Joe Rothwell - A myth or a prospect?

[Guest]

Joe Rothwell seems to be the one player who nobody can agree on, I think Harry Chapman seems to fall into the category too, but when it comes to Rothwell, you hear so many contrasting opinions on him. Some talk about his ability on the ball, but others have been frustrated with his final product too.

What do you think? Is he a bit of a myth or is the hype real? Should he be starting games in 2020/21 or do you believe he's better off the bench?

[roversfan99]

I think most of the excitement around him has fizzled out to be honest. Last season, in 21 starts and 15 sub appearances, his end product was a deflected goal v Reading, a second goal v West Brom and 2 assists. 2 goals and 2 assists in the season before too.

The wide areas need to be fixed, we have not had players in those positions for quite a while who have been effective. Even Armstrong was far better centrally. I suspect they will continue to be neglected.

I dont see how Chapman can fall into that same category baring in mind his season compromised of 78 minutes across 5 sub appearances.

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont see how Chapman can fall into that same category baring in mind his season compromised of 78 minutes across 5 sub appearances.

The category of people liking/disliking him... not talking about playing time.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Myth? He's definitely real.

He's also has potential, if allowed to play his natural game. But he's one of those players who'll lose the ball and get blamed for conceding goals if he doesn't create/score up the other end. File under Chapman. He'd probably do better under a less conservative manager. 

[K-Hod]

34 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rothwell seems to be the one player who nobody can agree on, I think Harry Chapman seems to fall into the category too, but when it comes to Rothwell, you hear so many contrasting opinions on him. Some talk about his ability on the ball, but others have been frustrated with his final product too.

What do you think? Is he a bit of a myth or is the hype real? Should he be starting games in 2020/21 or do you believe he's better off the bench?

Think Chapman might just be you pal ?

[MarkBRFC]

This time 12 months ago I was quite excited by him, he started our last 6 games of the previous season, and got a couple of goals and assists.

The shirt was his for the start of 19/20, so of course Mowbray starts the season with him back on the bench, think he only had two starts by the end of October.

As said above the excitement around him as definitely fizzled out now, and he'll never get any consistency going under Mowbray unfortunately.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

33 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rothwell seems to be the one player who nobody can agree on, I think Harry Chapman seems to fall into the category too, but when it comes to Rothwell, you hear so many contrasting opinions on him. Some talk about his ability on the ball, but others have been frustrated with his final product too.

What do you think? Is he a bit of a myth or is the hype real? Should he be starting games in 2020/21 or do you believe he's better off the bench?

Good idea for a thread. He looks to be stuck around 3rd gear at this stage and it's difficult seeing him upping that. Whats his best position even? I think the lazy excuse people make for him is that it's the managers fault. Now as he tends to do, Mowbray did misuse him by starting him when he shouldn't and not starting him when he should,  but Rothwell has had chances and rarely grabs them. I'm not even sure I know what he is good at anymore, he had a poor season. 

I would say I would have more hope for Chapman breaking through than Rothwell. 

I play a good bit of Pro evo these days and interestingly he is the lowest rated player in our starting 11. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

He'd probably do better under a less conservative manager. 

What's his best position? Out wide or through the middle?

[MarkBRFC]

He's definitely not a winger.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

This time 12 months ago I was quite excited by him, he started our last 6 games of the previous season, and got a couple of goals and assists.

The shirt was his for the start of 19/20, so of course Mowbray starts the season with him back on the bench, think he only had two starts by the end of October.T

As said above the excitement around him as definitely fizzled out now, and he'll never get any consistency going under Mowbray unfortunately.  

Same as I said in the post after you. So frustrating. I suppose we have to give Mowbray the benefit of the doubt having seen him in pre-season and it not being immediate back to back games, but it frustrated me a lot. He is clearly a real confidence player and Mowbray definitely hasn't been good for that with some of his comments, but i suppose that's football and he needs to toughen up. He could be better under a different manager, but the jury is still out. Even those games where he was flying were essentially dead rubbers. Can he do it when the chips are down? I wouldn't bet on him at the moment. 

[JacknOry]

6 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

This time 12 months ago I was quite excited by him, he started our last 6 games of the previous season, and got a couple of goals and assists.

The shirt was his for the start of 19/20, so of course Mowbray starts the season with him back on the bench, think he only had two starts by the end of October.

As said above the excitement around him as definitely fizzled out now, and he'll never get any consistency going under Mowbray unfortunately.  

Yup, i was really excited to see if he could carry that form on this season - only for TM to put a stop to that immediately. I agree with the rest of your post that the excitement has gone a little and I am not sure if he will ever become that player that we all hoped. Whether it is confidence, the need for consistent selection or whatever, we only seem to get a burst of good games from him each season.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

47 minutes ago, JoeH said:

What's his best position? Out wide or through the middle?

Somewhere he can pick the ball up and run at the oppo. Dack's role but a bit deeper.

He couldn't do any worse than SG out wide right to be fair. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

Best player in the squad at running with the ball in the middle third; useless in the defensive third; almost as useless in the attacking third -runs into traffic, can’t cross, shooting very hit or miss. His terrible goals/assist record doesn’t lie, starts as many counter-attacks against us as for us.

[Colt Seavers]

1 hour ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rothwell seems to be the one player who nobody can agree on, I think Harry Chapman seems to fall into the category too...

Great thread Joe but I think your opening sentence belongs in the 'footballisms'thread.

Big Ron eat your heart out.

[tomphil]

Fast becoming a myth, another the manager doesn't really know what to make of  but he's given him chances this season and player himself can't find any rythmn.

More comfortable a level below probably.

Edited August 12, 2020 by tomphil

[Mattyblue]

He’s 26 in a few months, can’t really be put in the ‘prospect’ category.

Maybe this is all there is with him and why being in and out of a middling Championship side is the best it’s going to get  - technically gifted player, but he just hasn’t ironed out his weak points, most notably zero end product.

Edited August 12, 2020 by Mattyblue

[Herbie6590]

Has undoubted ability but far too often makes poor decisions resulting in no real end product i.e. takes on one man too many, poor pass selection & so on. But when he does turn it on, he is really eye-catching....so why the lack of consistency ? 
Without seeing him every day in training &/or knowing the guy, it’s hard to know what motivates him...carrot or stick. TM seems to have chewed him out publicly on a few occasions so he seems to think stick...but Rothwell hasn’t noticeably improved so time for a new approach ?
if our coaching staff was all that, Rothwell is exactly the sort of player that you should see improve season on season & I don’t think he has...

[Exiled_Rover]

He's a talented player that has been mismanaged. 

I think he's a CM who's been asked to play at AML because he's got a bit of pace and Mowbray has a love affair with a certain formation (and hasn't bought himself a squad to play it properly!).

Put him alongside Travis (I'm under no illusions that we're going to sign a CM to compliment Travis) and give him a run of games. He TERRIFIES teams carrying the ball through the centre. He's athletic enough to get up and down the pitch and his defensive deficiencies are widely overblown. It also masks the fact that his final ball isn't great - even though his range of passing / vision is generally pretty good for this level. 

 

Of course this won't happen, so he'll go down as a bust. 

[roversfan99]

Just now, Exiled_Rover said:

He's a talented player that has been mismanaged. 

I think he's a CM who's been asked to play at AML because he's got a bit of pace and Mowbray has a love affair with a certain formation (and hasn't bought himself a squad to play it properly!).

Put him alongside Travis (I'm under no illusions that we're going to sign a CM to compliment Travis) and give him a run of games. He TERRIFIES teams carrying the ball through the centre. He's athletic enough to get up and down the pitch and his defensive deficiencies are widely overblown. It also masks the fact that his final ball isn't great - even though his range of passing / vision is generally pretty good for this level. 

 

Of course this won't happen, so he'll go down as a bust. 

Can you really see him playing in a central midfield 2? His strengths are running at defenders which means he needs to be further up the pitch. He almost certainly lacks the discipline to be one of the 2 central midfielders.

Evans compliments Travis the best.

[BlackburnEnd75]

People have short memories when it comes to Rothwell I find. Second to last game of the season vs reading he was outstanding. 

For me his position is left of a midfield 3. He needs the ball to feet and to drive 

[darrenrover]

He's potentially an entertainer, a player we as supporters crave, a player that has the ability to beat a man.

Whether he's good enough on a consistent basis, I'm unsure, hence why he may fall under the 'myth' category.

He's like Chapman, that we all want to be a success because we all want to be on the edge of our seat during matches and not have to endure 90 minutes of 65% possession in our own half that comes to nowt.

 

[arbitro]

He is probably our quickest player running with the ball but sometimes it appears that his feet are quicker than his brain. I find it infuriating when he runs inside into traffic instead of running forward down the line or into the channels. After two seasons I would have thought this could have been coached our of him but alas not. I wouldn't ditch him yet but he needs to improve aspects of his game to put him into the regular first team category.

[Exiled_Rover]

48 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Can you really see him playing in a central midfield 2? His strengths are running at defenders which means he needs to be further up the pitch. He almost certainly lacks the discipline to be one of the 2 central midfielders.

Evans compliments Travis the best.

If you're playing Evans and Travis together in CM, you'd better have worldies at FB or up front. They provide nothing in attack. It's an incredibly negative way to set up your team. 

I'd ask him to play CM with Travis with the understanding that Dack is playing AMC / #10 so he needs to get back when we don't have the ball. He's also MOST threatening when running with the ball through the centre - I watched a lot of iFollow post-lockdown and pretty much every commentator was marveling at how much panic he was sowing simply by being willing / able to carry the ball through the middle. 

Travis can cover for him - that's what he does best. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, BlackburnEnd75 said:

People have short memories when it comes to Rothwell I find. Second to last game of the season vs reading he was outstanding. 

For me his position is left of a midfield 3. He needs the ball to feet and to drive 

How could we have forgotten that crucial game  

[Bigdoggsteel]

I think it's summed up by his lack of end product being his undoing. More often than not he picks the wrong option, a lot of the time after doing the hard part.