Joe Rothwell - A myth or a prospect?

[DeeCee]

You must have plenty of time on your hands by the length of some of your posts BB ?

Edited August 13, 2020 by DeeCee

[bluebruce]

30 minutes ago, DeeCee said:

You must have plenty of time on your hands by the length of some of your posts BB ?

I'm a very fast typer.

[tomphil]

12 hours ago, davulsukur said:

Rochina MK2

Definitely has the talent but can't seem to fit into the team anywhere.

Under Mowbray his best chance is going to be on one side of a midfield 3.

I feel like he should be starting on one side of a front 3 (if we are continuing this 4-3-3 formation) but it doesn't seem to work for him there. His end product is a problem but surely his coaching should be focused on that?

How many have we in our squad that are more comfortable right side of a front 3 ? 

How many times does it actually work ? 

We collect wide forward for fun yet this guy can't mould at least one of them into a regular success.

[Leonard Venkhater]

19 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He doesn't bring enough to the table to play out wide or oust Dack behind the main striker.

His defensive weakness is massively overblown.

Period...

[Exiled_Rover]

2 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Period...

Same could be said for half the team, if we're brutally honest.

At least Joe has some potential.

[Guest]

On 13/08/2020 at 01:11, bluebruce said:

Another player who used to only have hot patches, though probably more of them or more sustained than JR, is Arma.

And interestingly, when you compare some of our forwards, Armstrong has only improved this season because unlike the others he's compared to in this graph, he's started taking over 2 shots a game now.

If you look at Rothwell in yellow, and Armstrong in dark blue, it's clear to see that Joe Rothwell simply doesn't shoot often enough. He may have greedy spells on the ball, but like Armstrong 2018, he doesn't have the confidence to have a shot on goal. Post-lockdown the only thing thta changed about his game was he had a few efforts - and like John Buckley discovered at home to Sheffield Wed and away at Charlton, it doesn't have to be an amazing shot, get it on target and see what happens.

Rothwell is matching Armstrong for Key passes and successful dribbles, in some areas even beating him, but that shots on target per game disparity is the thing I believe is holding him back.

 

[roversfan99]

The main reason for Armstrongs improvement has been playing mainly from a more central position, although post lockdown he played wider until the last 2 games, when he scored 2 more goals.

If we can get him and Dack working in the same team from central roles and tighten up at the other end we might have half a chance.

[chaddyrovers]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

And interestingly, when you compare some of our forwards, Armstrong has only improved this season because unlike the others he's compared to in this graph, he's started taking over 2 shots a game now.

If you look at Rothwell in yellow, and Armstrong in dark blue, it's clear to see that Joe Rothwell simply doesn't shoot often enough. He may have greedy spells on the ball, but like Armstrong 2018, he doesn't have the confidence to have a shot on goal. Post-lockdown the only thing thta changed about his game was he had a few efforts - and like John Buckley discovered at home to Sheffield Wed and away at Charlton, it doesn't have to be an amazing shot, get it on target and see what happens.

Rothwell is matching Armstrong for Key passes and successful dribbles, in some areas even beating him, but that shots on target per game disparity is the thing I believe is holding him back.

 

Rothwell need to shoot more. He has the talent and I would start him every game

[Guest]

25 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The main reason for Armstrongs improvement has been playing mainly from a more central position, although post lockdown he played wider until the last 2 games, when he scored 2 more goals.

Armstrong still plays off the left, even when he's "up front". He's a wide forward, the only one of which who actually works well in that position, but I wouldn't say he's usually particularly central. Reading at home he was quite central, and Luton away I thought he got isolated in central spaces a lot, but in general he's off the left really

[roversfan99]

Just now, JoeH said:

Armstrong still plays off the left, even when he's "up front". He's a wide forward, the only one of which who actually works well in that position, but I wouldn't say he's usually particularly central. Reading at home he was quite central, and Luton away I thought he got isolated in central spaces a lot, but in general he's off the left really

Once Dack was injured, he played far more centrally and was far more effective. Thats why he started getting more goals. There was also an excellent performance at Sheffield Wednesday where he got 2 assists.

He was much more central in the last 2 games too. He will always have that tendency to stray to the sides on occasion but he is far more effective centrally.

Against Reading he was essentially left of a front 2, in a 4-2-2-2 formation, same v Luton. If anyone tended to spend more time wide, it was Brereton which allowed Holtby to come inside.

[bluebruce]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

And interestingly, when you compare some of our forwards, Armstrong has only improved this season because unlike the others he's compared to in this graph, he's started taking over 2 shots a game now.

If you look at Rothwell in yellow, and Armstrong in dark blue, it's clear to see that Joe Rothwell simply doesn't shoot often enough. He may have greedy spells on the ball, but like Armstrong 2018, he doesn't have the confidence to have a shot on goal. Post-lockdown the only thing thta changed about his game was he had a few efforts - and like John Buckley discovered at home to Sheffield Wed and away at Charlton, it doesn't have to be an amazing shot, get it on target and see what happens.

Rothwell is matching Armstrong for Key passes and successful dribbles, in some areas even beating him, but that shots on target per game disparity is the thing I believe is holding him back.

 

Problem is this only shows shots on target, not shots taken. Without overall shots for context, this could just mean Armstrong is far better at taking shots.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, bluebruce said:

Problem is this only shows shots on target, not shots taken. Without overall shots for context, this could just mean Armstrong is far better at taking shots.

Joe Rothwell averaged 0.8 shots per game in 2019/20, with 0.3 of those on target.

Adam Armstrong averaged 3 shots per game in 2019/20, with 2.2 of those on target.

It's a disparity of both shots taken and the quality of the ones that are.

[bluebruce]

52 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rothwell averaged 0.8 shots per game in 2019/20, with 0.3 of those on target.

Adam Armstrong averaged 3 shots per game in 2019/20, with 2.2 of those on target.

It's a disparity of both shots taken and the quality of the ones that are.

Yeh, with worse shooting quality, it wouldn't be right for him to take more pops from distance than he does (except when he hits those hot streaks, which I hope he can do more often). So it's a good thing he isn't doing it more, for now. He may even be under instruction to limit it a bit.

Rothwell's sample size is smaller though and therefore more likely to vary with more games.

Edited August 14, 2020 by bluebruce

[Exiled in Toronto]

7 hours ago, JoeH said:

And interestingly, when you compare some of our forwards, Armstrong has only improved this season because unlike the others he's compared to in this graph, he's started taking over 2 shots a game now.

If you look at Rothwell in yellow, and Armstrong in dark blue, it's clear to see that Joe Rothwell simply doesn't shoot often enough. He may have greedy spells on the ball, but like Armstrong 2018, he doesn't have the confidence to have a shot on goal. Post-lockdown the only thing thta changed about his game was he had a few efforts - and like John Buckley discovered at home to Sheffield Wed and away at Charlton, it doesn't have to be an amazing shot, get it on target and see what happens.

Rothwell is matching Armstrong for Key passes and successful dribbles, in some areas even beating him, but that shots on target per game disparity is the thing I believe is holding him back.

 

These stats miss out what for me are his biggest weaknesses other than poor on target shot %: misplaced passes, crossing, tackles made vs lost.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

These stats miss out what for me are his biggest weaknesses other than poor on target shot %: misplaced passes, crossing, tackles made vs lost.

I wasn't really aiming to do a full statistical analysis on it, more just look at the difference in shots on target as I think it's an area Mowbray has discussed on several occasions pre and post game when talking about JR.

[DeeCee]

6 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

For me, Rothwell is in the same category of player as Kasey Palmer or Ruben Rochina; a player with talent on the ball, but one who we struggle to fit into our first XI and does not seem to have a best position - otherwise known as a luxury player. If he left Rovers tomorrow, I wouldn't be massively bothered.

We wouldn't notice.

[LeftWinger]

On 13/08/2020 at 03:19, bluebruce said:

I'm a very fast typer.

Just no end product ?

[bluebruce]

27 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Just no end product ?

Dunno about that, I make about 2 good posts a year.

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[roversfan99]

Good start, lets hope it can continue. He has had 2 impressive games there so we need consistency and some goals from that position from him. 

[philipl]

Rothwell is doing serious damage to the opposition from the position he plays in now.

Really hope he stays fit and keeps this going.

[MarkBRFC]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Mowbray not playing someone in there favourite position?

No, I'm not having it.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

Nice words from Mogga. That must inspire you as a player when you get backing like that from the manager.

[JacknOry]

Couple of assists already, which previously he would be lucky to have got that number in a season. His end product is a question but he has started well and seems to have found (or TM has finally seen) his best position. Really needs to work on his finishing though, always goes for placement with tame shots. Still, id take a ton of assists from him if he doesn't get too many goals. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

2 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Mowbray not playing someone in there favourite position?

No, I'm not having it.

Not sure we should’ve switched to 4-4-3 earlier solely to get him in his favoured position.