Doncaster Rovers (H) CARABAO CUP RND1 - Sat 29th Aug

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. 

Assist stats are one the more stupid stats. Take one of the goals at Sheffield Wednesday, a good run by Nyambe to take on a player, he plays the ball back to Travis whose shot is tipped on to the post and the ball then hits the goalie and goes in. If the the goalie doesn't save it and it goes straight in then Nyambe gets an assist but because it is tipped onto the post and then goes in of the keeper he doesn't get an assist. Just because it isn't classed as an assist it does not change the fact that it was excellent work by Nyambe and without it the goal would not have been scored.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[Blue blood]

2 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. You fail to acknowledge our strikers aren’t often in positions to get on the end of crosses. You fail to acknowledge Nyambe stays back for every single set piece... maybe because there is no simple statistic that you can trot out to suit your narrative.

Here’s a decent one from last season...

Points per game when Nyambe didn’t start: 1.25

Points per game when Nyambe did start: 1.54

I think you are preparing yourself for him leaving, in the knowledge he is in his final year and Mowbray seems to scapegoat him, so you can say

”I said all along we should get rid Nyambe he not assists enough”

I think it's because Chaddy has an aversion to not towing the party line rather than trying to be right. It looks like TM doesn't rate him (and has treated him.absymally for 3 seasons now) so to support the club he rips on Nayambe. 

Have to say basics first with defenders - they need to defend. The clue is in the name. Assists etc are all well and good - even if they can be counted - but first and foremost keeping the ball out of the net. Nayambe has athleticism that cannot be taught, is defensively canny and any other manager would be delighted to have him in a championship team. Problem is he is a scapegoat for all our issues - wide strikers who prefer to be inside and Mr Bennett who can't hold down a position. If we lose him as well for a minimal fee it will be another TM cock up. 

 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

Has it? I think it's widely understood that Ryan is one for frequent injury niggles. Not sure there's anything amiss, really.

Like I said Mowbray himself has said otherwise.

Nobody is saying it's amiss just the manager if he's honest probably would prefer other options. However he has to wee with the Willy he has but can't resist a tweak now and again even when there is no need. Standard TM stuff.

When Nyambe disappeared mid season a while back he was playing ok. Several different reasons where given.

Edited August 30, 2020 by tomphil

[Miller11]

12 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

My God, that's some hindrance! Mowbray is a mutant! ?

My understanding is that last season was our first whereby Nyambe was first-choice right-back. I think Mowbray sees it that way, too. Whenever Nyambe isn't starting these days, it's because he's injured.

You only need to go back to the 14th of July, Millwall game, to see that’s not the case. 

[Miller11]

6 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

Nyambe was taken off on the hour mark the game before that with a knock. Similar to the case yesterday, whereby he was benched after an injury/niggle/knock. It's a constant theme in Nyambe's career at Rovers.

“I thought Joe Rankin-Costello warranted his place in the team and thought Elliott Bennett brings some character and personality to our team and takes the game-plan on to the pitch.  

“It was a balance of a few things, confidence levels, and the fact he’s played a lot of football, we decided to go with Elliott and Joe.”

T. Mowbray

15th July 2020

[tomphil]

27 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

My God, that's some hindrance! Mowbray is a mutant! ?

My understanding is that last season was our first whereby Nyambe was first-choice right-back. I think Mowbray sees it that way, too. Whenever Nyambe isn't starting these days, it's because he's injured.

Phil what are you watching man. 

He dropped him not long ago and said he felt Bennett would bring drive and verve to the game.

Don't be so selective with the memory.

[Stuart]

27 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

My God, that's some hindrance! Mowbray is a mutant! ?

My understanding is that last season was our first whereby Nyambe was first-choice right-back. I think Mowbray sees it that way, too. Whenever Nyambe isn't starting these days, it's because he's injured.

Maybe that’s where the expression ‘cock-eyed’ comes from.

It’s interesting though how often Mowbray seems to drop these young players. Any player who is injured really shouldn’t be on the bench.

[tomphil]

Just now, OnePhilT said:

So... Who is our first-choice right-back?

I'll refer you to the mutant willy line. 

 

[Miller11]

12 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

@Miller11 LT: "Bennett replaced Nyambe on the hour mark at the weekend. 

Nyambe had a knock last month, which ruled him out against Bristol City, and could well have played a part in that change."

Think Mowbray was just trying to talk positive about his selection. It's no secret they are quite cautious with Nyambe, and I think the pattern of Nyambe's niggles is fairly evident. Just because Elliott Bennett was picked for that game ahead of him, whereby it was likely that Ryan wasn't 100%, doesn't mean that Nyambe is not first choice. The general evidence suggests that he is.

Oh he’s definitely our first choice right back. He’s our only right back. It did take 10 games before he got a kick last year though, and he’s been inexplicably dropped on occasion since. 

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I think it’s ridiculous that you seem absolutely fixated on an unquantifiable, bollocks statistic when assessing our right back.

By your logic, Brereton contributed nothing to JRC’s goal yesterday. Despite the fact he ran the ball into a dangerous area and put the cross over, it took two players and a few defensive mishaps for the ball to end up in the net. He won’t be credited with the assist, but he was instrumental in the goal. You fail to acknowledge our strikers aren’t often in positions to get on the end of crosses. You fail to acknowledge Nyambe stays back for every single set piece... maybe because there is no simple statistic that you can trot out to suit your narrative.

Here’s a decent one from last season...

Points per game when Nyambe didn’t start: 1.25

Points per game when Nyambe did start: 1.54

I think you are preparing yourself for him leaving, in the knowledge he is in his final year and Mowbray seems to scapegoat him, so you can say

”I said all along we should get rid Nyambe he not assists enough”

Brereton played a major part in the Rankin Costello goal but lets credit Rankin Costello for being in the box and so far forward to be able to score. Would Nyambe have been there? 

I said that I hope Nyambe sign a new contract but if he doesn't then we have to consider selling him do you agree? Do you actually think his attacking side of game has improve in the last 3 years? 

I would look at Nathan Byrne from Wigan. Right back, can defend and get forward. Good all round player if we lose Nyambe

3 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Funny you should mention the 94-95 season... I’ve just had a look at the stats for that season. Have a guess how many assists Jason Wilcox was credited with?

4 (four).

I couldn’t possibly provide any better evidence to show that assist stats are utter bollocks.

But how many games did Wilcox play that season? 27 games wasn't it? 

1 hour ago, Ewood Ace said:

Chaddy you seem more worried about goals and assists from our right back than you do goals from our £7 Million striker who has 2 goals in 2 years. Nyambe is a defender his main aim is to keep the ball out, its the attacker's whose main job's are to score and create goals.

Nice diversion here Ewood. The discussion was on Nyambe not Brereton and Gallagher wasn't it? Also haven't we all posted that we needed more goals and assists from Gallagher and Brereton to death at here. Why keep repeating it?

Edited August 30, 2020 by chaddyrovers

[Ewood Ace]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Nice diversion here Ewood. The discussion was on Nyambe not Brereton and Gallagher wasn't it? Also haven't we all posted that we needed more goals and assists from Gallagher and Brereton to death at here. Why keep repeating it?

It's not a diversion I just find it very strange as to why you are so worried about our best defender not scoring goals or assisting goals and yet you are a rather vocal backer of a £7 Million striker with 2 goals in 2 years. I suspect were Nyambe to have signed a new 5 year contract by now then would be singing his praises about what a good defender he is. Bbut because he is out of contract you are laying your ground work so that you can back Mowbray and say Nyambe isn't a loss if were to leave.

[chaddyrovers]

13 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

It's not a diversion I just find it very strange as to why you are so worried about our best defender not scoring goals or assisting goals and yet you are a rather vocal backer of a £7 Million striker with 2 goals in 2 years. I suspect were Nyambe to have signed a new 5 year contract by now then would be singing his praises about what a good defender he is. Bbut because he is out of contract you are laying your ground work so that you can back Mowbray and say Nyambe isn't a loss if were to leave.

No Ewood, We have discussed Gallagher and Brereton lack of goals and assists, and thats they both need to improve to death on here. So why keep repeating the debate weekly and monthly. I haven't question Nyambe's defensive ability have I? so your comments is false claim of yours. But His attacking side of his game which is part of full back game

Whether Nyambe signs a new contract or not his attacking game isn't good enough and won't be good enough for some managers. 

 

[Miller11]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Brereton played a major part in the Rankin Costello goal but lets credit Rankin Costello for being in the box and so far forward to be able to score. Would Nyambe have been there? 

I said that I hope Nyambe sign a new contract but if he doesn't then we have to consider selling him do you agree? Do you actually think his attacking side of game has improve in the last 3 years? 

I would look at Nathan Byrne from Wigan. Right back, can defend and get forward. Good all round player if we lose Nyambe

But how many games did Wilcox play that season? 27 games wasn't it? 

Nice diversion here Ewood. The discussion was on Nyambe not Brereton and Gallagher wasn't it? Also haven't we all posted that we needed more goals and assists from Gallagher and Brereton to death at here. Why keep repeating it?

To be honest I think it’s piss poor that our fullbacks are often the most advanced players in our attacks. I think it’s lunacy to expect it regularly. But, shock horror, you’ve missed the point.

No, we shouldn’t consider selling him. He is worth more to us than we could hope to get. He is our only right back. We should not be in this situation and should’ve offered new terms ages ago, but it would appear we still haven’t got round to it. If Nyambe moves on then no doubt he will be viewed as ungrateful, disloyal and greedy by you and many others, just like Hoilett and King to name a couple. The fact of the matter is it will be the fault of the club.

Of course his attacking game his improved. All aspects of his game have improved. My eyes tell me that. I trust my judgement over your single statistic.

What on earth has the number of appearances Wilcox made got to do with anything? If anything you are just proving your own reliance on really over simplified statistics... Wilcox played in a more advanced position, for a free scoring team on their way to the title, with probably the best English centre forward of all time in his prime! By the standards you hold Nyambe to, his assist return is pitiful. I’ll presume you’ve missed the point. Again. I don’t think you’re clued up enough to be that deliberately obtuse, so I will explain it in simple terms.

Jason Wilcox was extremely effective during the 94-95 season, just ask Alan Shearer. He was involved in setting up a lot of goals. He has only been credited with 4 assists. I expect Chris Sutton has a lot of assists and I expect many of these came from him nodding a Wilcox cross down to Shearer who put the ball in the net.

Accredited assists are not an effective measure to solely base a players attacking contribution on.

[chaddyrovers]

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

Of course his attacking game his improved. All aspects of his game have improved. My eyes tell me that. I trust my judgement over your single statistic.

So if his attacking game has improve where are the goals and assists to back it up? 

His crossing is still as awful as ever. 

3 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

No, we shouldn’t consider selling him. He is worth more to us than we could hope to get.

so we keep him this season and let him leave and let a tribunal sort the price out

 

1 minute ago, Miller11 said:

What on earth has the number of appearances Wilcox made got to do with anything?

of course number of appearances matters. 

[Miller11]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

So if his attacking game has improve where are the goals and assists to back it up? 

His crossing is still as awful as ever. 

so we keep him this season and let him leave and let a tribunal sort the price out

 

of course number of appearances matters. 

You have literally cut out the rebuttals and answers to your questions to post those quotes.

[Amo]

Just now, Miller11 said:

You have literally cut out the rebuttals and answers to your questions to post those quotes.

You know chaddy's coping mechanism. There's no use trying to reason with him.

[USABlue]

11 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

Dolan doesn't seem to find that an issue, and nor does he need a tall player to cross to. His link-up play with Armstrong seems to be very good already.

That bodes well, till Mowbary replaces him with Gallagher.

[USABlue]

11 hours ago, tonygreenbank said:

Hopefully with a name you can spell correctly.

I am sure I can screw up whoever it is.  Seems I've been at it all along.  See, we have to get rid.  I feel quite stupid but thank you for pointing out my error, I never noticed.I just didn't.

Edited August 31, 2020 by USABlue

[rigger]

When is the draw for the next round?

[Blue blood]

10 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

No Ewood, We have discussed Gallagher and Brereton lack of goals and assists, and thats they both need to improve to death on here. So why keep repeating the debate weekly and monthly. I haven't question Nyambe's defensive ability have I? so your comments is false claim of yours. But His attacking side of his game which is part of full back game

Whether Nyambe signs a new contract or not his attacking game isn't good enough and won't be good enough for some managers. 

 

Again I seem a tad bemused by this done to death on strikers thing so move on, as am fairly confident you mention the Nayambe attacking issue every time he is dropped or treated shabbily by our infallible manager. 

The corner you are backing yourself into is totally daft. Wilcox only played 27 games - terrible stat which ignores how many whipped in crosses resulted in goals, even if there was a bit of a scuffle first. You totally ignore the point being made. Everyone saw, the team even said ,the plan was get it wide then cross it in, yet you try to wiggle out of the assists aren't that accurate issue by saying how few games Wilcox played. 

The reason people keep bringing up the strikers not scoring issue is because you focus on a minor part of Nayambe's role and are comparatively less critical of a major part of our strikers game. It comes across as hypocritical. 

[rigger]

1 minute ago, Blue blood said:

Again I seem a tad bemused by this done to death on strikers thing so move on, as am fairly confident you mention the Nayambe attacking issue every time he is dropped or treated shabbily by our infallible manager. 

The corner you are backing yourself into is totally daft. Wilcox only played 27 games - terrible stat which ignores how many whipped in crosses resulted in goals, even if there was a bit of a scuffle first. You totally ignore the point being made. Everyone saw, the team even said ,the plan was get it wide then cross it in, yet you try to wiggle out of the assists aren't that accurate issue by saying how few games Wilcox played. 

The reason people keep bringing up the strikers not scoring issue is because you focus on a minor part of Nayambe's role and are comparatively less critical of a major part of our strikers game. It comes across as hypocritical. 

I am bemused on the relevance to the Carabao cup

[Blue blood]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

I am bemused on the relevance to the Carabao cup

Conversation moved on to talking about one of our players - one who should have played in the game - and their merits.  It's hardly a major digression into the state of the economy or how to play chess. It's almost as if they are linked...

[rigger]

24 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Conversation moved on to talking about one of our players - one who should have played in the game - and their merits.  It's hardly a major digression into the state of the economy or how to play chess. It's almost as if they are linked...

Linked by the message board not by the topic. Tenuous at best. By the way, do you know when the next round draw is ?

Edited August 31, 2020 by rigger

[Blue blood]

25 minutes ago, rigger said:

Linked by the message board not by the topic. Tenuous at best. By the way, do you know when the next round draw is ?

No, but not sure knowing a schedule is a prerequisite for posting. 

And thinking talking about players and who should play is tenuous in a match day thread is a tad pedantic at best, obsessive at worst. 

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

No, but not sure knowing a schedule is a prerequisite for posting. 

And thinking talking about players and who should play is tenuous in a match day thread is a tad pedantic at best, obsessive at worst. 

Last word realistic.