Doncaster Rovers (H) CARABAO CUP RND1 - Sat 29th Aug

[only2garners]

11 hours ago, rigger said:

When is the draw for the next round?

Most of the games are only this weekend - we brought ours forward because of International call ups this week.

[LDRover]

On 31/08/2020 at 08:27, Blue blood said:

The reason people keep bringing up the strikers not scoring issue is because you focus on a minor part of Nayambe's role and are comparatively less critical of a major part of our strikers game. It comes across as hypocritical. 

I think it's hilarious that Chaddy can base an argument on a defender's attacking deficiencies yet choose to ignore our attackers' lack of threat.

The lad didn't need COVID to exist in a bubble that's for sure.

[m1st]

17 hours ago, only2garners said:

Most of the games are only this weekend - we brought ours forward because of International call ups this week.

So, presumably, the draw for the next Round is some time after 5.00 on Saturday.

[chaddyrovers]

On 31/08/2020 at 08:27, Blue blood said:

Again I seem a tad bemused by this done to death on strikers thing so move on, as am fairly confident you mention the Nayambe attacking issue every time he is dropped or treated shabbily by our infallible manager. 

The corner you are backing yourself into is totally daft. Wilcox only played 27 games - terrible stat which ignores how many whipped in crosses resulted in goals, even if there was a bit of a scuffle first. You totally ignore the point being made. Everyone saw, the team even said ,the plan was get it wide then cross it in, yet you try to wiggle out of the assists aren't that accurate issue by saying how few games Wilcox played. 

The reason people keep bringing up the strikers not scoring issue is because you focus on a minor part of Nayambe's role and are comparatively less critical of a major part of our strikers game. It comes across as hypocritical. 

Well we have discussed and debate the lack of goals and assists from Gallagher and Brereton for the past season. Its the same points everyone makes weekly and monthly. 

But Nyambe's attacking side of his game hasn't improve enough for me. No goals or assists last season from him playing right back.  

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But Nyambe's attacking side of his game hasn't improve enough for me. No goals or assists last season from him playing right back.  

Would you not class the 2nd goal away to Sheffield Wednesday as an assist for him?

[bazza]

On 31/08/2020 at 08:24, rigger said:

When is the draw for the next round?

 

8 hours ago, m1st said:

So, presumably, the draw for the next Round is some time after 5.00 on Saturday.

Yes.

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Would you not class the 2nd goal away to Sheffield Wednesday as an assist for him?

nope. 

Its a own goal 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

nope. 

Its a own goal 

Then you are just roving the stupidity of your own stats as without Nyambe's work that goal is not scored.

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

Then you are just roving the stupidity of your own stats as without Nyambe's work that goal is not scored.

reverting to insults now. 

We aren't going to agree so we have to agree to disagree on this

[Ewood Ace]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

reverting to insults now. 

We aren't going to agree so we have to agree to disagree on this

I'm not insulting you I am insulting the stupidity of the stats. By the literal definition of assist then Nyambe did assist the goal. But by your stats' definition even though Nyambe ran with the ball took on a player and picked out Travis, he did not assist a goal.

It's like JRC's goal the weekend its clear as day to anyone that it was an assist by Brereton but using your stats defenition it is not classed as an assist by him. Yet if someone passes to a player in his own penalty box and that player runs the length of the pitch with the ball and scores then the player who passed to him in his own box gets an assist. Does that not seem a bit stupid to you?

[philipl]

Reading this thread, I feel fully justified in having zero faith in Mowbray.

I would love to see our current crop of players under different management.

It would probably be a revelation.

 

[Blue blood]

9 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Well we have discussed and debate the lack of goals and assists from Gallagher and Brereton for the past season. Its the same points everyone makes weekly and monthly. 

But Nyambe's attacking side of his game hasn't improve enough for me. No goals or assists last season from him playing right back.  

Well I'm not sure about the logic behind ignoring/dismissing a point that illustrates the weakness of your argument because it has been regularly used. (In fact this debate has probably in part added to it's usage, but there we go...) 

Two key reasons why I think you are way off the mark on this, aside from the assist nonsense. Think it's clear as day you can contribute to goals without making the final pass and it is churlish to ignore that. 

Firstly the team isn't set up to help Nayambe improve offensively. Let's say he gets to the byline and whips in a cross, who will be on the end of it. Armstrong is small, Bereton is poor in the air, as was Samuel. Loads of our players don't really attack the ball in the penalty area. And when we played with a false 9 then there's no one even vaguely meant to be in that position. You could have Duff and Ripley whipping them in and it would be to no avail if there's no one to get on the end of them. 

Not only that but a key part of an offensive full back is working well with your wide midfielder/wide attacker. Again, Nayambe has little support here. The best example I can remember of this is Emerton and Bentley. When Bentley got the ball Emerton would bomb past on the overlap, stretching the defence, leaving the opposition vulnerable either to Bentley cutting inside further or the pass out wide and cross in from Emerton. Can remember getting excited every time those two got the ball in those dangerous areas. Anyway the point of this is it only works if you have a solid wide midfielder, one who can dribble, cut inside, wait for the overlap and exploit the situation. In the likes of Gally, Samuel and Bereton last season out wide, that clearly wasn't the case. Whether it's lack of ability or nous is debatable, but there wasn't anyone who linked well with the right back offensively. So it's a bit harsh to blame the lack of attacking ability all upon Nayambe. Like TM it seems he is a convenient scapegoat for team failings. 

The second reason even more crucially is that being able to attack well is a bonus for a full back. Before you say agree to disagree - which really is saying let's forget the relative merits of different positions - considering for a moment most of Rovers full backs over time. How many of them have been attacking? Not too many that I can think of bar Emerton. It's not their main role. Further evidence of this can be seen when Bennett plays right back (something I distinctly remember you championing because he was better offensively). All that offensive "prowess" is offset by his defensive weaknesses. Why, because defending is a bigger part of the job. First and foremost a defender has to be able to defend. If they can't do that then they will do more damage than they will benefit. It's why Amoruso (admittedly a CB) was such a liability. He would get us a goal but cost us a fair few too. Or Steven Reid at RB. Great engine, cracking shot but not the positional sense to play there. Defenders bread and butter is defending and that is their first responsibility for them. Just look at who is trying to stop the wide forwards when they attack and you see it in practice. 

Actually, I said two things but there's a few more, sorry. 

You also need to consider we ain't in the market for the Robinsons and Alexander Arnold's of this world. All championship players have weaknesses and limitations, the manager isn't going to find the next Carlos and Cafu at full back. And like with all championship players a manager needs to maximise their strengths and limit their weaknesses. To suddenly change this reality for Nayambe seems a little unusual. You aren't crying out for Lenihen to go because he isn't a ball playing centre back or for Armstrong because of his lack of defensive work. Dack can only really play in the hole effectively and these are our best players and they have limitations. I haven't even started on our strikers! But given this is the reality for championship players why does this criteria go out the window for Nayambe? His main strengths are much greater than his weaknesses, so he is worth his place in the team. Given you defended Walton for so long, whose weaknesses outweighed his strengths I do wonder how Nayambe gets such a poor deal.

It's also worth on a final note recognising our key issue is leaking goals not scoring them. It surprises me we can have such a collection of misfits and Armstrong up front and yet score a decent number but we do. The issue is keeping them out. Surely this again dictates we need defenders who can defend and this is where our priority lies rather in more attacking threats. 

So yeah, in short I think you are judging Nayambe way out of line. Outside of following TM I can't really see any reason to have him as a scapegoat. 

 

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Firstly the team isn't set up to help Nayambe improve offensively

I personally don't think there's any proof for that. We're opertaing with extremely high full-backs. He should've scored vs Cardiff, was the furthest player forward on the pitch. 

Joe Rankin-Costello has managed 2x Assists and 2x Goals in pre-season from RB, albeit one game was against Barrow.

[Blue blood]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

I personally don't think there's any proof for that. We're opertaing with extremely high full-backs. He should've scored vs Cardiff, was the furthest player forward on the pitch. 

Joe Rankin-Costello has managed 2x Assists and 2x Goals in pre-season from RB, albeit one game was against Barrow.

That's a good point, thanks Joe. I think my point was based on seeing a few Gally horror shows wide right and the false 9 experiment (and crossing issues in general). You are right the demand for him to go forward is there, and perhaps more opportunity than I thought. However I still don't think the set up at times has matched up to the demands - linking up with Gally, who to aim for in the box etc.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

That's a good point, thanks Joe. I think my point was based on seeing a few Gally horror shows wide right and the false 9 experiment (and crossing issues in general). You are right the demand for him to go forward is there, and perhaps more opportunity than I thought. However I still don't think the set up at times has matched up to the demands - linking up with Gally, who to aim for in the box etc.

Yeah I think Amari'i Bell naturally gets a lot more space down the left to work in than Nyambe, which is why I get so frustrated with Bell. Because Armstrong comes inside, it leaves these huge gaps for Bell to run into with the ball, but he rarely does that successfully. Nyambe is often in an overcrowded right-wing area, dominated by tall Sam Gallagher and often Lewis Travis who drifts over.

[roversfan99]

4 hours ago, JoeH said:

I personally don't think there's any proof for that. We're opertaing with extremely high full-backs. He should've scored vs Cardiff, was the furthest player forward on the pitch. 

Joe Rankin-Costello has managed 2x Assists and 2x Goals in pre-season from RB, albeit one game was against Barrow.

He seemingly came on in an attacking position based on the team line up v Barrow and he scored a penalty anyway.

The most important thing is that Rankin Costello is clearly not a defender and thus was regularly seen out of position or beaten by the winger of Doncaster.

Nyambe is a far better defender which is the main priority.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

He seemingly came on in an attacking position based on the team line up v Barrow and he scored a penalty anyway.

The most important thing is that Rankin Costello is clearly not a defender and thus was regularly seen out of position or beaten by the winger of Doncaster.

Nyambe is a far better defender which is the main priority.

I could be wrong but it looks to me like we are being readied for Nyambe leaving. 

[Atko's Engine]

I see Forest, Norwich, Huddersfield, Swansea & Cardiff all got dumped out of the cup in shock results today, & of course Derby scraped through against Barrow on pens. 

Besides Derby (who had a young team out) I've no idea what strength sides were put out for each match but they're all teams you'd expect to be pushing for promotion next season. Whether or not they've taken the view of preferring just to concentrate on the league, I can only imagine the furore on here if we'd been amongst them for failing to beat Doncaster...

[Atko's Engine]

Brum too, lost at home to Cambridge. Not an ideal start for Karanka.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

7 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I see Forest, Norwich, Huddersfield, Swansea & Cardiff all got dumped out of the cup in shock results today, & of course Derby scraped through against Barrow on pens. 

Besides Derby (who had a young team out) I've no idea what strength sides were put out for each match but they're all teams you'd expect to be pushing for promotion next season. Whether or not they've taken the view of preferring just to concentrate on the league, I can only imagine the furore on here if we'd been amongst them for failing to beat Doncaster...

It's essentially pre-season. I wouldn't say they were shock results or that they are indicative of the teams that will push for promotion. 

It's also been a weird pre-season, essentially there hasn't been much of one. Teams won't properly get up to speed for quite a few weeks and can still strengthen for another 5 or 6 weeks from the start of the season. It's going to be Nov/Dec before the league settles down and the 2 or 3 real quality teams emerge. Then it's normally a battle for PO positions between about another 10. We should definitely be in that PO mix if we get some quality defenders in before the deadline. 

It's all up for grabs in what doesn't look a particularly vintage Championship year.

 

 

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

Brum too, lost at home to Cambridge. Not an ideal start for Karanka.

All after they had made six new signings.

[Atko's Engine]

9 hours ago, Atko's Engine said:

I see Forest, Norwich, Huddersfield, Swansea & Cardiff all got dumped out of the cup in shock results today, & of course Derby scraped through against Barrow on pens. 

Besides Derby (who had a young team out) I've no idea what strength sides were put out for each match but they're all teams you'd expect to be pushing for promotion next season. Whether or not they've taken the view of preferring just to concentrate on the league, I can only imagine the furore on here if we'd been amongst them for failing to beat Doncaster...

Shock was perhaps the wrong word; upset would've been better.

I take your point re pre-season; it was just intended to be an observation that 6 of our league competitors went out to mostly lower league opposition in circumstances where had we done the same many would be foaming at the mouth, but no-one seemed to bat an eyelid that such results had occurred to other clubs that supposedly have better managers than ours and / or better transfer policies.

You're right about the cream rising by November; so let's see where we are then before starting to pass judgment on this weird transfer window.

[roversfan99]

5 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

All after they had made six new signings.

Of which 2 started.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Brentford only just beat Wycombe on penalties.