England

[speeeeeeedie]

1 hour ago, den said:

I knew it would go against the grain saying what I did Sparks, but I do believe that the way Grealish plays the game slows things down too much. 

I agree with you. Grealish is a very talented player, but is he right for what England currently have? I said yesterday that it looks like Southgate's preferred plan is to use pace to beat teams. Grealish doesn't have that, but he does have a wonderful ability to keep possession. 

 

[Darrenbot]

12 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Never does it when it matters for me.  I understand he is a great premier league striker, something is missing for me with him at that higher level.....

Who was Top scorer at the 2018 world cup?

[Mashed Potatoes]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Well Southgate won't, you can put your house on that. If by some chance Mowbray got knocked down by the proverbial red No17 bus and I read that we'd appointed Southgate in his place I wouldn't be doing handstands about it. That says it all for me.

But you don't or can't say or suggest someone who would do better than the manager with more tournament success for England than anyone alive.

[LeftWinger]

2 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

Who was Top scorer at the 2018 world cup?

I seem to think it was the same guy who has the third best goals per minute ratio in Champions League history at a goal every 104 minutes. Bettered only by Messi (102 minutes) and Mario Gomez (102 minutes). Better than Van Nistelrooy (109 minutes), Lewandowski and Ronaldo (114 minutes).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/54624624

Reckon he will be alright if he starts to do it at a higher level.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

But you don't or can't say or suggest someone who would do better than the manager with more tournament success for England than anyone alive.

I don't need to. The next World Cup winning manager is out there, that's a fact. We just have to find him before anyone else does. All I know is as long as Southgate is there we'll just be treading water. 

[Sparks Rover]

4 hours ago, Darrenbot said:

Who was Top scorer at the 2018 world cup?

Who missed a sitter to get us to the final? Whos a serial never wins nowt...? 

Worst world cup for years, how did he do in the previous euros and all that?

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Who missed a sitter to get us to the final? Whos a serial never wins nowt...? 

Worst world cup for years, how did he do in the previous euros and all that?

The manager had him taking corner kicks in the previous euros. Not sure he knew how to use him - or anyone much.

[Sparks Rover]

Just now, Mashed Potatoes said:

The manager had him taking corner kicks in the previous euros. Not sure he knew how to use him - or anyone much.

Fair point.?

[simongarnerisgod]

9 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Well Southgate won't, you can put your house on that. If by some chance Mowbray got knocked down by the proverbial red No17 bus and I read that we'd appointed Southgate in his place I wouldn't be doing handstands about it. That says it all for me.

southgate is perfect for the f.a,he`s never going to say or do anything controversial and will tow the party line,the fa has always been like this,it`s why brian clough,jack charlton or lawrie mcmenemy never got the england job,all outspoken types,they suits would`nt  have been able to control them,southgate is the safe option,despite being a mediocre player and mediocre manager

[Mashed Potatoes]

21 minutes ago, simongarnerisgod said:

southgate is perfect for the f.a,he`s never going to say or do anything controversial and will tow the party line,the fa has always been like this,it`s why brian clough,jack charlton or lawrie mcmenemy never got the england job,all outspoken types,they suits would`nt  have been able to control them,southgate is the safe option,despite being a mediocre player and mediocre manager

"Mediocre" players don't get to play 57 games for England and "mediocre" managers don't take teams to World Cup semi finals.

[simongarnerisgod]

10 minutes ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

"Mediocre" players don't get to play 57 games for England and "mediocre" managers don't take teams to World Cup semi finals.

was never more than a bog standard stopper, got middlesborough relegated and spent a lot of chairman gibsons money,resurfaced as england u21 manager and got knocked out of 2015 european championships in the group stages,bizarely was appointed england manager when big sams dodgy escapades got him the boot,fortunate to get an easy group in the world cup to progress,nice fellow no doubt but will always come up short against good sides,though in fairness you could say the same about a lot of england managers,only one in my lifetime who looked likely to push on and win anything was glen hoddle,victim of the fa self righteous brigade,if hoddle had kept the job and not been forced to resign after his somewhat silly comments,we`de have won the world cup in 2002,that side was the best national team since 1966 and 1970 no doubt

[Mashed Potatoes]

Just now, simongarnerisgod said:

was never more than a bog standard stopper, got middlesborough relegated and spent a lot of chairman gibsons money,resurfaced as england u21 manager and got knocked out of 2015 european championships in the group stages,bizarely was appointed england manager when big sams dodgy escapades got him the boot,fortunate to get an easy group in the world cup to progress,nice fellow no doubt but will always come up short against good sides,though in fairness you could say the same about a lot of england managers,only one in my lifetime who looked likely to push on and win anything was glen hoddle,victim of the fa self righteous brigade,if hoddle had kept the job and not been forced to resign after his somewhat silly comments,we`de have won the world cup in 2002,that side was the best national team since 1966 and 1970 no doubt

I think you need to engage the capitals key. To me "bog standard" in relation to a professional footballer means a player who will have spent their career in the lower divisions. I don't think anybody professionally engaged in the game would consider that phrase would be appropriate to Southgate. As a manager he clearly learnt from his initial experiences. When the time comes for him to return to the club game he will not be short of good offers.

As for Hoddle a good understanding of the game but poor man management skills - England players called him "Chocolate" because he loved himself so much he wanted to eat himself. He was fired because of unpleasant remarks about disabled people - nothing to do with anyone being self righteous. As I recall Tony Blair called for him to go.

[Mattyblue]

The FA wanted the (relatively) cheap and easy option after spending fortunes on the likes of Capello and then a controversial character like Allardyce.

Southgate would also support ‘the pathway’ from the youth squads, justifies St George’s Park etc. It was obviously not because he was a top coach/manager.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

12 hours ago, Mashed Potatoes said:

"Mediocre" players don't get to play 57 games for England and "mediocre" managers don't take teams to World Cup semi finals.

When you look at the players who were knocking on the door when we actually won the World Cup Southgate wouldn't have got anywhere near the squad then. When you consider someone like Howard Kendall never got a smell of a full cap and Norman Hunter only played when Bobby Moore was unavailable it tells you how difficult it was to make the grade then. There's been some right old rubbish playing for England over the last few decades. Comparing England caps now with back then is like dog years.

[speeeeeeedie]

There has always been an anti-England sentiment on here. It's a Rovers board so I understand that the national team isn't topic number 1. I am an eternal optimist when it comes to England, which never works out as the one consistency is that they always disappoint. Which is why I don't understand the negativity.

Comparing team from different times is nigh on impossible but post WWII England teams are remarkably similar. Cases of arrogance, bad luck, and stupidity reign.

1950's  - little Englanders at the FA thought that they were the best team in the world. They weren't.

1960's  - winners in 1966. Caveats; the tournament was played at home. Pele got kicked to pieces and limped out of the tournament early.

1970's - unlucky at Mexico '70 but it signaled the end of an era. Failed to qualify for '74 and '78 despite a strong Division 1 (Leeds, Liverpool, Derby, Forest) all won in Europe).

1980's - mediocre. Odd knockout rules cost the Spain '82 team. Maradona's genius/cheating ended Mexico '86.

1990's - Up and down. Unlucky at Italia '90. Missed out on USA '94. Cut off at the knees at France '98.

2000's  - the "golden generation" had a chance and blew it. Losing to 10 man Brazil in '02, and Rooney's daft sending off in '06.

2010's - Awful start, good end.

2020's - Looks promising but need to be able to beat the big boys. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

" Private Eye " had a good cartoon for the recent World Cup in Brazil. It had the England players coming down the steps off the plane. The pilot had the cockpit window open and he's saying to the players - " Shall I leave the engines running lads ? "

They weren't far wrong either !

[Mattyblue]

3 hours ago, speeeeeeedie said:

There has always been an anti-England sentiment on here. It's a Rovers board so I understand that the national team isn't topic number 1. I am an eternal optimist when it comes to England, which never works out as the one consistency is that they always disappoint. Which is why I don't understand the negativity.

 

I wouldn’t say negativity, I’d wager most committed Rovers (and football fans generally) just aren’t particularly arsed what England get up to, though folk generally get involved when the tournament comes around.

In contrast to rugby and cricket where the England national side is the crux of the sport, the club game in English football just dwarves the international one in terms of interest and fan dedication.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Mattyblue

[philipl]

England will be in good company sitting this one out. Spain are taking Germany apart. 3-0 not a good reflection of how dominant they are.

Edited November 17, 2020 by philipl

[philipl]

First Half Spain v Germany

Possession 65-35

Shots 14-1

On Target 6-0

[Sparks Rover]

3 hours ago, philipl said:

First Half Spain v Germany

Possession 65-35

Shots 14-1

On Target 6-0

Puts in to perspective where we are.  Southgate wouldn't have a clue how to put a solid defence out against these proper teams.

[philipl]

6 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Puts in to perspective where we are.  Southgate wouldn't have a clue how to put a solid defence out against these proper teams.

Ended 6-0.

Frightening to think what Spain would do to England.

The substitute Fabian Ruiz looks one hell of a player- Germany had no answer for his ball control and surging runs.

Liverpool are reportedly looking to buy him from Napoli. If they get him, he would be a block to Elliott's route into the first team.

Edited November 18, 2020 by philipl

[Mashed Potatoes]

7 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Puts in to perspective where we are.  Southgate wouldn't have a clue how to put a solid defence out against these proper teams.

Southgate beat Spain the last time he faced them..............

[frosty]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

The substitute Fabian Ruiz looks one hell of a player- Germany had no answer for his ball control and surging runs.

Liverpool are reportedly looking to buy him from Napoli. If they get him, he would be a block to Elliott's route into the first team.

He’s more of a centre midfielder isn’t he? Think that’s where he plays for Napoli - it’s Insigne, Lozano, Mertens etc in the forward positions for them - although not sure where he played last night.

In any case, I think it’ll be at least a couple more years yet until Elliott is knocking on the door at Liverpool. After us I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes out on loan again, maybe to a Premier League team if he has a good year with us, which it looks like he will. 

[rigger]

6 minutes ago, frosty said:

He’s more of a centre midfielder isn’t he? Think that’s where he plays for Napoli - it’s Insigne, Lozano, Mertens etc in the forward positions for them - although not sure where he played last night.

In any case, I think it’ll be at least a couple more years yet until Elliott is knocking on the door at Liverpool. After us I wouldn’t be surprised if he goes out on loan again, maybe to a Premier League team if he has a good year with us, which it looks like he will. 

Lets hope we are that premier league team.

[Oldgregg86]

Spain absolutely dominated Germany in every aspect of the game. Never seen a German side defend so poorly. Spain also had a legitimate morata goal chalked off for offside and they missed a handful of very good opportunities you would back them to score. Germany were really lucky it wasnt double figures