England

[Ewood Ace]

3 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

If the manager who took us to the World Cup semi-finals should not be leading us into the Euros then who should ? It's noticeable that you do not put forward an alternative.

Honestly there are an infinite amount of managers who would be better for the job than Southgate, its pointless me naming one as you will just criticise it like you do when someone suggests an alternative to Mowbray. Let's be honest he got very lucky with the draw in the world cup and a better manager at 1-0 up against Croatia would have seen the game out. Also let's not forget that in the world cup Southgate lost more games than any other England manager has every lost in a world cup tournament.

[rigger]

59 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Yes plenty. But we have different opinions which is good. 

Semi final was a success story. 

Southgate achieved much more than we did under Sven, Capello, McClaren and Hodgson. How much did we wasted on Sven and Capello? 30 million? 

we have won nothing under any of them, and don't look likely to in the near future. not much of an achievement in my eyes.

[Ewood Ace]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Semi final was a success story. 

Southgate achieved much more than we did under Sven, Capello, McClaren and Hodgson. How much did we wasted on Sven and Capello? 30 million? 

If you think beating Panama, Tunisia, Sweden and Colombia (on pens), whilst losing twice to Belgium and once to Croatia is a success story then you must have very low standards. 

2002 under Sven as much as a success story as 2018. We may have only got to the quarters but we lost a close game by one freak goal to an outstanding Brazil team, in 2018 we lost 3 games and didn't even play a team near the standard of that Brazil team.

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

Honestly there are an infinite amount of managers who would be better for the job than Southgate, its pointless me naming one as you will just criticise it like you do when someone suggests an alternative to Mowbray. Let's be honest he got very lucky with the draw in the world cup and a better manager at 1-0 up against Croatia would have seen the game out. Also let's not forget that in the world cup Southgate lost more games than any other England manager has every lost in a world cup tournament.

An "infinite" number of managers who could do better than getting to the semi finals of the World Cup - yet none are named ! 

Anything achieved by Southgate you put down to luck. Your dislike of the man is irrational and has coloured your judgement.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

An "infinite" number of managers who could do better than getting to the semi finals of the World Cup - yet none are named ! 

 Anything achieved by Southgate you put down to luck. Your dislike of the man is irrational and has coloured your judgement.

I have no dislike of Southgate, I just don't think he's a good manager. Wenger would be my personal preference for the job. As for being lucky anyone who knows anything about football would acknowledge that he got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

41 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

I have no dislike of Southgate, I just don't think he's a good manager. Wenger would be my personal preference for the job. As for being lucky anyone who knows anything about football would acknowledge that he got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup. 

Me too, jn fact I like Southgate as a bloke, he appears to be a very decent guy.  He was also a decent player back in the day. However I just don't think he's a Trophy winning manager. 

Edited October 15, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Chaddy, we lost that game, remember ?

I do remember than TS. but getting to the semi final in major competition is a success considering our poor performances in past competitions since Euro 96 under Terry Venables 

7 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

I have no dislike of Southgate, I just don't think he's a good manager. Wenger would be my personal preference for the job. As for being lucky anyone who knows anything about football would acknowledge that he got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup. 

Wenger? Would never take it. Was asked a couple of times during his Arsenal days. Yesterday man now. 

[DeeCee]

Tactics were wrong against Croatia, midfield should have been packed to stifle them. Same as the other night, game was screaming for Grealish, who did he bring on?

[philipl]

England now looking very unlikely to qualify

[RevidgeBlue]

9 hours ago, Ewood Ace said:

I have no dislike of Southgate, I just don't think he's a good manager. Wenger would be my personal preference for the job. As for being lucky anyone who knows anything about football would acknowledge that he got very lucky with the draw in the World Cup. 

Think that's a good shout on Wenger but he's probably in too cushy a job where he is now.

Southgate is just a smooth talking PR man like Woy and Sven before him but again, at least the other two despite the fact they were poor with England  can point to an overall CV with some success on it.

It's the Brian Clough syndrome agai 40 odd years on. Don't appoint the best man for the job, just appoint someone who'll say all the right things and never upset anyone

 

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, DeeCee said:

Tactics were wrong against Croatia, midfield should have been packed to stifle them. Same as the other night, game was screaming for Grealish, who did he bring on?

He brought Hendo on for Rice which is unfathomable when you are a goal down with grealish on the bench. Think theres a problem between them two. Not for me Southgate.  

 

 

[roversfan99]

I hope this jinxes a comeback but England appear at a real crossroads at the moment. Changing from 3 at the back to 4-3-3 and then for no apparent reason back to 3 again recently, the constant changing not only of the 11 but the squad shows that Southgate doesnt really know what he is doing and is just hoping that something falls into place.

The team tonight has no balance, absolutely no pace to penetrate in behind aging Belgian centre backs when Kane comes to feet, the love affair with 2 average players in Mount and Rice when we have far better players is very strange, and he is playing more inadequate centre backs than he needs too with Dier a particular liability. Trippier should also not be in the squad, never mind be starting every game.

Southgate was very lucky with the draw in the World Cup but I suppose even by only betting Tunisia, Panama, Colombia on penalties and Sweden deserved the credit of how far he had gone but he stumbled into the job to begin with and I think we could do with someone with a bit more nous.

[benhben]

Just can't get my head around this 3-4-3 which in reality with this selection is 5-4-1. The high intensity 4-3-3 we played post world cup up until the covid lockdown was some of the best football I've seen from England. Im sure there was a time last year we scored 4 or 5 a few games in a row.

Just can't understand why he's felt the need to go back to this dull Conservative formation, which doesn't even suit the players we have. Mowbray esque. 

Edited November 15, 2020 by benhben

[K-Hod]

We’ve been shocking. Whilst I don’t think we have the strongest pool of players to choose from, I think Southgate puts too much faith in players who never deliver for us. (Hi Declan Rice).

We are too negative in our set up and I’m wondering if Southgate has taken us as far as he can to be honest.

[roversfan99]

Harry Winks for Jordan Henderson is the most unnecessarily conservative and pointless sub that could have been made too.

Martin Tyler is a nauseating propaganda machine for the Nations League too, a competition that may have a bit of merit as a slight upgrade on friendlies but ultimately one that no one will overly give a shit about, and one that should have been scrapped as collateral damage amidst the excessive strain that the pandemic has put on the fixture schedule.

[joey_big_nose]

I like the nation's league as you get competitive games like today where you can measure where you are against top teams as opposed to loads of pointless friendlies which tell you nothing.

And today showed we've got a long way to go still. It really feels like we are playing this system to manage the opposition rather than play to our strengths. It's daft as we've probably got the best set of young players we've had in 20 years.

What's the point playing three at the back, 2 full backs, Henderson and Rice in the midfield? So very conservative.

[Ianrally]

Martin Tyler is nauseating about everything. He’s past it as a commentator. He actually doesn’t commentate at all, just mumbles away about anything other than the match. 

[joey_big_nose]

On 15/10/2020 at 10:39, chaddyrovers said:

He is trying out the formation as plan B and giving it a few games. Dont see the problem. After Christmas back to 4-3-3 as plan A with Plan B as 3-4-3

Reading back through the thread this caught my eye - where did you get this impression from? Quotes from Southgate or staff?

The whole 343 thing with two holding midfielders is crackers. Looking forward to going back to 433 as you suggest.

[Mashed Potatoes]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

We’ve been shocking. Whilst I don’t think we have the strongest pool of players to choose from, I think Southgate puts too much faith in players who never deliver for us. (Hi Declan Rice).

We are too negative in our set up and I’m wondering if Southgate has taken us as far as he can to be honest.

Who have you identified who will take England further than the World Cup semi final ?

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Who have you identified who will take England further than the World Cup semi final ?

You're not his agent as well are you ?

My god you need to google 'glass ceiling' and 'over achieved' .

He needs to get gone soon as !

[roversfan99]

12 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Who have you identified who will take England further than the World Cup semi final ?

It is massively flawed as I suspect you are aware to imply that solely on the basis that he got us to a World Cup Semi Final, that his job is guaranteed as a result. Should Mourinho not have been sacked when Chelsea were 15th the season after winning the title with the squad in disarray, who else would beat winning the title? Not as simple as that.

Firstly, things change in football and England do not seem to be displaying promising signs of developing and getting the best from what is a crop of players, many of whom (Kane, Grealish, Sterling, Sancho, Walker, Arnold, James, Henderson, until injury Gomez etc) are performing very well at club level week in and week out. 3 at the back and trying to pass it out only adds to the numbers of centre backs on the pitch and highlights their weaknesses. His loyalty to a poor goalkeeper adds unnecessary jeopardy. His midfield choices lead to us being very rigid and his reliance on less talented players like Rice and Mount is counter productive. One (heavily deflected) goal from 5 Nations League games is piss poor. We really struggle v the better teams.

It may also be tempting to refer back to previous failed generations as a comparison as im sure you have done with the likes of Kean and Coyle here but the benchmark should be higher than that, the likes of Capello and Hodgson underperformed too.

Southgate undoubtedly deserved massive credit for how we did at the last World Cup but with international tournaments they sometimes perhaps a bit more flexibility in regards to judgement is required because it is not as simple as a club season in which every team plays every other team twice. We only beat some very limited countries and a very favourable draw meant that although the games still warranted overcoming and as a result Southgate would leave with positive thoughts overall, there are plenty of valid doubts over whether he is the man to take us forward.

Edited November 15, 2020 by roversfan99

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, tomphil said:

You're not his agent as well are you ?

My god you need to google 'glass ceiling' and 'over achieved' .

He needs to get gone soon as !

Even those with the shortest of memories will be aware that his record is vastly superior to very many of his predecessors. It says everything that your reply utterly failed to identify a successor but was more aimed at myself.

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

It is massively flawed as I suspect you are aware to imply that solely on the basis that he got us to a World Cup Semi Final, that his job is guaranteed as a result. Should Mourinho not have been sacked when Chelsea were 15th the season after winning the title with the squad in disarray, who else would beat winning the title? Not as simple as that.

Firstly, things change in football and England do not seem to be displaying promising signs of developing and getting the best from what is a crop of players, many of whom (Kane, Grealish, Sterling, Sancho, Walker, Arnold, James, Henderson, until injury Gomez etc) are performing very well at club level week in and week out. 3 at the back and trying to pass it out only adds to the numbers of centre backs on the pitch and highlights their weaknesses. His loyalty to a poor goalkeeper adds unnecessary jeopardy. His midfield choices lead to us being very rigid and his reliance on less talented players like Rice and Mount is counter productive. One (heavily deflected) goal from 5 Nations League games is piss poor. We really struggle v the better teams.

It may also be tempting to refer back to previous failed generations as a comparison as im sure you have done with the likes of Kean and Coyle here but the benchmark should be higher than that, the likes of Capello and Hodgson underperformed too.

Southgate undoubtedly deserved massive credit for how we did at the last World Cup but with international tournaments they sometimes perhaps a bit more flexibility in regards to judgement is required because it is not as simple as a club season in which every team plays every other team twice. We only beat some very limited countries and a very favourable draw meant that although the games still warranted overcoming and as a result Southgate would leave with positive thoughts overall, there are plenty of valid doubts over whether he is the man to take us forward.

A much more reasoned answer than the other poster but still no alternative is offered and in naming Capello and Hodgson, managers with more track record than Southgate, you illustrate how difficult it is to get this "someone better" that people always hanker after.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Even those with the shortest of memories will be aware that his record is vastly superior to very many of his predecessors. It says everything that your reply utterly failed to identify a successor but was more aimed at myself.

Yes that's right nobody will come to manage England that has any decent pedigree at all.

Maybe they should contact messers HSH.

[K-Hod]

44 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

Who have you identified who will take England further than the World Cup semi final ?

That’s not my job, is it? I’m only a fan.

I’m suggesting he’s stagnated, he needs to get his act together and stop playing so conservatively. This isn’t just about this game. He can’t live off a World Cup semi final forever if we are awful now and showing few signs of improvement or evolving as a team.