Watford v Rovers Wed 21st Oct 7.45pm

[booth]

16 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Why are people genuinely rating that performance? 

I personally thought it was absolutely horrific.

Devoid of ideas, whats all this passing round the back for 90 minutes? 

Holtby and Elliott only ones with any urgency.

Evans absolutely useless.

On another note, without Rothwell and some mobility this 3 at the back does not work.

We watched the same match!

Most definitely not a WOW match for me.

[bazza]

1 minute ago, Mercer said:

According to Mowbray and LT, Ayala's got a groin issue.  That's two weeks minimum in my book.

That gives us chance to have the Irish partnership back, Lenihan and Williams. Put JRC at RB and Douglas at LB and we may just have the makings of a good defence.

[booth]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

According to Mowbray and LT, Ayala's got a groin issue.  That's two weeks minimum in my book.

Did he explain why he played Bell, Johnson and Evans again after their godawful performance at the weekend?

[AllRoverAsia]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

According to Mowbray and LT, Ayala's got a groin issue.  That's two weeks minimum in my book.

It will be a theme with Ayala all season and we knew that he was a sicknote when we signed him and should have got another CB and not multiple Keepers.

5-4 to Watford would have been a fair score today.

[pjt]

Playing Evans, Holtby and Johnson (in the pivot position) doesn't work for me, especially when Evans is seemingly doing a modern fay impression of Batty.  I will pass it, but only sideways or back.  Might be a bit different with Trybull as the pivot, Dack/Rothwell/Holtby as the mids playing off the pivot, Williams at left C/B and Douglas at left back. Let the quick forward line we have use their pace, rather than battling for punts forward in the air!

 

[DaveyB]

31 minutes ago, superniko said:

Did he also put the ball through for the yellow card that could/should have been red? I think it was, and it was also a lovely weighted pass. 
Both were from more central areas though, not convinced he’s an out and out wide man (first time I’ve watched him mind you). 

That one was Brereton - the player that I keep reading on here offers no goal threat whatsoever 

22 minutes ago, Tom Stinny said:

Give the manager until end of November. If he's dropping bollocks get rid as this is shit or bust season. About 8 or more can go for free in the summer which means there's little chance next year.

It’s not the manager out there missing penalties, or blazing over from 10 yards out, or fluffing 1on1’s, or scoring ridiculous own goals. 
You could argue that the chances we created showed he set the team up right - he doesn’t tell the players to miss them on purpose you know. 

20 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Why are people genuinely rating that performance? 

I personally thought it was absolutely horrific.

Devoid of ideas, whats all this passing round the back for 90 minutes? 

Holtby and Elliott only ones with any urgency.

Evans absolutely useless.

On another note, without Rothwell and some mobility this 3 at the back does not work.

Saturday’s performance was poor, devoid of ideas etc. Tonight we had enough good chances to have won 3 games - if you can’t see that, I don’t know what game you’re watching. 
But then, since we played 4-3-3, and definitely not 3 at the back, maybe you weren’t actually watching the game at all

[Doogs]

Tony has had 3 years to sort our defence out...Anyone think he has?

[RoversClitheroe]

2 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

That one was Brereton - the player that I keep reading on here offers no goal threat whatsoever 

It’s not the manager out there missing penalties, or blazing over from 10 yards out, or fluffing 1on1’s, or scoring ridiculous own goals. 
You could argue that the chances we created showed he set the team up right - he doesn’t tell the players to miss them on purpose you know. 

Saturday’s performance was poor, devoid of ideas etc. Tonight we had enough good chances to have won 3 games - if you can’t see that, I don’t know what game you’re watching. 
But then, since we played 4-3-3, and definitely not 3 at the back, maybe you weren’t actually watching the game at all

3 in midfield is obviously what I meant.

We must have watched different games, all I watched was Evans and Johnson doing nothing.

Holtby creating and Lenihan and Ayala passing it between themselves and Kaminski.

[booth]

Just now, DaveyB said:

It’s not the manager out there missing penalties, or blazing over from 10 yards out, or fluffing 1on1’s, or scoring ridiculous own goals. 
You could argue that the chances we created showed he set the team up right - he doesn’t tell the players to miss them on purpose you know.

The manager picked Bell and Evans after watching them struggle through a game only a few days ago. Bell in particular was terrible tonight. So many people called it pre-match. Shame the manager didn't.

[Mercer]

3 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

 

It’s not the manager out there missing penalties, or blazing over from 10 yards out, or fluffing 1on1’s, or scoring ridiculous own goals. 
You could argue that the chances we created showed he set the team up right - he doesn’t tell the players to miss them on purpose you know. 

 

The good managers sign and select players who make minimal mistakes and optimise opportunities.

Mowbray signs them, sells them, selects them, motivates them and organises them and therefore the buck well and truly stops with him.

[Ewood Ace]

8 minutes ago, DaveyB said:

You could argue that the chances we created showed he set the team up right - he doesn’t tell the players to miss them on purpose you know. 

Having seen how we defended I don't think anyone could argue that we were set up right.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

5 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The good managers sign and select players who make minimal mistakes and optimise opportunities.

Mowbray signs them, sells them, selects them, motivates them and organises them and therefore the buck well and truly stops with him.

If it doesn't what are we paying him for ?  I get the impression at Rovers there is no " buck ", we exist in a responsibility vacuum. The manager can make as many mistakes as he likes and we all know nothing will happen. Same with the players, certain players can phone in performances on a weekly basis and nothing happens.

Edited October 21, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 minutes ago, Mercer said:

The good managers sign and select players who make minimal mistakes and optimise opportunities.

Mowbray signs them, sells them, selects them, motivates them and organises them and therefore the buck well and truly stops with him.

As it did when Kenny lost six on the bounce, not one of which we played remotely well in.

Shit happens in football, even promoted teams fail to win 1/3-1/2 of their games. Arma missed a penalty, Lenihan scored a pointless own goal and failed to score a simple header - I’m sure everyone would have welcomed a team sheet without those two.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, Cherry Blue said:

17 year old Elliott stars in his first game .

Fake news. He was and played like a 17 year old. Dolan too looked weak.  I'm worried about us relying on these 2...

Lenihan is a neanderthal of a footballer, no touch, no finesse...

The carthorse was a carthorse until he went lame again

Defence is fucked, teams like watford can waltz through.  Mowbray should go for this reason.

Really enjoyed watching Holtby, i take back any criticism and hope he stays fit.

Totally forgot Evans was on the pitch until he got subbed, i was open mouthed how he was so anonymous 

In the end, Mowbray makes the choices who he buys and how he spends his budget. Yet again we need to score 4 to win. 14th place is poor.

Mowbray out!

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by Sparks Rover

[Mercer]

1 minute ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

As it did when Kenny lost six on the bounce, not one of which we played remotely well in.

Shit happens in football, even promoted teams fail to win 1/3-1/2 of their games. Arma missed a penalty, Lenihan scored a pointless own goal and failed to score a simple header - I’m sure everyone would have welcomed a team sheet without those two.

Kenny's record speaks for itself.

Souey's record speaks for itself.

Big Sam's record speaks for itself.

Mowbray, IMO, shouldn't be mentioned in the same breath as those three.

[RevidgeBlue]

Not getting why anyone thought that was a terrific performance or we dominated play at all.

Yes, you could argue we were a bit unlucky to go in at HT 2-1 down but I thought we were really disappointing second half, especially after going 3-1 down and only a really good save from Kaminsky and Watford making a hash of a simple chance prevented a 5-1 defeat. Even if Armstrong had scored the soft penalty we were gifted we'd still have been 2-3 down!

Holtby had a good game, Brereton looked a bit more like the player he did in the first few games and I thought both full backs played quite well. Elliot had a promising first half before fading out of the game completely in the second.

Against that our new keeper cost us a goal with an appalling bit of keeping, both centre halves were poor and our big money acquisition in that position has only lasted two and a half games. Evans is an absolute embarrassment to professional football yet the manager keeps picking him (which in general is actually our biggest problem). Armstrong was atrocious, not for the first time this season, and playing with Evans makes Johnson look a poor player.

As one or  two other posters have said, this squad just don't have a winning mentality and it probably stems from the manager downwards. When Dolan came on he was drawing three Watford players to him so if the rest of the team were that bothered about getting back in the game they'd have been making themselves available to Dolan and then quickly switching play to take advantage of the space created. Instead we couldn't be bothered and left him to try and win a throw.

I thought overall it was dire. If that's a good night I'd hate to see a bad one.

[JHRover]

My view of the game was it was a typical Rovers-Mowbray effort. Having experienced this sort of thing now for over 2 years at this level it is tiring and predictable. I had absolutely no belief or expectation we would get anything out of the game from the moment we went 1-0 down. At 2-0 it was game over and most of us knew it, deep down. 

The shed load of possession and nice play after that was in part afforded to us by Watford who had probably watched similar efforts from us v Cardiff and Forest and knew they could let us do it with little end product. 

All the possession and pressure and yet other than the penalty save and shot from outside the area Foster didn't have much to worry about in the second half.

Hand on heart time - if we had made it back to 2-2 or 3-3 does anyone genuinely believe we'd have come away with a point or all 3? I don't. I reckon it is more likely they'd have applied some pressure and we'd have crumbled at the first sign of it - see Bournemouth away when we contrived to lose despite twice doing the hard part and fighting back.

If your idea of enjoyment is watching us play pretty football, plenty of possession, passes, being easy on the eye, a few talented lads having a right good go then fine, enjoy away. We will get loads of plaudits in the press and from rival clubs because it goes down well with the purists who like to tune in and watch sides 'have a go'. We are also a team full of nice men. A nice bloke in the dugout who won't upset anyone, a team in his image of nice boys who all get on together and do things the "right way". Won't get promoted that way though. Ever.

My idea of enjoyment is watching us get points on the board whatever way necessary, being a well drilled hard to break down and beat unit, and show some semblance of a strategy and some adaptability in our approach to deal with the opposition - just a shame that we seem no nearer to such an approach.

I'd have enjoyed tonight 100x more if we had turned up, put 10 men behind the ball and ground out a 0-0 or 0-1 win playing with no ambition other than to ensure we didn't concede.

That might sound crazy to some but crazy to me is turning up at a side with Watford's quality and defensive record and thinking we are going to outscore them. They've had issues scoring goals - so start from there, build from a clean sheet and frustrating them. Instead we let them in with their first venture forward with acres of room to run into, followed by defensive clangers for their 2nd and 3rd. 

Mowbray thinks he is above all that sort of thing though so it won't change. So instead we will lurch from one extreme to the other with no consistency.

I'm tired of the ludicrous suggestion that we only conceded 3 times due to individual errors. The better teams don't make errors like that. They are coached out of it.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 21, 2020 by JHRover

[RoversClitheroe]

11 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Fake news. He was and played like a 17 year old. Dolan too looked weak.  I'm worried about us relying on these 2...

Lenihan is a neanderthal of a footballer, no touch, no finesse...

The carthorse was a carthorse until he went lame again

Defence is fucked, teams like watford can waltz through.  Mowbray should go for this reason.

Really enjoyed watching Holtby, i take back any criticism and hope he stays fit.

Totally forgot Evans was on the pitch until he got subbed, i was open mouthed how he was so anonymous 

In the end, Mowbray makes the choices who he buys and how he spends his budget. Yet again we need to score 4 to win. 14th place is poor.

Mowbray out!

 

Agreed.

[bluebruce]

1 hour ago, Paul Mani said:

In Elliott, Rothwell, Holtby and Dack we’ll have a better chance of beating teams who defend deep against us. There will be a few more after teams watch that tonight! 

Yep. Because it's a really goddamned easy way to beat us.

[Crimpshrine]

26 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Totally forgot Evans was on the pitch until he got subbed, i was open mouthed how he was so anonymous

I listened on the radio and Evans was mentioned twice. Once in the first half and once when he was subbed.

As many have mentioned, we may play some 'nice' football now and again but we just don't have the winning mentallity. We have a soft centre.

We have beaten Wycombe and Derby who have accumulated 3 points between the pair of them this season. all the other games have been a big disappointment.

 

[USA Rover]

Bell and Evans need to sit this weekend and for the season.  The lineup should be:

                       Kaminski

Nyambi     Lenihan/Willaims   Ayala    Douglas     

           Holtby      Trybull      Rothwell

Dolan/Elliott      Armstrong           Elliott/Brereton     

Work Dack in once he's ready.  I can't get over how bad Evans is.  He offers nothing going forward.  

[Fraserkirky]

Positives:

Cracking strike from Ben, fully deserved.

Trybull twice the player of Evans, just shot up the depth chart. A midfield of Rothwell Trybull and Holtby will be the business.

Douglas will be in for Saturday

[Aqualung]

Apart from Evans I'm not one for slagging off any Rovers player. Neither am I one for commenting on match day threads but is it just me who thinks somethings not right with Armstrong? 

I've seen previous posters mention his body language and having seen most games since the Fleetwood friendly I tend to agree that somethings not right with him. 

He just looks totally pissed off most of the time. 

Wonder what's up? 

[Fraserkirky]

2 minutes ago, Aqualung said:

Apart from Evans I'm not one for slagging off any Rovers player. Neither am I one for commenting on match day threads but is it just me who thinks somethings not right with Armstrong? 

I've seen previous posters mention his body language and having seen most games since the Fleetwood friendly I tend to agree that somethings not right with him. 

He just looks totally pissed off most of the time. 

Wonder what's up? 

Always been a sulky, moody git.

To be honest it’s tiresome.

[Silas]

Counts for sod all but our opponents were impressed by us:

Blackburn certainly the best team we've played this season ..

 I thought Blackburn were good and deserved a draw.

Blackburn will definitely be in the playoff picture come the end of the season ..

I'd be surprised if Blackburn aren't among the playoff mix come the end of the season..

Played off the park. How the **** did we win that game ?

I was impressed with the ball retention and passing of Blackburn.

However, was very impressed with how comfortable Blackburn looked in possession. Armstrong was a menace all night and Holtby was very good for them.

I do really hope that Blackburn are around the playoffs though a very exciting team to watch.

Thought Blackburn were the better team in gameplay

 

For the record there's plenty negative comments on there too - (mainly about how, despite the posession, we're fairly toothless up front, and how weak and vulnerable our defence is) - but I needed cheering up so went with glass half full instead.