Cardiff away

[Guest]

Just now, rigger said:

That is where a manager comes in. He sees both players in training every day. He then makes the decision who he wants to play and who is the backup.

No but your personal opinion, not TM, you're genuinely suggesting that we play Wharton over Williams? Despite the clear evidence that one has shown to be much superior to the other over his career? I'm baffled. I feel as though its purely because he's come from our academy, which is very sentimental and not very practical.

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, JoeH said:

He debuted in 2016, the fact he's only made two appearances in a Rovers shirt, under multiple coaching set ups, isn't a positive for him - it sheds a negative light.

John Buckley, 19, thrown straight in
Lewis Travis at 19, thrown straight in
Ryan Nyambe at 19, thrown straight in

These are the players who succeed, not a 23-year old who's spent the last four years out on loan, mostly in League Two.

I can't say one way or the other if he'll be at the right level, but it's different for central defenders. There's no luxury to introduce them gradually and allow them to learn on the job in the same way that you can for other outfield positions.

I would've thought his lack of appearances for the Rovers 1st team reflects both his position & that the management think he's going to develop more playing mens football rather than them thinking that he's never going to make it. 

[Guest]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

I would've thought his lack of appearances for the Rovers 1st team reflects both his position & that the management think he's going to develop more playing mens football rather than them thinking that he's never going to make it. 

Maybe, I think his consistent loans to decent League Two sides is so he can be shifted for £250,000 to a League One team when the time comes and we can make some money on him. If he was ready to play for us he would have done by now. He will go the way of Willem Tomlinson, not the way of Lewis Travis.

Edited July 10, 2020 by JoeH

[rigger]

Just now, JoeH said:

No but your personal opinion, not TM, you're genuinely suggesting that we play Wharton over Williams? Despite the clear evidence that one has shown to be much superior to the other over his career? I'm baffled. I feel as though its purely because he's come from our academy, which is very sentimental and not very practical.

Without the ability to judge like for like, I would prefer a player with a future, rather than a past 

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, JoeH said:

Maybe, I think his consistent loans to decent League Two sides is so he can be shifted for £250,000 to a League One team when the time comes and we can make some money on him. If he was ready to play for us he would have done by now. He will go the way of Willem Tomlinson, not the way of Lewis Travis.

Time will tell, I haven't followed him other than knowing his promotions so I can't call it either way.

Having said that, seems to me as though there's a pretty big middle ground between Travis is & where Tomlinson seems to be - there's room for Scotty to be a relative success if he finds himself in that middle ground.

[Guest]

Just now, rigger said:

Without the ability to judge like for like, I would prefer a player with a future, rather than a past 

Fair enough if that's the way you see it. I can't comprehend it though personally.

[Guest]

Just now, Admiral Nelsen said:

Having said that, seems to me as though there's a pretty big middle ground between Travis is & where Tomlinson seems to be - there's room for Scotty to be a relative success if he finds himself in that middle ground.

Scott Wharton clearly has some ability, and for me will have a decent career, and maybe when he's 30, he'll have played some Championship football. But if we have ANY ambitions of a top half finish, let alone top 6 or promotion, you can't start a season with a League Two defender lining up next to Darragh. If we do then we're condemning ourselves to yet another consolidation season, and proving once again that we don't have true ambitions of promotion.

[rigger]

Just now, JoeH said:

Fair enough if that's the way you see it. I can't comprehend it though personally.

Let’s agree to disagree, but hope the Rovers get it right.

[Admiral Nelsen]

Just now, JoeH said:

Scott Wharton clearly has some ability, and for me will have a decent career, and maybe when he's 30, he'll have played some Championship football. But if we have ANY ambitions of a top half finish, let alone top 6 or promotion, you can't start a season with a League Two defender lining up next to Darragh. If we do then we're condemning ourselves to yet another consolidation season, and proving once again that we don't have true ambitions of promotion.

Absolutely, definitely not advocating him as Tosin's replacement for next season. I don't think I caught the original post on Wharton, so I could be missing the point, but I was just saying that I wouldn't be reading too much into his lack of game time at Ewood - not so often you get a Phil Jones who can take to such a demanding position so well at a young age. 

[tomphil]

It was originally likely more to do with not wanting two young lads in the center of defence together. Lenihen is obviously the better of the 2 and was further down the line so i think it's sensible they've had him out learning his stuff. A wage or some of it off the bill and the chance someone might make a good offer for him with add ons that they feel they can't turn down.

I'd like to see him given an opportunity but it's probably better they get another good CH from somewhere for next season. 

[Rogerb]

46 minutes ago, rigger said:

That is where a manager comes in. He sees both players in training every day. He then makes the decision who he wants to play and who is the backup.

Then on the flip side there is the likes of Jack O'Connell who like wharton didn't get much of a look in so we couldn't make a judgement about who is now a premier league regular

[rigger]

5 minutes ago, Rogerb said:

Then on the flip side there is the likes of Jack O'Connell who like wharton didn't get much of a look in so we couldn't make a judgement about who is now a premier league regular

Exactly, that was the managers decision ( another one on the bad decision pile ).

[roversfan99]

52 minutes ago, JoeH said:

He debuted in 2016, the fact he's only made two appearances in a Rovers shirt, under multiple coaching set ups, isn't a positive for him - it sheds a negative light.

John Buckley, 19, thrown straight in
Lewis Travis at 19, thrown straight in
Ryan Nyambe at 19, thrown straight in

These are the players who succeed, not a 23-year old who's spent the last four years out on loan, mostly in League Two.

I must say that I find your attitude towards players who have spent time on loans to be a strange one, loan spells are a very valid development route and it doesnt suggest that the player is unwanted or not rated, often quite the opposite. Also 23 years old for a centre back is not old, hes not ready for the scrapheap. For him to have been successful playing in Leagues when he has been growing into his body against experienced pros knocking him about is good for his development. You mention Buckley, he hasnt really transitioned fully into the first team and could do with a loan. Would a loan mean that is it for him here and he is not rated? Not at all.

The argument about him starting on the opening day is a strawman argument too as no one has said that. The common consensus has been, can Wharton come back and be part of the squad. Even you acknowledged that by comparing him to Derrick Williams which was a bizarre comparison. We have one contracted very competent centre back, and one injury prone and below average one who also covers left back. We have little money, of course we need to sign a main centre back to replace Adarabioyo externally, but Wharton is at least worth considering as a squad player with plenty of football now under his belt.

[Amo]

55 minutes ago, rigger said:

Exactly, that was the managers decision ( another one on the bad decision pile ).

If you mean Mowbray, it was actually Bowyer who decided to let O'Connell leave. 

[rigger]

13 minutes ago, Amo said:

If you mean Mowbray, it was actually Bowyer who decided to let O'Connell leave. 

I Meant what I said, whoever was the manager at the time . Our discussions was about managers in general, not any one in particular . If you are going to interject, know what the discussion is about.

[Amo]

2 hours ago, rigger said:

I Meant what I said, whoever was the manager at the time . Our discussions was about managers in general, not any one in particular . If you are going to interject, know what the discussion is about.

Alright, calm your tits.

[JacknOry]

8 hours ago, Amo said:

Alright, calm your tits.

You got tits on the brain ?