, along with DG, unfortunately in Graham’s case.

Yep I appreciate that offloading those two will be hard. I said that's what I would do and it's the best of a bad situation - appreciate there may be difficulties in this. In fact I suspect what you say will happen, but that is far from the best solution. 

I don't know how big the contracts are on the other two, although I have heard Gally's is quite high so getting rid is a problem. Perhaps if we offered them on frees or loans out that would recoup some of the wages if nothing else?Going on frees I expect is unlikely to happen as it makes TM look more of a clown but loans out are certainly a possibility. Think a number of clubs would perhaps gamble with them on loans.

At the moment they are complete deadwood, in wages and ability. Getting them off the books somewhat, even if partial wages, would be more of a contribution from them than anything they have done this season. Also it's a fresh start and for Ben regular games can only help him. It may, if it goes well, put them in the shop window and make them vaguely attractive. 

My point is they are doing nothing for us now and we need getting shut of them. Yes it will be hard and, yes it will be at a loss but something is better than nothing. And nothing is what we are getting from them at present. 

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Interesting. Wasn't my point. I'm glad I was proved correct  

You was in terms of that Graham should play, but nothing to do with any relationship he has with the fans because no one was there! He scored and played well not because he was desperate to impress back in Wales, to aggravate the Cardiff fans or anything like that, he did because he is a clever player and a good striker.

5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Dan Pike, Luke Brennan, Zak Gilsenan and D'Margio Wright-Phillips in the Under 18's all look very promising indeed. Could become very big players in the future.

Joe Rankin-Costello proved yet again last night that he will be a very big player for us. John Buckley, Joe Rankin-Costello, Ryan Nyambe, Lewis Travis, Darragh Lenihan are all players who have played in our youth teams and are now in the first team.

If you do truly go and watch the 23's you'll see we have a pretty decent side, competing against some of the best in the country. Jack Vale is breaking through, Dan Butterworth is a baller and if he recovers from his injury will get first team game time soon, Joe Grayson can pass a ball really nicely and shows promise. I find it a very dower overview to say our academy is overrated.

Whilst it is admirable that you go to watch the under 23s, you should never lose sight of the fact that it is a reserve/kids league and not representative of senior football. The acid test is in the first team.

You say that "Rankin-Costello proved yet again last night that he will be a very big player for us" and I think that is very much hyperbole at this point. Definitely his best and most impressive performance, showed a couple of good flashes coming forward in the first half and untested defensively. His first 2 starts in attacking positions were ineffective, and he was shaky v Bristol City too. Last night was a positive step and lets hope he gets a chance in a more natural position between now and the end of the season, but proved that he will be a very big player? Lets not go overboard.

Grayson in his only senior appearance really struggled against Oldham. Suppose playing v young kids its much easier to hold your own physically. Magloire had the same issue when he broke through. Out of the 3, Wharton having played 80+ senior League games you would think is in by far the best position of the 3 if any is to become a member of the squad.

That being said, our academy is fruitful when you consider that 3 of our best players are academy graduates, and a fourth was sold perhaps wrongly but for a few million last summer. None of this current crop have established themselves really but hopefully that will come. Mercer is expecting 20 million players and England players and wants the whole system ripped up if we cant do that whereas a successful academy at this level would be one that gives a team a few key players and a few more within the squad for sure.

4 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

I genuinely think Nyambe has a good delivery, just isn't allowed to get into the positions as Mowbray holds him back.

As much as I have been critical of Mowbray lately, implying that he is "holding back" Nyambe from showcasing his good delivery seems nonsensical to me. People say the same about Travis who for me if anything has broken further forward more often this season and has even got a couple of goals.

Our full backs are often quite advanced so he has plenty of opportunity within Mowbrays tactics. Nyambe has always had a habit, probably a mix of confidence and technical issues whereby he gets so far and his instinct tells him to stop. The only cross I can remember him putting in was the one for Gallagher v Swansea just before lockdown. Its the area of his game that requires most improvement.

[Bigdoggsteel]

If Gallagher stays he needs to be put on a serious muscle building program and get used as a battering ram through the middle. He's never gonna be a winger and with his frame he could be a handful of he learned a thing or two from Graham about hold up play. He hasn't learnt much so far though. 

[bluebruce]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's inevitable we are going to get bids for Armstrong now and I wouldn't be surprised to see one near £7 million. So next season could be very worrying on the goals front. 

Can you imagine selling our best player for the same as we paid for Brereton? The profit on him being even less than that fee? And then giving a chunk of it to Newcastle as I'm sure they have a sell on? No fucking thanks. Would be spitting feathers.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, bluebruce said:

Can you imagine selling our best player for the same as we paid for Brereton? The profit on him being even less than that fee? And then giving a chunk of it to Newcastle as I'm sure they have a sell on? No fucking thanks. Would be spitting feathers.

Ya ,indeed. So hopefully doesn't happen 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Worth noting last night how good Johnson, Graham and Downing were. They really showed their experience. Can only make me think they should have started more with your Travis, JRC and Armstrong's offering the youthful running. 

[roversfan99]

I always found the notion of Gallagher coming in and phasing Graham out an idealistic and flawed one. They dont share the same attributes at all, and much of Grahams game will be natural, the way he tends to be able to anticipate where chances will fall, the little sly (sometimes) nudges etc that you might not always notice on TV. His main attribute has always been his brain and how street smart he is.

Gallagher on the other hand doesnt have that skillset. He is faster and more powerful than Graham without being rapid. I would say he has a higher jump on him too but Graham knows how to nod the ball perfectly into onrushing team mates.

He lacks Graham's natural anticipation, his finishing ability and also his intelligence in terms of being a focal point. His best spell was at a time when Coyle used to play 2 out and out wingers and 2 up front and Gallagher scored a few headers. Our squad now couldnt be any less suitable for him.

Its a real problem because hes a massive liability on a long term contract as a high earner so we are stuck with him.

[mhead]

5 hours ago, arbitro said:

No false nine, no wide strikers, no square pegs in round holes and no baffling tactics. The players seemed to know their roles and positions. The result is a solid performance and win.

Hopefully Mowbray will at last realise that football really is a simple game.

But I sincerely doubt it.

And no Joe Rothwell, plus with Holtby away from home we are just not competitive.

Agree with Joe H. that it was the 5 home grown players plus Armstrong that provided the dynamism.

The Youth Team are so good that they need to be accelerated. If they are still in training I would be blooding some of them before the end of the Season.

[chaddyrovers]

14 hours ago, bluebruce said:

Well no, I offer him a new contract obviously. Partly with money I didn't spunk on giving pointless extensions to players who never feature, and the pointless signings of Gallagher and Brereton. In fact I'd have had him on the 4-year contract (3 years, extra year in our favour) I'd have signed him on last season so that no wage bump was needed now. But in absence of all this, yes I'd try to get his contract extended first and take it from there if we couldn't. Tbh the club are big on 'and another year in the club's favour' so I won't be surprised if we have that clause in Nyambe's contract already. Nobody knew Bell had one until well after it was activated.

What sort of club do you think is paying 5 million for him in this climate, in this league? He's a full-back who doesn't score and doesn't consistently assist, and everybody is feeling the covid pinch. Elliott Bennett has sat in front of him for stretches of the last two seasons. We got 3 million for our talented keeper who played every game for 2 seasons. So again, who in the Championship is going to want to pay 5 million for him right now, even though I personally think he'll go on to be worth a lot more? If you can name me a club with the money, the need at RB, and who would consider him the right option for them, I'll be surprised. Prem teams being relegated will likely be happy with what they've got there, or just go and buy the 3 top-rated RBs in the league.

Yeh I hope we get a King windfall, that would be a big help right now.

So what happens if Nyambe refuse to sign a contract extension? sell or keep and risk a fee being decide by a tribunal?

We know about the club option in Bell contracts weeks before it happened. We knew about the club option back in February when the Lancashire Telegraph did an article on it. 

Who knows what club will pay and the players they want before the transfer window. Did you expect Brighton to Adam Webster for 20 million before last summer window for example?

You mention Prem Teams coming down will likely be happy with what they've get there. Well lets a look at it.

Norwich right back Max Aarons has been linked with a move to Spurs in the past. But what is Norwich financial situation currently and I think they will sell their 2 full backs Aarons and Lewis in the summer. So we see what they will do. 

Bournemouth have Jack Stacey and Adam Smith at right back.But I read an article online on Sunday or Monday night saying their owner will make massive cutbacks there going forward so hopefully we get that King Windfall and that's will help the club. 

Aston Villa have 2 right backs but I would so no better than Nyambe and it is possible of squad overhaul with reports in media that their sporting Director is facing the sack over a number of poor signings. Dean Smith job as head coach there could come under threat. So it is a possible

I have mention that Palace could be possible club for Nyambe in the past week. 

 

13 hours ago, JHRover said:

I'd prioritise getting promoted and ensuring we have a squad capable of doing so e.g. keeping our best players and adding to them  rather than worrying about what we might or might not be able to fetch for our best players. 

 

so you take a risk of losing a player for small fee instead of the fee we should get like we did with Josh King

6 hours ago, arbitro said:

No false nine, no wide strikers, no square pegs in round holes and no baffling tactics. The players seemed to know their roles and positions. The result is a solid performance and win.

Hopefully Mowbray will at last realise that football really is a simple game.

But I sincerely doubt it.

Graham played as false nine role has he was much deeper than I seen him before, with Samuel and Armstrong as wide strikers. The 4-3-3 system worked last night. 

[chaddyrovers]

6 hours ago, JoeH said:

Dan Pike, Luke Brennan, Zak Gilsenan and D'Margio Wright-Phillips in the Under 18's all look very promising indeed. Could become very big players in the future.

Joe Rankin-Costello proved yet again last night that he will be a very big player for us. John Buckley, Joe Rankin-Costello, Ryan Nyambe, Lewis Travis, Darragh Lenihan are all players who have played in our youth teams and are now in the first team.

If you do truly go and watch the 23's you'll see we have a pretty decent side, competing against some of the best in the country. Jack Vale is breaking through, Dan Butterworth is a baller and if he recovers from his injury will get first team game time soon, Joe Grayson can pass a ball really nicely and shows promise. I find it a very dower overview to say our academy is overrated.

I agree with your point that Rankin Costello will be a big player for us. 

I am very surprise you haven't mention that Sam Burns in your under 18's list. We haven't sign Wright-Philips yet from Man City but Rich Sharpe did say Rovers are looking to sign him if we can. 

I thoroughly enjoyed watching the under 23's and seeing potential players coming through. Vale will be good player for us if his development continues 

 

5 hours ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

JRC looks a good player but he isnt a left back. Where do people think he will end up?

 

I think he would be good winger for us but I wouldn't be surprise if he ended up at right back if Nyambe does go. He has played the right wing back for under 23's in a number of games I watched when Damien Johnson was the under 23's team manager. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

 

Whilst it is admirable that you go to watch the under 23s, you should never lose sight of the fact that it is a reserve/kids league and not representative of senior football. The acid test is in the first team.

You say that "Rankin-Costello proved yet again last night that he will be a very big player for us" and I think that is very much hyperbole at this point. Definitely his best and most impressive performance, showed a couple of good flashes coming forward in the first half and untested defensively. His first 2 starts in attacking positions were ineffective, and he was shaky v Bristol City too. Last night was a positive step and lets hope he gets a chance in a more natural position between now and the end of the season, but proved that he will be a very big player? Lets not go overboard.

Grayson in his only senior appearance really struggled against Oldham. Suppose playing v young kids its much easier to hold your own physically. Magloire had the same issue when he broke through. Out of the 3, Wharton having played 80+ senior League games you would think is in by far the best position of the 3 if any is to become a member of the squad.

That being said, our academy is fruitful when you consider that 3 of our best players are academy graduates, and a fourth was sold perhaps wrongly but for a few million last summer. None of this current crop have established themselves really but hopefully that will come. Mercer is expecting 20 million players and England players and wants the whole system ripped up if we cant do that whereas a successful academy at this level would be one that gives a team a few key players and a few more within the squad for sure.

Our full backs are often quite advanced so he has plenty of opportunity within Mowbrays tactics. Nyambe has always had a habit, probably a mix of confidence and technical issues whereby he gets so far and his instinct tells him to stop. The only cross I can remember him putting in was the one for Gallagher v Swansea just before lockdown. Its the area of his game that requires most improvement.

If you had watch Rankin Costello from his time in our academy/under 23's to now, you would have seen why me and Joe think Rankin Costello will be a big player just I was a big fan of Travis 3 years ago. Last night was his best performance for us but to be say he was shaky against Bristol City is such what abit over the top. 

have you seen Wharton play in their 3 playoffs he played in? if so do you think he is ready to play a part in first team squad going forward?

[rigger]

I don't get the debate if Nyambe is a good or bad crosser of the ball. No one knows because he doesn't attempt to put in crosses. 

[WacoRover]

Youth are characterized by extremes, both good & bad. I take Rankin-Costello, I think he will be a solid player for us.

 I asked the same thing about Wharton, he’s helped 3 teams to promotion. Hard worker, & surely, a winning attitude. 

[Miller11]

1 minute ago, rigger said:

I don't get the debate if Nyambe is a good or bad crosser of the ball. No one knows because he doesn't attempt to put in crosses. 

Last night was an exception, but there is rarely a target in the box for a cross. When Gallagher plays he is stood out wide with Nyambe looking for a short pass, a false 9 would be lurking around the edge of the box. Maybe Armstrong might be coming in at the back post, but if it was Brereton he’d likely be falling over on the halfway line or contemplating his next haircut.

I really do wish we would put more crosses in. If Graham plays, and to a lesser degree Samuel, we have decent targets in there.

[rigger]

Just now, Miller11 said:

Last night was an exception, but there is rarely a target in the box for a cross. When Gallagher plays he is stood out wide with Nyambe looking for a short pass, a false 9 would be lurking around the edge of the box. Maybe Armstrong might be coming in at the back post, but if it was Brereton he’d likely be falling over on the halfway line or contemplating his next haircut.

I really do wish we would put more crosses in. If Graham plays, and to a lesser degree Samuel, we have decent targets in there.

Conversely perhaps no-one gets into the box, because they know the ball will not be crossed early 

[Miller11]

Just now, rigger said:

Conversely perhaps no-one gets into the box, because they know the ball will not be crossed early 

Yeah, very possible. I doubt it’s something we work on in training either way, considering how rarely we see an early cross. 

[4000Holes]

At risk of getting pilloried and having to take a significant Amount of flak, I think that there is a footballer in Brereton.  Sure he has been disappointing in his earlier games, but he was being played out of position and in the main in very short cameos.  Not a situation a young lad trying to justify a hefty price tag (nothing to do with him) should have been put in that position.  He was badly managed.  Since the lockdown, I think he has played much better but in a better position, his petulance withstanding, but I think that was his age and frustration took hold. 
Samuel played well last evening and a quick look at Cardiff comments confirms that but that may have been down to Grahams influence therefore the jury is still out.  I thought Graham’s positioning and anticipation was superb but considering Samuel is coming back from a recent bad injury, there is hope.

Never understood why we re-signed Gallagher as he just doesn’t fit.  With a couple of wingers giving him reasonable service then maybe but we/Mowbray just don’t play that way.