Let's Talk Tyrhys Dolan

[tomphil]

All the knives out again i see 😠

How many times do we have to have this and then he'll hit form again at some point and ram it back down throats.

He is what he is it's just classic Tyrese we see it every season, yes he's frustrating but he can also be very good and he always plays himself into then out of a starting berth. Not good that at times Eustace is still trying to do what Mowbray often bizarrely did by playing all 4 foot 6 of him up top and aiming long balls in his direction.

Actually thought he was getting into the game yesterday and shouldn't have been hooked at that point but he was poor in general. Yes he needs to be on the bench when out of form, no i wouldn't pay him 20k a week but he's been a very good squad player for us and will continue to be.

I'd be bouncing Siggarson and his alleged 18k a week out the door first he is a waste of a wage.

[roversfan99]

Its not some sort of scapegoating. The ratio of poor to good performances is still far too heavily weighted towards the former and that balance hasnt really improved over a number of years. Despite a number of different managers he still is prone to over elaborating and still produces very little in the final third. He would only ram it down peoples throats if he became more productive not just in occasional games or spurts but over a period of time.

[tomphil]

He's a flair player which means he's inconsistent and always will be that's why he's largely used as a squad man. It's because he's demonstrated he can be good that some fans always expect more of him but he's a young championship player who probably reached his glass ceiling a year or so ago.

Works quite hard and sees a lot of the ball so comes under scrutiny all the time yet there are others more deserving of that scrutiny and criticism imo.

Although i agree when he's out of form he should be out of the starting line up now we have other options. 

[roversfan99]

I dont think that issues fall around expectations. Any attacking players who contribute as infrequently as he does and ones who lack the intelligence to develop their game, reduce their weaknesses and show signs of increased consistency will naturally frustrate.

Maybe he will have a sudden increase in productivity but over the course of his Rovers career, he has been tried wide, up front and now in attacking midfield and none of the changes have yet managed to allow him to be more consistently productive, and he still keeps trying to be over elaborate.

[Ghost7]

I don't see him being used as a "squad man". I see him starting far too many games.

[M_B]

Dolan has, on the whole been good this season. He has had 3 poor performances to date, in the last 3 away games. 

The team as a whole performed poorly in those 3 away games, but there is no doubt that Dolan has received much greater criticism than anyone else,despite being no worse than the vast majority of the team. 

There's no doubt that he divides opinion, but the amount of criticism he gets is well out of proportion. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

When we signed Matt Jansen at first he was also prone to over elaboration. Souey took him in hand and cured him of that problem, turning him into the brilliant team player we all remember. Either Souey was better at getting the message across or Matty was a better listener. Dolan needs to take a leaf out of that book and “ keep it simple “.

[Wheelton Blue]

I don't think it's in him to keep it simple.

This might sound trivial, but I think sums him up.

He played well against QPR, no question. During the second half of that game though, he had a simple 10 yard straight pass to make across the middle as we were attacking. Rather than simply moving the ball along with his instep, instead he attempted the pass with his outstep, trying to look clever. The result was that the ball ended up a yard behind where it should have been, and momentum was lost.

[arbitro]

I have said many times that what lets him down more than anything is his decision making. Quite how you coach that out (or in) to a player I don't know.

[DE.]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

I have said many times that what lets him down more than anything is his decision making. Quite how you coach that out (or in) to a player I don't know.

A good management and coaching setup can do it - or if not, move the player on and bring in a more suitable option. At a normal club, anyway. Not all players are capable, but I don't see Dolan's flaws as something so deeply ingrained that they couldn't be improved with some serious coaching. 

But then, we don't seem to have too many players in the team who have improved their game at all. Pears has always oscillated between looking reasonable and looking awful. Brittain has always been crap at defending and sometimes decent at attacking (before him, Nyambe was the opposite). Carter hasn't really improved noticeably. Hyam has actually gone backwards. Pickering continues to be a 6, occasionally 7/10 performer who occasionally has a stinker. Trav inconsistent but ultimately not really any different to the player he was 3 or 4 years ago. Dolan continues to be very inconsistent. Gallagher never improved during his time here. Hedges hasn't added anything to his game since arriving. Adam Wharton had obvious potential and should have been tearing this league apart, but we never really got the best out of him and as a result he had to go to Palace before bigger clubs realised he could fulfil his potential and started circling. It should have been obvious here, and it could have led to a bidding war which meant we got a lot more than the £18m we sold him for. As it stood, only a single PL club was seriously interested, which is ridiculous but seemingly Rovers weren't doing enough with him as a player to make his best attributes obvious. 

Not even going to get into the likes of Vale, Leonard, Buckley, etc who have gone absolutely nowhere despite being highly regarded at youth level. There will be plenty of others in that category. 

Now, you could just say we have an entire squad of players incapable of any improvements or changes to their game, but I don't consider that very likely. What often happens is that the players we have with potential (going all the way back to the likes of Josh King and Tom Cairney) get bought by other clubs and significantly improve, having never really progressed here. Brereton is perhaps the one exception I can think of in recent times, but the Chile situation arguably played a bigger part in that than Rovers did,. and he still often reverted to BB from BBD when his confidence was shot. Armstrong basically left us with the same attributes he came to us with - pace and good Championship level finishing ability. Ash Philips was stolen from us before he ever got to the first team.  

The players deserve criticism to some degree, but when I see lack of progression in the vast majority of them year after year (at least at senior level), and this mentality issue that has been around for a decade now, I have to conclude that the club's structure is a bigger problem than the players on the pitch. Some players with potential will play well enough, irrespective of coaching, to get a move elsewhere. Players with capped potential, which is inevitably what we're left with these days, need strong coaching to be effective. It's been a long time since I've seen any evidence of that. Granted, JDT did try, but he was attempting to get most of them to play at a level that was beyond them so it was unlikely to work long-term without backing from the owners to reshape the squad - which, obviously, was not forthcoming. 

[Mattyblue]

End of the day he’s a middling Championship player playing for a middling Championship club. Just like Hedges, just like Hyam, just like Travis and so on and so on.

Next season one way or another he’ll still be a middling Championship player at a middling Championship club.

Edited October 7 by Mattyblue

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

14 minutes ago, DE. said:

A good management and coaching setup can do it - or if not, move the player on and bring in a more suitable option. At a normal club, anyway. Not all players are capable, but I don't see Dolan's flaws as something so deeply ingrained that they couldn't be improved with some serious coaching. 

But then, we don't seem to have too many players in the team who have improved their game at all. Pears has always oscillated between looking reasonable and looking awful. Brittain has always been crap at defending and sometimes decent at attacking (before him, Nyambe was the opposite). Carter hasn't really improved noticeably. Hyam has actually gone backwards. Pickering continues to be a 6, occasionally 7/10 performer who occasionally has a stinker. Trav inconsistent but ultimately not really any different to the player he was 3 or 4 years ago. Dolan continues to be very inconsistent. Gallagher never improved during his time here. Hedges hasn't added anything to his game since arriving. Adam Wharton had obvious potential and should have been tearing this league apart, but we never really got the best out of him and as a result he had to go to Palace before bigger clubs realised he could fulfil his potential and started circling. It should have been obvious here, and it could have led to a bidding war which meant we got a lot more than the £18m we sold him for. As it stood, only a single PL club was seriously interested, which is ridiculous but seemingly Rovers weren't doing enough with him as a player to make his best attributes obvious. 

Not even going to get into the likes of Vale, Leonard, Buckley, etc who have gone absolutely nowhere despite being highly regarded at youth level. There will be plenty of others in that category. 

Now, you could just say we have an entire squad of players incapable of any improvements or changes to their game, but I don't consider that very likely. What often happens is that the players we have with potential (going all the way back to the likes of Josh King and Tom Cairney) get bought by other clubs and significantly improve, having never really progressed here. Brereton is perhaps the one exception I can think of in recent times, but the Chile situation arguably played a bigger part in that than Rovers did,. and he still often reverted to BB from BBD when his confidence was shot. Armstrong basically left us with the same attributes he came to us with - pace and good Championship level finishing ability. Ash Philips was stolen from us before he ever got to the first team.  

The players deserve criticism to some degree, but when I see lack of progression in the vast majority of them year after year (at least at senior level), and this mentality issue that has been around for a decade now, I have to conclude that the club's structure is a bigger problem than the players on the pitch. Some players with potential will play well enough, irrespective of coaching, to get a move elsewhere. Players with capped potential, which is inevitably what we're left with these days, need strong coaching to be effective. It's been a long time since I've seen any evidence of that. Granted, JDT did try, but he was attempting to get most of them to play at a level that was beyond them so it was unlikely to work long-term without backing from the owners to reshape the squad - which, obviously, was not forthcoming. 

I agree with all of that. The one exception to the rule might be Sammi but I think that was more down to us changing his role than any improvement in coaching.

[Forever Blue]

Dolan is a homer. He’ll play well against Swansea. 

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

End of the day he’s a middling Championship player playing for a middling Championship club. Just like Hedges, just like Hyam, just like Travis and so on and so on.

Next season one way or another he’ll still be a middling Championship player at a middling Championship club.

That's where i'm at with it i don't expect much from him on a regular basis and we see the same every season.

If he'd cost money or was on big money i'd understand him getting dug out all the time but he didn't.

He is what he is it's all about how he is managed for me but for nothing and low wages hes been a cracking little player at times. 

[roversfan99]

Hes not "dug out" unfairly or disproportionately.

There are a number of players who regularly get criticism, he is only one of a few. Him, Hedges, Pears, Hyam, Pickering.

[tomphil]

He is.

[Mattyblue]

🍐 👋🏻 

[Dreams of 1995]

Dolan just is not at this standard

His touch slows the game down. There was a 5 yard pass made to him on the edge of our own box. After his control he had to wait for the ball to come down. By that point, he was closed down. The only route out was a pass back to the defender to hoof

It is that sort of poor quality that puts the team under pressure

He needs to be moved on, really. He is a level below the Championship. I'll be surprised if somebody else picks him up

[Hasta]

Last season he tended to play either wide or right up top. When he’s wide he can do 4 step overs and knock it backwards easily and it’s doesn’t look as bad. Now he’s been pushed into the Szmodics role he’s more central, which makes it doubly frustrating when we are breaking forward and he slows everything down by over playing and not getting his head up. 

Id be putting Cantwell in there with his undoubtably better vision and better distribution. Dolan should be pushed back out wide in place of either Hedges or Weimann, and have to fight with ACD for that spot. He’s always carried a goal threat drifting into the box from there.

 

 

[Upside Down]

17 hours ago, DE. said:

A good management and coaching setup can do it - or if not, move the player on and bring in a more suitable option. At a normal club, anyway. Not all players are capable, but I don't see Dolan's flaws as something so deeply ingrained that they couldn't be improved with some serious coaching. 

But then, we don't seem to have too many players in the team who have improved their game at all. Pears has always oscillated between looking reasonable and looking awful. Brittain has always been crap at defending and sometimes decent at attacking (before him, Nyambe was the opposite). Carter hasn't really improved noticeably. Hyam has actually gone backwards. Pickering continues to be a 6, occasionally 7/10 performer who occasionally has a stinker. Trav inconsistent but ultimately not really any different to the player he was 3 or 4 years ago. Dolan continues to be very inconsistent. Gallagher never improved during his time here. Hedges hasn't added anything to his game since arriving. Adam Wharton had obvious potential and should have been tearing this league apart, but we never really got the best out of him and as a result he had to go to Palace before bigger clubs realised he could fulfil his potential and started circling. It should have been obvious here, and it could have led to a bidding war which meant we got a lot more than the £18m we sold him for. As it stood, only a single PL club was seriously interested, which is ridiculous but seemingly Rovers weren't doing enough with him as a player to make his best attributes obvious. 

Not even going to get into the likes of Vale, Leonard, Buckley, etc who have gone absolutely nowhere despite being highly regarded at youth level. There will be plenty of others in that category. 

Now, you could just say we have an entire squad of players incapable of any improvements or changes to their game, but I don't consider that very likely. What often happens is that the players we have with potential (going all the way back to the likes of Josh King and Tom Cairney) get bought by other clubs and significantly improve, having never really progressed here. Brereton is perhaps the one exception I can think of in recent times, but the Chile situation arguably played a bigger part in that than Rovers did,. and he still often reverted to BB from BBD when his confidence was shot. Armstrong basically left us with the same attributes he came to us with - pace and good Championship level finishing ability. Ash Philips was stolen from us before he ever got to the first team.  

The players deserve criticism to some degree, but when I see lack of progression in the vast majority of them year after year (at least at senior level), and this mentality issue that has been around for a decade now, I have to conclude that the club's structure is a bigger problem than the players on the pitch. Some players with potential will play well enough, irrespective of coaching, to get a move elsewhere. Players with capped potential, which is inevitably what we're left with these days, need strong coaching to be effective. It's been a long time since I've seen any evidence of that. Granted, JDT did try, but he was attempting to get most of them to play at a level that was beyond them so it was unlikely to work long-term without backing from the owners to reshape the squad - which, obviously, was not forthcoming. 

Like all problems here it starts at the top. If you're boss doesn't give a fuck then eventually you won't either.

Now that venkys can't get away with rinsing 20 million through the club every year they have no longer any interest, not that they had much to begin with apart from when we were doing well and they'd step in to put a stop to it.

[oneandycrawford]

On 07/10/2024 at 13:09, DE. said:

 

Not even going to get into the likes of Vale, Leonard, Buckley, etc who have gone absolutely nowhere despite being highly regarded at youth level. There will be plenty of others in that category. 

Tbf we are not alone in having highly regarded youth players who don't develop.

Saw this article today about youth players at Premier League clubs identified in 2019 (and links to earlier years) and how few have gone on to make it at that level. 

Next Generation 2019: 20 of the best talents at Premier League clubs | Football | The Guardian

[London blue]

Update from Jackson on Dolan's contract: there's no update.

He ain't signing. Get rid. He's flattered to deceive for too long.

[KentExile]

25 minutes ago, London blue said:

Update from Jackson on Dolan's contract: there's no update.

He ain't signing. Get rid. He's flattered to deceive for too long.

The article reads that Dolan and his agent/people have not been re-engaged by the club, rather than Dolan (and his people) are rejecting deals/being difficult negotiators

"Rudy Gestede, told the fans' forum on September 16 that 'restarting talks with Dolan was a priority'.Yet the LT understands no further contact has been made to reopen those discussions. "

The same article also highlights that no senior player has signed an extension (which would in almost all circumstances, come with a wage increase) this calendar year (although you could argue McFadzean would come into this category, albeit probably on reduced terms).  

My guess is that it is a cash flow issue (again).  We could debate whether that is a case of being unable or unwilling to commit to wage increases, but the outcome is the same either way.

Edited October 11 by KentExile

[MarkBRFC]

When was the last time we as a club got somebody tied down to a long term deal after they had entered into the final 12 months of there contract?

Edited October 11 by MarkBRFC

[bluebruce]

17 minutes ago, KentExile said:

The article reads that Dolan and his agent/people have not been re-engaged by the club, rather than Dolan (and his people) are rejecting deals/being difficult negotiators

"Rudy Gestede, told the fans' forum on September 16 that 'restarting talks with Dolan was a priority'.Yet the LT understands no further contact has been made to reopen those discussions. "

The same article also highlights that no senior player has signed an extension (which would in almost all circumstances, come with a wage increase) this calendar year (although you could argue McFadzean would come into this category, albeit probably on reduced terms).  

My guess is that it is a cash flow issue (again).  We could debate whether that is a case of being unable or unwilling to commit to wage increases, but the outcome is the same either way.

The club saying one thing and doing another? Well blow me down...