England

[Mattyblue]

Yet the GG didn’t ever get to a semi final like Mr Blazer, so perhaps these players do have something, and I don’t think it’s a worse squad than 2018?

To be honest, I’m probably out of my depth here as outside tournaments I barely give the national team a second glance. Club over country man (well I’m getting close to being neither these days).

My helicopter view is decent set of players when compared to the 2010s, a better manager could get more of a tune out of them.

I’ll probably leave the thread to the likes of rovernout who seem far more into the weeds than me!

Edited June 8, 2021 by Mattyblue

[jim mk2]

6 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Exactly, they won bugger all, and yet they were far better than this shower. Then you add in the manager factor, Venables and Hoddle were both good coaches. Venables was exceptional. 

Who would be in that 'solid' defence? And there isn't an ounce of creativity in that midfield. 

As usual when it comes to England  average players are being vastly overrated. 

 

Grealish is exceptional, an outstanding talent. But the fact Southgate doesn’t always start him says it all. 

[roverandout]

25 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

We have some good attacking players but this team isn't a patch on previous England teams of the last 30 years. The defence and CM are rank average. 

Defence is pretty decent.  I wouldn’t call rice philips Henderson Bellingham rank average.  All pretty good or outstanding young players 

Edited June 8, 2021 by roverandout

[jim mk2]

52 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Defence is pretty decent.  I wouldn’t call rice philips Henderson Bellingham rank average.  All pretty good or outstanding young players 

In international terms Rice and Henderson are very average, Philips wouldn’t be in a top country’s squad and Bellingham has potential but that’s all. And the defence has obvious weaknesses

Edited June 8, 2021 by jim mk2

[joey_big_nose]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

We have some good attacking players but this team isn't a patch on previous England teams of the last 30 years. The defence and CM are rank average. 

Id say it's a better team than 2014- 2018, probs on a par with 2008-2012, worse that 1996-2006. It's very weird that probably the worst squad we've had in decades, 2018, made it to the semis!

Id say par for this team would be quarter finals. There's two teams (Belgium and France) who are clearly a lot better than us, and four or so teams we are on a level with (Italy, Spain, Germany, Portugal).

With a fair wind we could make semis. Wouldn't be shocked if we went out earlier. That's what makes football so exciting.

It's a shame that it all comes down really poor centre backs. Never been worse set of options for England in my memory. Absolutely shocking.

Personally in centre mid I think Rice, Bellingham, Mount is a really strong group.

[Dreams of 1995]

Our problem lies in the route we have to take. We draw either Portugal, Germany or France in the first knockout round. If you want to win you have to beat the best.

I think this team is good. I would start Ben White over Tyrone Mings personally but that won't happen. Mings is a pretty bad footballer in my eyes but has done well off the field. Out of the Villa back line he has easily been the worst this season yet is the only one included in the England squad. Go figure.

To make up for our defensive weakness I have decided I would play 5 at the back. Problem being Southgate has tried to shoe-horn players in to a 4-2-3-1 for a while now, meaning we have no experience playing a formation which served us well last tournament.

For me:

                    Henderson

          James Stones White

Trippier                              Shaw

                Rice Bellingham

          Grealish Kane Rashford 

 

Switch Grealish for Foden, Rashford for Sancho / Sterling and you have some real impact subs.

Henderson would play over Bellingham if fit.

Walker is James' back up. Maguire when fit comes in for Ben White. 

And I know that Southgate will pick Pickford but personally Dean Henderson is a better goalie and would play for me every time. 

I personally think that squad above could beat France and really that is the team we need to beat. 

[Kie_BRFC]

I have a weird feeling that Southgate is going to 'trust' his old guard a bit (Rashford and Sterling) and start them over Foden and Grealish. Think that would be a big mistake personally. 

Very excited to watch though, just hoping our attacking players turn up cause that back line is very shaky, and of course that we don't play too negative

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Defence is pretty decent.  I wouldn’t call rice philips Henderson Bellingham rank average.  All pretty good or outstanding young players 

Pretty good isn't going to win you a tournament. Bellingham is/will be quality, watching the others is like watching the Smallwood/Bennett 'pivot'...but without the flair😉

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

12 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Id say it's a better team than 2014- 2018, probs on a par with 2008-2012, worse that 1996-2006. It's very weird that probably the worst squad we've had in decades, 2018, made it to the semis!

I think that was down to who we played to get there. As soon as we played a half decent team we were out. 

[jim mk2]

39 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I think that was down to who we played to get there. As soon as we played a half decent team we were out. 

 Most of the big nations out, a kind semi-final against one of the "minnows" and we still blew it. It's pathetic and this tournament won't be different. Who is going to be 2020's Iceland? 

[DeeCee]

29 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

 Most of the big nations out, a kind semi-final against one of the "minnows" and we still blew it. It's pathetic and this tournament won't be different. Who is going to be 2020's Iceland? 

Hope it's not the Jocks 😪

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Pretty good isn't going to win you a tournament. Bellingham is/will be quality, watching the others is like watching the Smallwood/Bennett 'pivot'...but without the flair😉

Rice has been superb this season and has improved significant for England.  I would say he's very good. Henderson is Henderson.  A born leader. Phillips has done ok. Hes been a huge positive for Leeds. His passing is superb. I dont think Italys midfield for example is anything to write home about.  Jorginho and veratti. Neither are that special.  Portugal midfield isn't anything outstanding.  Germany midfield is alot better than ours . So is france's.  Dutch midfield is pretty good. Spanish midfield pretty good. My point is aside from France.  No team stands out in midfield.  That gives us some hope 

[K-Hod]

1 minute ago, roverandout said:

Rice has been superb this season and has improved significant for England.  I would say he's very good. Henderson is Henderson.  A born leader. Phillips has done ok. Hes been a huge positive for Leeds. His passing is superb. I dont think Italys midfield for example is anything to write home about.  Jorginho and veratti. Neither are that special.  Portugal midfield isn't anything outstanding.  Germany midfield is alot better than ours . So is france's.  Dutch midfield is pretty good. Spanish midfield pretty good. My point is aside from France.  No team stands out in midfield.  That gives us some hope 

Veratti not that special? 👀 

[frosty]

Verratti is exceptional, just injury prone. Jorginho isn't as good as Verratti but can still keep the ball all day long and has just won the CL. Any Serie A followers will know that Barella and Locatelli are really good too, Barella in particular. 

Edited June 8, 2021 by frosty

[roversfan99]

Jorginho is a good player, and for me better than Rice. If we was to face Italy, I suspect that as in the past, we would struggle to get much of the ball and they look like a dark horse to me (if they arent too big to be called that!) with some very technical players. I don't think that we have a central midfield that can control games, our key players are all ahead of that.

 

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, roverandout said:

Rice has been superb this season and has improved significant for England.  I would say he's very good. Henderson is Henderson.  A born leader. Phillips has done ok. Hes been a huge positive for Leeds. His passing is superb. I dont think Italys midfield for example is anything to write home about.  Jorginho and veratti. Neither are that special.  Portugal midfield isn't anything outstanding.  Germany midfield is alot better than ours . So is france's.  Dutch midfield is pretty good. Spanish midfield pretty good. My point is aside from France.  No team stands out in midfield.  That gives us some hope 

The point is, the likes of Portugal and Germany know how to play tournament football, they know how to scrape through  even when they're not at their best. In short, they know how to win when it matters - in tournaments

[speeeeeeedie]

The majority on here have always been ready and eager to slate England. It didn't change after the surprise of 2018 and it probably never will. 

Southgate is not Arrigo Saachi but I view him as the right man for the job at the moment. 

7 of the squad played in the champs league final, 3 others in the Europa league final.

Up front is one of Europe's top strikers. Midfield contains a champs league winning captain, and there are so many riches at right back it seems likely that a La Liga winning one won't play.

England aren't Brazil 1970 but there should be optimism.

All teams have a weakness somewhere.

This Euro's is anybody's. 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The majority on here have always been ready and eager to slate England. It didn't change after the surprise of 2018 and it probably never will. 

Southgate is not Arrigo Saachi but I view him as the right man for the job at the moment. 

7 of the squad played in the champs league final, 3 others in the Europa league final.

Up front is one of Europe's top strikers. Midfield contains a champs league winning captain, and there are so many riches at right back it seems likely that a La Liga winning one won't play.

England aren't Brazil 1970 but there should be optimism.

All teams have a weakness somewhere.

This Euro's is anybody's. 

I think there is plenty of fawning over the attacking talent that we have, its competitive with all teams really in the competition and no one is doubting that. But there are obvious cracks beyond that and questions over the manager which are very valid.

Its not about being positive/negative/ready and eager to slate them, although ultimately repeated past failures naturally do create a tinge of fear and wariness.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Jorginho is a good player, and for me better than Rice. If we was to face Italy, I suspect that as in the past, we would struggle to get much of the ball and they look like a dark horse to me (if they arent too big to be called that!) with some very technical players. I don't think that we have a central midfield that can control games, our key players are all ahead of that.

 

Italy have exciting attackers too; Insighne, Immoblie and Chiesa would terrorise most defences. I think people are writing Italy off a bit, which will probably suit them. I could imagine an England Italy game being one where they would have enough nous to get through with a win. 

The teams in it I would fancy to beat England are; France, Germany and Italy. I'd say ye could get past Belgium or Spain. I would probably fancy ye more if Big Sam was manager 

Gotta beat the Scots first though! Should be some game.  

[Sparks Rover]

21 minutes ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The majority on here have always been ready and eager to slate England.

💰

[jim mk2]

1 hour ago, speeeeeeedie said:

The majority on here have always been ready and eager to slate England

One tournament final in our history. And we're supposed to be one of the world's leading football nations. Compare England's record to Germany, Italy, Spain, and (unbelievably to older fans) France

England deserve to be slated

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

3 hours ago, roverandout said:

Rice has been superb this season and has improved significant for England.  I would say he's very good. Henderson is Henderson.  A born leader. Phillips has done ok. Hes been a huge positive for Leeds. His passing is superb. I dont think Italys midfield for example is anything to write home about.  Jorginho and veratti. Neither are that special.  Portugal midfield isn't anything outstanding.  Germany midfield is alot better than ours . So is france's.  Dutch midfield is pretty good. Spanish midfield pretty good. My point is aside from France.  No team stands out in midfield.  That gives us some hope 

Scotland's midfield is McTominay and McGinn. Not sure there's a world of difference between them and Hendo and Rice. 

[roverandout]

5 hours ago, frosty said:

Verratti is exceptional, just injury prone. Jorginho isn't as good as Verratti but can still keep the ball all day long and has just won the CL. Any Serie A followers will know that Barella and Locatelli are really good too, Barella in particular. 

Hes nowhere near exceptional.  I've watched him many times and he does nothing special.  Just passes sideways and backwards.  

[roverandout]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Italy have exciting attackers too; Insighne, Immoblie and Chiesa would terrorise most defences. I think people are writing Italy off a bit, which will probably suit them. I could imagine an England Italy game being one where they would have enough nous to get through with a win. 

The teams in it I would fancy to beat England are; France, Germany and Italy. I'd say ye could get past Belgium or Spain. I would probably fancy ye more if Big Sam was manager 

Gotta beat the Scots first though! Should be some game.  

Germany and Italy have a winning mentality.  Not always the best teams but they know how to win. If England had that along with the talent we would have won more than 1 world cup 

[chaddyrovers]

On 07/06/2021 at 13:01, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I wouldn’t have Henderson and Rice in the same team. I’d have Trippier in instead of James, I like James a lot but I think Trippier is a better right back.

James for me is our best right back currently. 

Against a good solid Croatia team I would play both Rice and Henderson. Then see how Henderson is after that game given he has been injured for a while before just returning