Season Tickets 2020-21

[Dreams of 1995]

I'm hoping that people are overestimating others' ability to 'fall out of the habit' of football. This isn't like it is a voluntary stay away for some fans. Behind closed doors is a policy forced on us, and presumably by the time it is lifted we will have fans itching to see some football again.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

Waggott has made a significant error in overpricing this season's reduced product for most fans. He has also succeeded in making a loyal, but frustrated fanbase feel he is taking the p***!

Now if he offered the reduced product for all at the OAP concession rate, people would see it amounts to just under £9.00 a game-I think-( with the extra 7 away games on ifollow)

That would shift a lot more tickets and buy some wriggle room...

However, the recent statement has echoes of Mr CR Davies-OMG, I still remember the name- justifying the sale of Keith Newton in December '69.

Call me cynical, but is he paving the way for a big departure?

[Mattyblue]

8 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'm hoping that people are overestimating others' ability to 'fall out of the habit' of football. This isn't like it is a voluntary stay away for some fans. Behind closed doors is a policy forced on us, and presumably by the time it is lifted we will have fans itching to see some football again.

 

Football fans come into different camps. The folk I regularly go to away games with all renewed, our WhatsApp group is full of chat just how you describe, itching to get back.

However, I also know fans that have a season ticket but generally take it or leave it, like a few pints on a Saturday, etc, but don’t particularly obsess about Rovers the rest of the time - not one of those have renewed and I’m not picking up much desperation to get back.

It’s group two we need to worry about ‘getting out the habit’ .
 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Dreams of 1995]

8 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Waggott has made a significant error in overpricing this season's reduced product for most fans. He has also succeeded in making a loyal, but frustrated fanbase feel he is taking the p***!

Now if he offered the reduced product for all at the OAP concession rate, people would see it amounts to just under £9.00 a game-I think-( with the extra 7 away games on ifollow)

That would shift a lot more tickets and buy some wriggle room...

However, the recent statement has echoes of Mr CR Davies-OMG, I still remember the name- justifying the sale of Keith Newton in December '69.

Call me cynical, but is he paving the way for a big departure?

I don't think you can accuse Waggott of over pricing. We are priced within the average ST sale price for Championship clubs. In some areas we are lower than average, ie our most expensive.

Again, the price hike came at a silly time, but for years we as fans have gotten used to a product that is undervalued in respect to its market comparison. Waggott might have sold more tickets had he not raised it by however many % but that was a commercial risk he took. I don't think we would have got anywhere near the 8k sold mark even if prices remained the same as last season.

There's a whole lot of rants about Waggott on here that are both fair and unfair in equal measure. He does strike me as a cheap skate, and everything he does has an element of cheapness to it, but at the same time he is in an almost impossible position of trying to satisfy our now expected low-cost season ticket with the accountants demanding increase in revenue.

If the price hike was too expensive for some then it should be more of a jibe at the modern game. You cannot blame our executives for pricing within the average ticket price. Had we been excessively over the market value then the argument stands up to scrutiny, but the simple fact of the matter is that we are bang average in our pricing. 

[rigger]

11 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don't think you can accuse Waggott of over pricing. We are priced within the average ST sale price for Championship clubs. In some areas we are lower than average, ie our most expensive.

Again, the price hike came at a silly time, but for years we as fans have gotten used to a product that is undervalued in respect to its market comparison. Waggott might have sold more tickets had he not raised it by however many % but that was a commercial risk he took. I don't think we would have got anywhere near the 8k sold mark even if prices remained the same as last season.

There's a whole lot of rants about Waggott on here that are both fair and unfair in equal measure. He does strike me as a cheap skate, and everything he does has an element of cheapness to it, but at the same time he is in an almost impossible position of trying to satisfy our now expected low-cost season ticket with the accountants demanding increase in revenue.

If the price hike was too expensive for some then it should be more of a jibe at the modern game. You cannot blame our executives for pricing within the average ticket price. Had we been excessively over the market value then the argument stands up to scrutiny, but the simple fact of the matter is that we are bang average in our pricing. 

Our pricing may be average, but our salesmanship is the lowest of the low.

[Tom]

Preston offering fans the option of a refund or changing to a 21/22 season ticket 

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2020/september/202021-season-card-update/

[Mattyblue]

Seems like common sense from PNE, as like us, they were late getting them on sale and had a fan backlash re pricing, so will also have sold minimal.

So will we see something similar? Don’t bet on it.

[MarkBRFC]

Contrast that approach from PNE to ours practically begging people to buy them.

[roversfan99]

I would say that offering immediate refunds is going above and beyond to be fair, brilliant by Preston to their fans but not an expectation I would even have as a fan,

I actually think that our package is correct, it eliminates the risk of getting nothing from the season ticket money, as fans know that with the risk they take, even if all season is behind closed doors, the ifollow links make up part of the remuneration and the refund element is deferred, which helps the clubs cash flow and also sort of guarantees season tickets for next year aswell.

The problems are the continued lack of communication, the late release (the fact that the club wanted to wait to "see what they were selling" was always a load of bollocks due to the fluidity of the pandemic, a week after release and everything spins on its head again, there was always a chance of that) and of course most importantly the totally unnecessary and ill timed price rise wrapped in guilt tripping.

[Mattyblue]

Not short of a few bob Trevor Hemmings, but he isn’t Rao family wealthy, you know those of the ‘never refuse a cheque’ fame.

Yet it’s Rovers fans that ‘need to ensure the club’s survival’ by eschewing refunds and signing up to STs for a product that won’t exist.

All most odd.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

I would say that offering immediate refunds is going above and beyond to be fair, brilliant by Preston to their fans but not an expectation I would even have as a fan,

I actually think that our package is correct, it eliminates the risk of getting nothing from the season ticket money, as fans know that with the risk they take, even if all season is behind closed doors, the ifollow links make up part of the remuneration and the refund element is deferred, which helps the clubs cash flow and also sort of guarantees season tickets for next year aswell.

The problems are the continued lack of communication, the late release (the fact that the club wanted to wait to "see what they were selling" was always a load of bollocks due to the fluidity of the pandemic, a week after release and everything spins on its head again, there was always a chance of that) and of course most importantly the totally unnecessary and ill timed price rise wrapped in guilt tripping.

Our package goes above and beyond the likes of Bolton's, who for some reason have been held up by some on here as a "how to do business". Remarkable, really.

No Bolton fan was offered a refund pro-rata the ticket. It was a "buy it and that's it" kind of deal. They are of course helped by the fact their average tickets cost less than an iFollow pass, resulting in an instant saving guaranteed simply by purchasing the ticket anyway. Probably goes a long way to explaining the 7k sales they have had.

The only bad thing Waggott has done in this whole debacle is put that price increase in possibly the most poorly timed money grab I have seen. Literally everything in economics is currently trending towards reduced prices (reduced demand = less cost generally) but here we are.

The club have probably missed a trick here. They could now be saying to supporters: "there's a price increase coming next season providing fans are allowed back in, however if you buy our season ticket as priced now (last years prices) we will freeze your rate for the following year plus reserve your long-standing seat".

That in line with the pro-rata refund would have given us the best package available probably in the League.

[Oldgregg86]

6 hours ago, Athlete said:

Emotional blackmail just isnt washing with me and anyone who I know none of our group have renewed or have any intention during the current climate price rise or not

Agreed. Yet if uncle jack asked after putting his money where his mouth is I’m sure sales wouldn’t even drop. Take note swaggott. With all much uncertainty everywhere and your massively unjustified salary your going to lose a lot of the core . Once that’s gone you have no heartbeat and we all know what happens after that

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Our package goes above and beyond the likes of Bolton's, who for some reason have been held up by some on here as a "how to do business". Remarkable, really.

No Bolton fan was offered a refund pro-rata the ticket. It was a "buy it and that's it" kind of deal. They are of course helped by the fact their average tickets cost less than an iFollow pass, resulting in an instant saving guaranteed simply by purchasing the ticket anyway. Probably goes a long way to explaining the 7k sales they have had.

The only bad thing Waggott has done in this whole debacle is put that price increase in possibly the most poorly timed money grab I have seen. Literally everything in economics is currently trending towards reduced prices (reduced demand = less cost generally) but here we are.

The club have probably missed a trick here. They could now be saying to supporters: "there's a price increase coming next season providing fans are allowed back in, however if you buy our season ticket as priced now (last years prices) we will freeze your rate for the following year plus reserve your long-standing seat".

That in line with the pro-rata refund would have given us the best package available probably in the League.

Yeah the price was an absolute crazy decision on two different levels. People focus on the morality of it, how its treating fans etc but to be honest, I can understand a CEO with no emotional ties to the club treating supporters as customers, the problem is his current strategy or indeed any of his strategies lack any business sense, and he isnt learning. As you say, there is reduced demand, and I think he underappreciates that there is some elasticity in the price when he tries to cash in on the hardcore. As I said yesterday, even without factoring in the long term ramifications of losing fans, you put the price up from £350 to £400 and one fan refusing out of principle would need 7 other people to buy a season ticket to compensate and get that missing income back.

Its about perception too. If they had say put the prices down £50 rather than up £50, undoubtedly people would have been more willing to help out, when even in the worst case scenario, which seems to be playing out, all that would have technically happened is that the deposit of deferred income would be smaller on next years season ticket. At the very minimum, it had to be a price freeze. There is a balance between maximising quantity by keeping prices low, and getting the most from each individual season ticket by charging high prices, there is somewhere in the middle where you get the optimum balance and Waggott always tries to achieve the latter and messes it up.

I maintained throughout when people defending the club for waiting (the lack of communication amidst was salt in the wounds) to see what the service was that they could offer made no sense because they would never know. That was proved correct when they released season tickets thinking that fans could come back, a week later and it seems like the majority of the seasons is behind closed doors.

You mention Bolton, but they have far outsold us, partially because they have loads more time for people to buy season tickets. We had to bring them out sooner. That risk of the uncertainty of the service would have always existed.

[Madon]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Preston offering fans the option of a refund or changing to a 21/22 season ticket 

https://www.pnefc.net/news/2020/september/202021-season-card-update/

There you go Swag, that's how you do it! 

I would buy one tomorrow and consider it a done deal for the 21/22 season. 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Madon said:

There you go Swag, that's how you do it! 

I would buy one tomorrow and consider it a done deal for the 21/22 season. 

Indeed!

So simple and effective.

Well done PNE.

[1864roverite]

Hemings does not provide funding to pne nowadays I am reliably told by a pne stalwart 

[Hasta]

Fair play to Preston but people bought season tickets this season at Ewood knowing the circumstances, the risks and the deal. It was fairly obvious what has happened was a realistic possibility. 

At the start of this thread there are loads of people saying they'd pay their money upfront whatever the risks. 

Im all for slating Waggot  on his many failings, and the price rise was stupidity, but there is little reason why the club should refund season tickets or carry the money over to next season.

Edited September 24, 2020 by Hasta

[roversfan99]

19 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Fair play to Preston but people bought season tickets this season at Ewood knowing the circumstances, the risks and the deal. It was fairly obvious what has happened was a realistic possibility. 

At the start of this thread there are loads of people saying they'd pay their money upfront whatever the risks. 

Im all for slating Waggot  on his many failings, and the price rise was stupidity, but there is little reason why the club should refund season tickets or carry the money over to next season.

I agree that an immediate refund isnt a necessary option. However, I dont get how you could argue that carrying the money over shouldnt be mandatory, and indeed to be fair, it is something that Rovers are doing. 

Preston are presumably concentrating on the long game in terms of keeping fans happy by offering all options. You cant offer no alternative of a refund, but a deferred one keeps the cash flow intact and partially guarantees season ticket holders next season too.

Rovers approach has had many areas of criticism, communication, advertising policy, timing of release and definitely price, but the actual structure of the season tickets are at least something that Waggott got right.

 

[islander200]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

Indeed!

So simple and effective.

Well done PNE.

Preston haven't bought anyone this window and Risdale said no incomings.Their best player Pearson is also out of contract end of the season and doesn't look like he will be signing a new contract.

Giving people the option of a refund on the season tickets is the right thing to do but WE are all on the transfer thread demanding money to be spent on signings aswell.

Waggot hasn't handled the ticket situation well but at least we are spending some money and trying to improve the team to sustain a promotion challenge

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I agree that an immediate refund isnt a necessary option. However, I dont get how you could argue that carrying the money over shouldnt be mandatory, and indeed to be fair, it is something that Rovers are doing. 

Preston are presumably concentrating on the long game in terms of keeping fans happy by offering all options. You cant offer no alternative of a refund, but a deferred one keeps the cash flow intact and partially guarantees season ticket holders next season too.

Rovers approach has had many areas of criticism, communication, advertising policy, timing of release and definitely price, but the actual structure of the season tickets are at least something that Waggott got right.

 

Are Rovers fans getting access to Ifollow for 10 pounds and refund of roughly 7 pounds per game missed by the club. So if I correct a full season of Ifollow games would cost £230 and refund of £169. Is that correct? Plus 7 midweek away games? 

Are Preston fans still got access to Ifollow even if they get a refund? 

Also hasn't Risdale said no incoming this summer? 

Edited September 24, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, islander200 said:

Preston haven't bought anyone this window and Risdale said no incomings.Their best player Pearson is also out of contract end of the season and doesn't look like he will be signing a new contract.

Giving people the option of a refund on the season tickets is the right thing to do but WE are all on the transfer thread demanding money to be spent on signings aswell.

Waggot hasn't handled the ticket situation well but at least we are spending some money and trying to improve the team to sustain a promotion challenge

To be fair, whilst I do agree that an immediate refund is a very commendable but perhaps risky choice for Preston to make, have we spent some money?

We signed Ayala on a free who whilst he is possibly towards the top of our wage bill, it is still a fraction of the wage savings made by letting go numerous players as we did. And Kaminski was a modest fee really. Of course I am not judging them as signings individually by saying that, nor am I saying that we should be spending loads of money at this stage.

Pearson is not unique in that situation, Davies and Johnson are both on one remaining year and are attracting suitors. I worry next season that we will be in the same boat with Lenihan, Dack and Armstrong, with Nyambe already out of contract unless we either go up or get any of them to sign new deals which would be difficult.

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Are Rovers fans getting access to Ifollow for 10 pounds and refund of roughly 7 pounds per game missed by the club. So if I correct a full season of Ifollow games would cost £230 and refund of £169. Is that correct? Plus 7 midweek away games? 

Are Preston fans still got access to Ifollow even if they get a refund? 

Yeah, and I am saying that the structure of our season tickets is something that I agree with. Helps cashflow, ensures that some fans are probably going to get (discounted) season tickets next year, yet also ensures that fans are getting some value from their season ticket.

It is the lack of communication, the tone of the marketing campaign, the late timing of the release of the season tickets and the totally unnecessary price rise that I disagree with.

Preston wont do no but they will get a full refund so they could pick whichever ifollow links they wanted and s

[Hasta]

18 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I agree that an immediate refund isnt a necessary option. However, I dont get how you could argue that carrying the money over shouldnt be mandatory, and indeed to be fair, it is something that Rovers are doing. 

Preston are presumably concentrating on the long game in terms of keeping fans happy by offering all options. You cant offer no alternative of a refund, but a deferred one keeps the cash flow intact and partially guarantees season ticket holders next season too.

Rovers approach has had many areas of criticism, communication, advertising policy, timing of release and definitely price, but the actual structure of the season tickets are at least something that Waggott got right.

 

I've not read the fine print as I never really considered renewing for the reasons I outlined back in July. But as far as I understand it, the club made it clear that for any game you couldn't attend you got an ifollow code and the remaining value off your season ticket next year. So they are carrying the money they class as 'not used' over.

Several people on here said that if season tickets went on sale people might not be in the grounds till next year if at all. Everyone knew that when they purchased, and also knew the above scenario was in place. Yet other said they knew the risks and would buy regardless.

How anyone can turn around now and say "Well I didn't think it would actually happen" is beyond me.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2020 by Hasta

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, Hasta said:

I've not read the fine print as I never really considered renewing for the reasons I outlined back in July. But as far as I understand it, the club made it clear that for any game you couldn't attend you got an ifollow code and the remaining value off your season ticket next year. So they are carrying the money they class as 'not used' over.

Several people on here said that if season tickets went on sale people might not be in the grounds till next year if at all. Everyone knew that when they purchased, and also knew the above scenario was in place. Yet other said they knew the risks and would buy regardless.

How anyone can turn around now and say "Well I didn't think it would actually happen" is beyond me.

 

 

I am saying that the structure of the season tickets is the correct one. Ifollow links and the rest deferred as a refund on next year.

Preston's offer is commendable, offering an immediate refund. Maybe it will turn into a masterstroke with very few people taking up the offer and the relationship between the fans as customers and the club being strengthened due to the goodwill of the gesture.

But I totally understand Rovers in terms of how they have structured the season passes. Had the deferred refund not been offered, that would have been poor, but thankfully it was.

One thing that it does prove is that it was senseless to wait so long to put the season tickets on sale on the basis that they wanted to know what they were selling. They never could have know what they were selling, indeed what they thought they were selling changed a week after

[islander200]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

To be fair, whilst I do agree that an immediate refund is a very commendable but perhaps risky choice for Preston to make, have we spent some money?

We signed Ayala on a free who whilst he is possibly towards the top of our wage bill, it is still a fraction of the wage savings made by letting go numerous players as we did. And Kaminski was a modest fee really. Of course I am not judging them as signings individually by saying that, nor am I saying that we should be spending loads of money at this stage.

Pearson is not unique in that situation, Davies and Johnson are both on one remaining year and are attracting suitors. I worry next season that we will be in the same boat with Lenihan, Dack and Armstrong, with Nyambe already out of contract unless we either go up or get any of them to sign new deals which would be difficult.

Yeah, and I am saying that the structure of our season tickets is something that I agree with. Helps cashflow, ensures that some fans are probably going to get (discounted) season tickets next year, yet also ensures that fans are getting some value from their season ticket.

It is the lack of communication, the tone of the marketing campaign, the late timing of the release of the season tickets and the totally unnecessary price rise that I disagree with.

Preston wont do no but they will get a full refund so they could pick whichever ifollow links they wanted and s

Well we bid 900 grand for Kipre as I do believe that bid was genuine not a ploy to fool us fans , I'm not claiming we are spending fortunes but we would have had to commit a nice few quid to get Ayala here, I don't believe a player of his quality at this level wouldn't have had other offers.We will get at least two more in,they may be loans but they cost aswell.Preston have done nothing and according to their chairman are not likely too.

You make a valid point about a group of our own players being in the same boat so we need to find the money to offer these guys new contracts aswell.

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, islander200 said:

Well we bid 900 grand for Kipre as I do believe that bid was genuine not a ploy to fool us fans , I'm not claiming we are spending fortunes but we would have had to commit a nice few quid to get Ayala here, I don't believe a player of his quality at this level wouldn't have had other offers.We will get at least two more in,they may be loans but they cost aswell.Preston have done nothing and according to their chairman are not likely too.

You make a valid point about a group of our own players being in the same boat so we need to find the money to offer these guys new contracts aswell.

 

To be honest, I think it might be difficult to get them to sign. Armstrong and Dack in particular would probably be best advised to hold off, and if we dont go up and there are teams sniffing around, the power is with them.