Doncaster Rovers (H) CARABAO CUP RND1 - Sat 29th Aug

[roversfan99]

5 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

To be fair, I think there's a point to be made... We often hear about Nyambe being excellent at going forward, but it's difficult to see what that's backed up by if it comes to no effect. There are occasions where it's great to see Ryan muscle his way past a full-back, but that tends to be as far as it goes.

To confirm, I like Ryan, but he has to start being more effective if he's to live up to what we build him up as. A big season ahead for him, as with Brereton.

Do we often hear that he is excellent at going forward? I thought the common consensus is that he is a defensive full back who can defend one on one and has pace and power but struggles in the attacking third. 

Rankin Costello on the other hand is clearly not a full back at all. Nyambe isnt repeatedly caught out of position like he was yesterday. Obviously he scored but I dont think Rankin Costello did much in terms of creating chances.

[USABlue]

19 hours ago, Tugay-is-God said:

It's funny that all those that worry about Mowbray coaching flair/ability out  of players, are also the ones that would never credit him for his coaching improving Armstrong/Travis/Nyambe/anyone. 

Travis?  I think not he is not as aggressive moving forwards as he was.  Mowbary there.  Nyambe's improved in spite of Mowbary.  The lad has a fragile confidence and Mowbarys handling of him has done much to destroy his confidence.  I mean come on the kid omays a blinder then is in explicably dropped for Elliot Bennett tell me that is not a slap in the face and a confidence killer.  I would say the lad had personally took the bit between his teeth and said screw em.  Yet Mowbary will still drop him for no apparent reason other than Elliot must be blowing him.

Edited August 30, 2020 by USABlue

[joey_big_nose]

I've been chewing over the peformance. I think really we are playing 433 to try and get both Brereton and and Armstrong into the team. I think however when Dack comes back we've got major problems as be does not fit into that system at all.

We should be thinking of going back to 4231 as it uses our best players in their proper positions. I would gravitate towards :

------------------------------Kaminski

JRC/Nyambe----Lenihan----Wharton----Bell

--------------------------Travis-----Holtby

------------------Dolan-------Dack------Brereton

------------------------------Armstong

Subs: Fisher, Williams, Johnson, Evans, Rothwell, Gallagher, Chapman

Dolan excites me both in terms of his talent but also I think he will bring a lot of balance to the side through proper wide play putting the opposition on the back foot and create a lot of room for others. Could be our best signing in a long time.

Edited August 30, 2020 by joey_big_nose

[Exiled_Rover]

4 hours ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rankin-Costello put in yet another good display. Scored his first senior goal and not a hint of a celebration, grab the ball - back to half way - proper professional who cares about the team. He’s going to be an absolute star for us. 

Ryan Nyambe has been at right back for four, five seasons, sometimes on and off, sometimes permanently. He’s played 115 games for Rovers and never registered a goal contribution. 

It’s a huge shame for Joe that Ryan is so good defensively these days, because I think JRC gets into our team at right-back without him there. 

The conundrum then becomes, where do you play Rankin-Costello? Tough one, I think he’s twice the left-back that Amari’i Bell is, but Mowbray doesn’t see it that way. We’ll end up wasting a great talent and losing JRC if we don’t find a permanent way of getting him into the team full time.

JRC isn't a full back. That's clear as day. 

You play him at AML or AMR. It's not like anyone has nailed down those positions. 

[USABlue]

16 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I'm going to be what I think (without going through all the comments) is a lone voice of disagreement about Dolan. To a degree at least.

My view of him so far after today is the same as it was after I saw whichever friendly it was recently. Yes he's exciting, very young, quick with tidy feet. Good work rate too, and wants to make things happen. But I'm still seeing him run into a few too many blind alleys for now. I feel there's a degree to which the main difference he has to Rothwell other than height (and experience) is that he has just shown up and is only 18. He's still fresh and exciting to us.

I suspect this is going to become more apparent to more fans as the season goes on, and even more, TM is going to want to deal with it by curbing some of his instincts and get him to play more conservatively to keep possession longer as he is fond of (when personally I think he just needs better knowledge of when the run he is picturing isn't feasible and he should either play a pass or go a little wider to pass his man). These are just friendlies and he will be very, very eager to make his mark in them having just shown up after PNE discarded him. I think he might end up in the Rothwell category in a few regards with many, for a while, especially when some of his enthusiasm and TM's free rein allowance subside when the real cut and thrust begins.

That said, he really is exciting, especially coming from such a low profile swoop (which is adding to his wow factor for now) and is very young compared to when Rothwell and even Chapman (second time) arrived. If he starts using his head a little more wisely, and this ability isn't a flash in the pan new recruit effect, we could have a real asset on our hands over the next year or two. For now I think the bench role in competitive games is about right, coming on with the x factor. I suspect if he starts against Bournemouth he will get found out and it could set him back.

I don't expect this to be a popular post given how many have waxed lyrical lol

Exactly.  Stop him from playing to his strengths, stop him being instinctive, stop him from exciting the crowd, make him play a game that is not his natural game.  A la Travis.  Trot out the Smallwood Evans line.  It's what Mowbary does.

[USABlue]

4 hours ago, JoeH said:

Joe Rankin-Costello put in yet another good display. Scored his first senior goal and not a hint of a celebration, grab the ball - back to half way - proper professional who cares about the team. He’s going to be an absolute star for us. 

Ryan Nyambe has been at right back for four, five seasons, sometimes on and off, sometimes permanently. He’s played 115 games for Rovers and never registered a goal contribution. 

It’s a huge shame for Joe that Ryan is so good defensively these days, because I think JRC gets into our team at right-back without him there. 

The conundrum then becomes, where do you play Rankin-Costello? Tough one, I think he’s twice the left-back that Amari’i Bell is, but Mowbray doesn’t see it that way. We’ll end up wasting a great talent and losing JRC if we don’t find a permanent way of getting him into the team full time.

Looks easier all round to just replace Mowbary.

[USABlue]

5 hours ago, Waggy76 said:

Preston have a superior mamager , end of !!

Exactly.

[USABlue]

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

To be fair, I think there's a point to be made... We often hear about Nyambe being excellent at going forward, but it's difficult to see what that's backed up by if it comes to no effect. There are occasions where it's great to see Ryan muscle his way past a full-back, but that tends to be as far as it goes.

To confirm, I like Ryan, but he has to start being more effective if he's to live up to what we build him up as. A big season ahead for him, as with Brereton.

Doesn't help if our two tall forwards are out on the wing with him leaving no one to cross to.

[Hasta]

How did Fulham get promoted if full back Dennis Odoi only got 1 assist? I don't understand it.

 

[tonygreenbank]

18 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Looks easier all round to just replace Mowbary.

Hopefully with a name you can spell correctly.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Hasta said:

How did Fulham get promoted if full back Dennis Odoi only got 1 assist? I don't understand it.

Because they had an absolutely brilliant defence, conceding only 48 goals in 46 games. Meaning Fulham had to create less chances/score less goals to win games. 

[Blue blood]

Didn't see the game so hard to comment but there are a few worries to me from the game - what I have heard and read. 

Firstly no Nayambe bothers me as he is a good championship full back. Sure defensive only but that's first and foremost what we need. Shame if he is forced out as it makes the defence even weaker. 

Needing to score 3 to win and Bereton missing a sitter seems all too familiar. 

JRC really should be further forward than full back. He can do it but not his natural position imo. 

Not sure how that formation accommodates Dack. Not am I convinced we shouldn't be building a team around him.

The squad seems really thin and weak. A decent first 11 but after that it gets a bit grim. 

Nothing ground breaking in this and I appreciate it is still early days and still chance to make signings. And perhaps my thoughts are a bit of an echo chamber to others views. But all of the above did fill me with a sense of unease and disquiet. I guess a little like how I felt under Ince pre season and at the start - a nagging sense of impending trouble under the surface. I hope I am wrong, and it's me being overly worried but it all feels a little too familiar. 

 

[Hasta]

4 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Because they had an absolutely brilliant defence, conceding only 48 goals in 46 games. Meaning Fulham had to create less chances/score less goals to win games. 

So are you saying they wanted their defence to simply defend well, and didn't worry about their defenders helping out with offensive duties? And this meant they conceded less goals? 

Wow. Revolutionary.

 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, Hasta said:

How did Fulham get promoted if full back Dennis Odoi only got 1 assist? I don't understand it.

 

But their left back Joe Bryan got 7 assists. 

Odoi played 34 games last season, 26 games as right back, 8 games at either centre back or left back. Christie, the other right back got 1 assist in 24 games there. (Source is Transfermarkt)

 

 

[Kie_BRFC]

59 minutes ago, USABlue said:

Travis?  I think not he is not as aggressive moving forwards as he was.  Mowbary there. 

Disagree with that really, Trav originally was playing in front of the back line, and now he’s playing on the right of a 3. Seems to be spending way more time in the opposite half these days 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But their left back Joe Bryan got 7 assists. 

Odoi played 34 games last season, 26 games as right back, 8 games at either centre back or left back. Christie, the other right back got 1 assist in 24 games there. (Source is Transfermarkt)

 

 

At our level you're not going to get full backs equally adept at attacking and defending. If they were that good they'd be playing in the Prem. We need to decide what we want from the full backs and set out to play that way. 4 at the back- two fullbacks who are primarily defenders. 5 at the back- two full backs who are good on attack. You can't have your cake and eat it in football.

Get some wingers on the pitch and then your not relying on your full backs to make play all the time. 

[Hasta]

27 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But their left back Joe Bryan got 7 assists. 

Odoi played 34 games last season, 26 games as right back, 8 games at either centre back or left back. Christie, the other right back got 1 assist in 24 games there. (Source is Transfermarkt)

 

 

So you don't need your right back to be attack minded to be successful.

My mind is well and truly blown.

You'll be telling me you can get promoted with two right-footed centre halves and two right-footed central midfielders next. ??

 

What do you mean that's what West Brom did !!! ???

Edited August 30, 2020 by Hasta

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, Hasta said:

So you don't need your right back to be attack minded to be successful.

My mind is well and truly blown.

You'll be telling me you can get promoted with two right-footed centre halves and two right-footed central midfielders next. ??

 

What do you mean that's what West Brom did !!! ???

Luke Ayling and Matty Cash both had 5 assists and goals last season. 

Nyambe is good defensive full back but his attacking game isn't good enough IMO. 

in his 130 games for the club in total he has 3 assist, 1 assist in the championship which was he playing centre back and 2 assists in League 1. Do you think that is good enough for full back?

Edited August 30, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Miller11]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Luke Ayling and Matty Cash both had 5 assists and goals last season. 

Nyambe is good defensive full back but his attacking game isn't good enough IMO. 

in his 130 games for the club in total he has 3 assist, 1 assist in the championship which was he playing centre back and 2 assists in League 1. Do you think that is good enough for full back?

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. You fail to acknowledge our strikers aren’t often in positions to get on the end of crosses. You fail to acknowledge Nyambe stays back for every single set piece... maybe because there is no simple statistic that you can trot out to suit your narrative.

Here’s a decent one from last season...

Points per game when Nyambe didn’t start: 1.25

Points per game when Nyambe did start: 1.54

I think you are preparing yourself for him leaving, in the knowledge he is in his final year and Mowbray seems to scapegoat him, so you can say

”I said all along we should get rid Nyambe he not assists enough”

[Hasta]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Luke Ayling and Matty Cash both had 5 assists and goals last season. 

Nyambe is good defensive full back but his attacking game isn't good enough IMO. 

in his 130 games for the club in total he has 3 assist, 1 assist in the championship which was he playing centre back and 2 assists in League 1. Do you think that is good enough for full back?

I would rather he had a more attacking threat, but as long as the defender defends well that's the main thing. 

Henning Berg played right back to win the premier league in 1995 and maybe got one assist all season (?) You wouldn't say that wasn't good enough as he was a key cog in a solid defensive unit.

The usual comeback to that is that the game has changed and you need assists from both your full backs nowadays, but Fulham have just proved that you don't.

Just as West Brom have just proved you don't need to shoe-horn left footers into your defensive or midfield paternerships for 'balance', another over-complicated myth.

Is Nyambe the best denfensive full back we have? Clearly yes in my opinion (although I wouldn't my say he's a great player, more the others are poorer)

If we replace him with a better defender then fine. But first and foremost he has to defend.

Who is better going forward between Bell and Nyambe? Who is the better full back? It's. It not even close.

[roversfan99]

9 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. You fail to acknowledge our strikers aren’t often in positions to get on the end of crosses. You fail to acknowledge Nyambe stays back for every single set piece... maybe because there is no simple statistic that you can trot out to suit your narrative.

Here’s a decent one from last season...

Points per game when Nyambe didn’t start: 1.25

Points per game when Nyambe did start: 1.54

I think you are preparing yourself for him leaving, in the knowledge he is in his final year and Mowbray seems to scapegoat him, so you can say

”I said all along we should get rid Nyambe he not assists enough”

That points per game stat highlights his importance, such a stark difference. Cunningham had a similar record when he played albeit a shorter sample size. It shows how important it is to us to have 2 full backs who can actually defend. 

Ultimately, Nyambe isnt good going forward but its not his primary job.

[Tugay-is-God]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

Travis?  I think not he is not as aggressive moving forwards as he was.  Mowbary there.  Nyambe's improved in spite of Mowbary.  The lad has a fragile confidence and Mowbarys handling of him has done much to destroy his confidence.  I mean come on the kid omays a blinder then is in explicably dropped for Elliot Bennett tell me that is not a slap in the face and a confidence killer.  I would say the lad had personally took the bit between his teeth and said screw em.  Yet Mowbary will still drop him for no apparent reason other than Elliot must be blowing him.

My point exactly.

Anything bad = Mowbray's fault

Anything good = in spite of Mowbray

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I would rather he had a more attacking threat, but as long as the defender defends well that's the main thing. 

Henning Berg played right back to win the premier league in 1995 and maybe got one assist all season (?) You wouldn't say that wasn't good enough as he was a key cog in a solid defensive unit.

The usual comeback to that is that the game has changed and you need assists from both your full backs nowadays, but Fulham have just proved that you don't.

Just as West Brom have just proved you don't need to shoe-horn left footers into your defensive or midfield paternerships for 'balance', another over-complicated myth.

Is Nyambe the best denfensive full back we have? Clearly yes in my opinion (although I wouldn't my say he's a great player, more the others are poorer)

If we replace him with a better defender then fine. But first and foremost he has to defend.

Who is better going forward between Bell and Nyambe? Who is the better full back? It's. It not even close.

Funny you should mention the 94-95 season... I’ve just had a look at the stats for that season. Have a guess how many assists Jason Wilcox was credited with?

4 (four).

I couldn’t possibly provide any better evidence to show that assist stats are utter bollocks.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. You fail to acknowledge our strikers aren’t often in positions to get on the end of crosses. You fail to acknowledge Nyambe stays back for every single set piece... maybe because there is no simple statistic that you can trot out to suit your narrative.

Here’s a decent one from last season...

Points per game when Nyambe didn’t start: 1.25

Points per game when Nyambe did start: 1.54

I think you are preparing yourself for him leaving, in the knowledge he is in his final year and Mowbray seems to scapegoat him, so you can say

”I said all along we should get rid Nyambe he not assists enough”

He isn't the only one the sound of familiar distant PR drums are beating on this one.

A few of us have suspected for ages the first bid that comes in he'll be sold. The dropping of him sometimes has been very head scratching. Yet we are told Bennett just fills in there when Ryan is injured when it clearly hasn't been the case. TM to be fair has backed that up occasionally.

If he's in his final year and won't sign then maybe they are right to phase him out. To me though whilst he's here and he's the best right back he should play, end of. That's what he's paid for.

If he downs tools at any stage then fair enough boot him right down the pecking order 

 

Edited August 30, 2020 by tomphil

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Luke Ayling and Matty Cash both had 5 assists and goals last season. 

Nyambe is good defensive full back but his attacking game isn't good enough IMO. 

in his 130 games for the club in total he has 3 assist, 1 assist in the championship which was he playing centre back and 2 assists in League 1. Do you think that is good enough for full back?

Chaddy you seem more worried about goals and assists from our right back than you do goals from our £7 Million striker who has 2 goals in 2 years. Nyambe is a defender his main aim is to keep the ball out, its the attacker's whose main job's are to score and create goals.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Ewood Ace