Watford v Rovers Wed 21st Oct 7.45pm

[ben_the_beast]

No need to be changing formations. I think with the signings we've made and the players in our squad 433 is absolutely the way to go. Yesterday was yesterday. Forest couldn't have wished to face us at a better time and at the end of the day it took a deflected jammy as anything effort in the 90th minute to beat us and prevent our fourth clean sheet in a row. Had that luck fallen our way it would be a very different mood on here.

I am hoping that with recent signings we see Evans going the same way as Smallwood. We could have coped without Rothwell or Holtby. But them both being out really damaged us from an attacking sense. Hopefully Holtby is back with us as we desperately need his quality on the ball. I imagine Rothwell will still be isolating which is painfully unlucky for both him and us. Stay solid. Watford will attack us. So keep it tight and hope to do to them what Forest did to us. 

[davulsukur]

24 minutes ago, rigger said:

But yet again he didn't produce much. I want more than, did little wrong.

Agreed. Plus, with the formation we are playing our full backs absolutely have to contribute in attack. 

[Miller11]

                 Kaminski

Nyambe  Ayala  Lenihan  Bell

   Trybull  Johnson  Holtby
    JRC  Armstrong  Elliott
 

Pears, Douglas, Wharton, Evans, Buckley, Dolan, Gallagher

[Guest]

Cardiff showing yet again right now against PNE that playing with a solid defensive shape and hitting on the counter is the way to win games of football in the Championship.

 

[roversfan99]

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

Elliott, Douglas and Trybull aren’t starting this game. It’s dreamland. We know Mowbray, we’ve heard the interviews. We need to be realistic in terms of our expectations for what the Starting XI will be.

The side I picked was not the one that I expect Mowbray to pick, and I havent seen any interviews. It is the one that I would pick.

You mention continuity but the last couple of performances have been dire, and changing a few might provoke that to change.

I have always felt that beyond the goalscoring of Armstrong and when fit Dack, I am not convinced by the supporting cast, but we definitely need to change things up there. I wouldnt ideally want Gallagher to start games (especially as it leaves no strikers on the bench) but I see little alternative.

He seemingly has more in the forlorn hope that Brereton will start contributing, so maybe he will give him another game, for me he has to be dropped.

Likewise with Dolan, I was criticised for suggesting that we were getting excited prematurely after a couple of games, he is so raw and has been totally ineffective, and needs to learn to only do tricks in the right area. He hasnt played a senior game before this season, taking him out for now and 

If I had to guess what Mowbray will do, it will be Armstrong central, Gallagher wide, and one other from Dolan, Brereton and if fit, Rankin Costello.

Douglas is obviously better than Bell, who was typically frustrating yesterday, technically sloppy and in a home game that demanded him to go forward, he was totally ineffective in attacking areas, I dont remember one accurate cross from either full back. Mowbray thinks that he has been "excellent" which I hope is purely a case of man management but Douglas with Nyambe, Lenihan and Ayala is our best defence and Bell hasnt been particularly good individually, so surely if fitness permits going to our best defence if anything is good for continuity?

In midfield, if I was to predict what Mowbray will do, Johnson will be in front of the back 4 which exposes his weaknesses. I would play Trybull there if fitness provides, if not we probably have little choice but to put Evans there, in a role that doesnt require him to be creative. Johnson and ideally Holtby can play in front of him and if the latter is still on paternity leave, we really do have a problem as I am unsure who else we can play there.

 

[roversfan99]

1 minute ago, JoeH said:

Cardiff showing yet again right now against PNE that playing with a solid defensive shape and hitting on the counter is the way to win games of football in the Championship.

 

There are many ways to skin a cat, Cardiff didnt manage to do that here and we will need to find a way to be able to break teams down if we have serious aspirations of a top 6 finish, no team can solely rely on counter attacking.

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

There are many ways to skin a cat, Cardiff didnt manage to do that here and we will need to find a way to be able to break teams down if we have serious aspirations of a top 6 finish, no team can solely rely on counter attacking.

Draw last week, potential win, but at least a draw today. Both are tough away games. We’ll see how Rovers get on away from home. But right now I fear we’re going to become the side that has all the fancy flicks and no results.

I’m growing frustrated with the new 4-3-3 system, I don’t think it suits Dack, it doesn’t play well if the press isn’t at 95% and above either.

I’d like to see a tactical response to a lack of players due to injury, rather than fielding a mismatch midfield three and complaining about it after-the-fact.

I’m usually in the positive post-match camp and I am quite vocally supportive of Tony Mowbray and the club, but I was annoyed that from 30 mins into the Forest game I knew exactly what was going to happen - and then it did.

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Draw last week, potential win, but at least a draw today. Both are tough away games. We’ll see how Rovers get on away from home. But right now I fear we’re going to become the side that has all the fancy flicks and no results.

I’m growing frustrated with the new 4-3-3 system, I don’t think it suits Dack, it doesn’t play well if the press isn’t at 95% and above either.

I’d like to see a tactical response to a lack of players due to injury, rather than fielding a mismatch midfield three and complaining about it after-the-fact.

I’m usually in the positive post-match camp and I am quite vocally supportive of Tony Mowbray and the club, but I was annoyed that from 30 mins into the Forest game I knew exactly what was going to happen - and then it did.

I dont see the need for "positive" and "negative" camps but I certainly share some of your tactical doubts and misgivings. I think that the perception of our start is perhaps skewed by the manner of the 2 wins but 7 points from 5 is an average start and puts pressure on at least avoiding defeat on Wednesday night.

Our home form in terms of avoiding defeats is usually good but there are always far too many draws because I am not convinced that we have the craft or imagination in the team or enough quality attacking options to break teams down. I share your scepticism towards the system when Dack goes back, anyone who doesnt think that Dack walks into this team is in denial and ultimately the best system is the one that gets the best from him and Armstrong. Does 4-3-3 do that? Possibly not.

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly.

We have so many attacking players in which we need "breakthrough seasons" in that the players have attributes to do certain things but have never produced with any regularity. Mowbray bemoaned the absence of Rothwell yesterday but he was totally ineffective against Cardiff in a similar game and has been all promise and no end product throughout his time here. I keep hearing that this will be Brereton's breakthrough season but there is just nothing at the end of his game, his off the ball movement is really poor too, the amount of times that for example the full back or a midfielder will have the ball and rather than having any intention of making a clever run or getting into the box, he just drops deep and asks for the ball 5 yards away, often in close attention of a defender. Holtby undoubtedly has more talent than those 2 players but even he has yet to really produce regularly in a Rovers shirt. Rankin Costello was another missing yesterday, has he done anything in the first team so far to suggest that he would have made a difference yesterday? Dolan even in his good games looks very raw, often trying tricks to our detriment and ultimately he has a lot of development in front of him, and Chapman looks a busted flush. There is obviously the ongoing frustrations with Gallagher and we have a lot of reliance now on a 17 year old kid on loan who is highly rated and exciting (the likes of Brereton, Rankin Costello, Dolan etc wouldnt even be still at Liverpool never mind on the fringes of the first team squad) and hopefully gives us something new but is not of the same proven record as other clubs signing the likes of Harry Wilson and Anthony Knockaert on deadline day.

Mowbray also makes perplexing tactical decisions which do not help us trying to win games. This Gallagher on the wing shite is really infuriating and yesterday to have Armstrong as a lone striker, Chapman as a number 10 and Gallagher on the right was downright bizarre. Having Johnson who is a serious goal threat but a liability in front of his defence on the ball and Evans further forward with an onus to get forward was totally illogical too.

 

[Waggy76]

41 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I dont see the need for "positive" and "negative" camps but I certainly share some of your tactical doubts and misgivings. I think that the perception of our start is perhaps skewed by the manner of the 2 wins but 7 points from 5 is an average start and puts pressure on at least avoiding defeat on Wednesday night.

Our home form in terms of avoiding defeats is usually good but there are always far too many draws because I am not convinced that we have the craft or imagination in the team or enough quality attacking options to break teams down. I share your scepticism towards the system when Dack goes back, anyone who doesnt think that Dack walks into this team is in denial and ultimately the best system is the one that gets the best from him and Armstrong. Does 4-3-3 do that? Possibly not.

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly.

We have so many attacking players in which we need "breakthrough seasons" in that the players have attributes to do certain things but have never produced with any regularity. Mowbray bemoaned the absence of Rothwell yesterday but he was totally ineffective against Cardiff in a similar game and has been all promise and no end product throughout his time here. I keep hearing that this will be Brereton's breakthrough season but there is just nothing at the end of his game, his off the ball movement is really poor too, the amount of times that for example the full back or a midfielder will have the ball and rather than having any intention of making a clever run or getting into the box, he just drops deep and asks for the ball 5 yards away, often in close attention of a defender. Holtby undoubtedly has more talent than those 2 players but even he has yet to really produce regularly in a Rovers shirt. Rankin Costello was another missing yesterday, has he done anything in the first team so far to suggest that he would have made a difference yesterday? Dolan even in his good games looks very raw, often trying tricks to our detriment and ultimately he has a lot of development in front of him, and Chapman looks a busted flush. There is obviously the ongoing frustrations with Gallagher and we have a lot of reliance now on a 17 year old kid on loan who is highly rated and exciting (the likes of Brereton, Rankin Costello, Dolan etc wouldnt even be still at Liverpool never mind on the fringes of the first team squad) and hopefully gives us something new but is not of the same proven record as other clubs signing the likes of Harry Wilson and Anthony Knockaert on deadline day.

Mowbray also makes perplexing tactical decisions which do not help us trying to win games. This Gallagher on the wing shite is really infuriating and yesterday to have Armstrong as a lone striker, Chapman as a number 10 and Gallagher on the right was downright bizarre. Having Johnson who is a serious goal threat but a liability in front of his defence on the ball and Evans further forward with an onus to get forward was totally illogical too.

 

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly..

The squad we have assembled is definitely top end championship (especially this season)

Unfortunately our manager is not one of the better ones in the Division , something that will become glaringly obvious in the coming weeks..

 

[chaddyrovers]

Will Holtby be back in time for the game from his paternity leave? 

[Ewood Ace]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will Holtby be back in time for the game from his paternity leave? 

I hope so. Very disappointing that he was missing yesterday but typical of the holiday camp mentality at the club under Mowbray 

[AdamRochina]

another loss incoming as we fall further behind the pack i think

[roversfan99]

6 minutes ago, Waggy76 said:

Unavailability undoubtedly played a part yesterday but Mowbray certainly didnt use what he did have at his disposal correctly..

The squad we have assembled is definitely top end championship (especially this season)

Unfortunately our manager is not one of the better ones in the Division , something that will become glaringly obvious in the coming weeks..

 

 

I am unsure on exactly how good our squad is at the moment. I still feel that with so many players, its just hope that they will have a good season in spite of what they have done so far.

That being said, the back 4 (never thought I would say this) looks very competent at this level with Ayala and hopefully Douglas, and we do have some real quality and goals in Armstrong and Dack. I just wonder if Mowbray will get them 2 into the team together in a way that suits both, and also about the contribution of basically every other attacking player, Rothwell, Chapman, Brereton, Dolan, Gallagher, Rankin Costello, Buckley, even Holtby who I rate above all of those but he hasnt done it consistently for us yet.

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will Holtby be back in time for the game from his paternity leave? 

Good question, I hope so because we need him.

The choice to allow Holtby is an interesting one. Many managers would have expected him back for the game with his baby born a few days beforehand, especially with our depleted squad. Mowbray has been very generous.

[rigger]

7 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Will Holtby be back in time for the game from his paternity leave? 

He should have been flown back Friday night. Giving people time off when they can be spared is fine, but when we are short of players the club should come first. The Rovers do actually make his lifestyle possible

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Good question, I hope so because we need him.

The choice to allow Holtby is an interesting one. Many managers would have expected him back for the game with his baby born a few days beforehand, especially with our depleted squad. Mowbray has been very generous.

depends on the circumstance of his wife and the birth. Plus with his missus staying in Germany, Holtby won't see them again for while. 

I don't see back for this game. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, rigger said:

He should have been flown back Friday night. Giving people time off when they can be spared is fine, but when we are short of players the club should come first. The Rovers do actually make his lifestyle possible

well thats very easy for you to say. Espically when we don't know on circumstances why Mowbray allowed Holtby extra time off and with his wife staying in Germany and Holtby been over here. Its going to while until he sees his wife and child again

[m1st]

Yesterday's result was predictable in so many ways for Rovers' fans: first game after an 'international fortnight'; fans on a high following a more positive than expected transfer window; and, from what YouTube shows - I didn't watch the game 'live' - we were 'kicking the wrong way', with Forest's goal going in at the Blackburn End!

So it's important that we do as much as possible to bring all three points home from Watford. Which for me requires the following team to start the game:

Kaminski;

Nyambe, Ayala, Lenihan, Douglas;

Trybull, Holtby*, Johnson;

Armstrong, Gallagher, Elliott.

Subs: Pears; Rankin-Costello, Williams, Bell, Evans, Brereton, Dolan.

Bell may have had a better game than often yesterday but, from all I've read about Douglas, he's an upgrade on Bell and that's why he's been signed. Also, as has been noted elsewhere, having been signed from Leeds - and accepting that he's only played one game this season before his transfer, he's a product of Bielsa's training regime so may well be the fittest bloke in blue and white halves.

After yesterday, Trybull, for me, has to come into midfield. Again, I believe he's an improvement on Evans and that alone would warrant his immediate selection.

As for the front three, I'd lump - sorry, play! - Gallagher in the middle with the instruction that if he even tried to play on one of the wings, he would face, in the words of the 8th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, "a cruel and unusual punishment"!

When I asked my correspondent with an Anfield season ticket about Elliott's attributes, he specifically mentioned his 'toughness'. Which gives me hope that he'll be more than able to cope with whatever wiles the Watford defence have waiting for him.

If we weren't ahead with 25 - 30 minutes to go, I'd replace one of the midfielders with either JRC or Dolan.

* Assuming he's back from Paternity Leave.

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by m1st
Holtby.

[Vilesinner]

5 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I'm genuinely amazed that Evans gets in anyones side injuries or not 

The most non descript footballer we have.

Why? When he was a big part of our 6 wins from 7 last year, and N Ireland's success. N Ireland struggle without him.

That being said all three central midfielders were poor yesterday.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

 Its going to while until he sees his wife and child again

Heart bleeds.  Maybe he should use his probably 10k per week to sort a family home here in Lancashire.  Some nice places down near Brockhall

[Rogerb]

49 minutes ago, m1st said:

 

 

Bell may have had a better game than often yesterday but, from all I've read about Douglas, he's an upgrade on Bell and that's why he's been signed. Also, as has been noted elsewhere, having been signed from Leeds - and accepting that he's only played one game this season before his transfer, he's a product of Bielsa's training regime so may well be the fittest bloke in blue and white halve

 

 

A very valid point Bielsa 's training regime would put some of our players in intensive care

[rigger]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

well thats very easy for you to say. Espically when we don't know on circumstances why Mowbray allowed Holtby extra time off and with his wife staying in Germany and Holtby been over here. Its going to while until he sees his wife and child again

It's an hours flight from Manchester to Germany, not a safari to the middle of Africa. And as you say, we don't know the circumstances. People always assume the worst. Perhaps he was given extra time off because Mowbray thought he was not required, then call offs and injuries occurred. I think that unless his family was in some sort of trouble, he should have been called back. 

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, rigger said:

It's an hours flight from Manchester to Germany, not a safari to the middle of Africa. And as you say, we don't know the circumstances. People always assume the worst. Perhaps he was given extra time off because Mowbray thought he was not required, then call offs and injuries occurred. I think that unless his family was in some sort of trouble, he should have been called back. 

It doesn't matter how far your family is away from you. It will affect him personally. Family should always come first before work which football is.  

[1864roverite]

No point in sentiment here you play the strongest team available that means no Evans ! 

[islander200]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

It doesn't matter how far your family is away from you. It will affect him personally. Family should always come first before work which football is.  

Yes and he has had some time with his family now it's time to come back .He really shouldn't be missing the game on Wednesday

[MarkBRFC]

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

Why? When he was a big part of our 6 wins from 7 last year, and N Ireland's success. N Ireland struggle without him.

That being said all three central midfielders were poor yesterday.

He's been here over 7 years now, probably just over two hands worth of good performances in that time 

He epitomises the venkys era to me. Slow, sluggish, no urgency, never fit for long periods, always puts internationals before the club who pays his wages.

He's been laughing at us for years, we have to move on from players like this to progress.

His performance yesterday was horrible, summed up by the two weakest crosses you have ever seen when free on the left in the oppositions penalty area in the first half, followed by that awful sliced "shot" in the second half.

Get rid.