Watford v Rovers Wed 21st Oct 7.45pm

[LeftWinger]

Just now, Mercer said:

Played 6, lost 3, points 7, league position 14th - those are the facts that count. 

Pretty much irrelevant our league position after 6 games. 

[Colt Seavers]

4 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

Lenihan has always been fairly prosaic, but don’t know if it’s him playing on the left side to accomadate Ayala, but he’s looking very ponderous in possession and a mistake waiting fo happen.

It seemed to me that Lenihan played on the left of the two at the weekend with Ayala playing left last night. I don't think either of them are comfortable there at all. Maybe they can adjust but we don't really have time for that experiment. Williams is going to have to come in.

The whole back four looked unsettled last night. One of the problems is caused by having Johnson and Evans together. They don't have the mobility of the likes of Travis or Trybull and the result is that Brereton ends up being criticised for failing to track all the way to his own six yard box. He is supposed to be in a front three for goodness sake! Where was Corry Evans at the time?

With a more mobile midfield, I think the first two goals could have been snuffed out. Rothwell's tracking back is vastly improved this season and we are missing his energy and movement. 

I think with a proper centre half pairing and the return of our better players we can be very competitive indeed:

                                                 Kaminski

                                  Nyambe Ayala Williams Douglas

                                         Holtby Trybull Rothwell

                                        Elliott Armstrong Brereton

 

Probably our strongest line-up since the sensational team assembled by Bowyer some years ago. (Which he didn't have the experience /nous to get promoted).

[Exiled_Rover]

1 minute ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Eh? Nyambe was marking him, lost him and he scored from where the FB should have been. 

He's LITERALLY a CM running through the middle of the pitch - the ball was palmed out to the penalty spot. 

If we accepted CMs not doing their job and pointing at their man for someone else to take, Keith Andrews would be a Rovers legend. 

It's not on the RB - who is essentially playing RWB in this team - to pick up a CM breaking from midfield on a break. It's Holtby's man - Nyambe just ends up closest to him so therefore cops the blame from some. 

 

 

 

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

Pretty much irrelevant our league position after 6 games. 

We are already 6 points off an auto promo place and 4 points off a play off place - I think that's very relevant.

Said it many times, a fast start gives confidence and momentum which take you a long, long way in this league especially when it's a bang average year. 

Edited October 22, 2020 by Mercer

[DE.]

The fact remains we are yet to get a win against a decent team. We smashed Wycombe and Derby but the former have lost 6/6 and the latter have lost 5/6 so far this season. I can't really feel particularly optimistic until we actually start beating good teams. We couldn't break down Forest or Cardiff and Bournemouth and Watford both put three past us, even if the performances were good. There's still a lot of work to do - the new players should help but the proof is in the pudding and we haven't seen that yet.

Edited October 22, 2020 by DE.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

13 minutes ago, den said:

I agree with a lot of those comments, but what we did display last night was not having a clue how to win the game. Within 17 mins of kick off we had basically lost the three points.

All the above is great. It’s the way top sides play from the KO. - moving the ball quickly, good player movement, accurate passing, ball retention etc. Great to watch. The top sides though usually have world class defenders at the back and can still retain their discipline. Their players don’t tend to get dragged out of position.

Rovers though don’t have that. The back four as a unit are just - IMO - slow to assess the dangers of the breakaway get caught ball watching when crosses come in and to be fair to them don’t always get the cover from the midfielders who have wandered upfield without looking behind them. Decent sides will see all this, sit back and hit us on the break knowing they can cause us problems.

For me, while we play good football at times, we are very naive with the game plan. Oh and the back four are so fragile defensively. 

We just don't sense danger as a unit until it's too late.

[jim mk2]

Look at Howard Kendall's promotion team and Kenny Dalglish's Premiership-winning team. They didn't play the best football but they knew how to win football matches. Kendall's side won alot of games 1-0 IIRC, rock solid in defence and took their chances when they came.

That Rovers performance last night was the opposite.... a host of missed opportunities  and soft goals conceded too easily. We effectively lost the game in the first 20 mins.

I don't hold out any hope for this season. Nothing has changed. 

[philipl]

2 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Look at Howard Kendall's promotion team and Kenny Dalglish's Premiership-winning team. They didn't play the best football but they knew how to win football matches. Kendall's side won alot of games 1-0 IIRC, rock solid in defence and took their chances when they came.

That Rovers performance last night was the opposite.... a host of missed opportunities  and soft goals conceded too easily. We effectively lost the game in the first 20 mins.

I don't hold out any hope for this season. Nothing has changed. 

But we will lose more entertainingly

[den]

14 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

We just don't sense danger as a unit until it's too late.

If you watch their first goal, when the cross came in we had two defenders marking nobody and the unmarked Watford player had all the freedom he needed to score. That’s ball watching meaning they had no idea what was happening behind them. Basic footballing discipline. 
 

Mowbrays problem is that we are sometimes too hung ho, but if we approach the game with a little more caution we can’t keep the opposition out. You would think as a defender he could sort that out. Big Sam could.

Edited October 22, 2020 by den

[LDRover]

28 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He's LITERALLY a CM running through the middle of the pitch - the ball was palmed out to the penalty spot. 

If we accepted CMs not doing their job and pointing at their man for someone else to take, Keith Andrews would be a Rovers legend. 

It's not on the RB - who is essentially playing RWB in this team - to pick up a CM breaking from midfield on a break. It's Holtby's man - Nyambe just ends up closest to him so therefore cops the blame from some. 

 

 

 

How us he explicitly Holtby's man when he is the more advanced of our 3 in CM?. Furthermore, who was Nyambe marking? He is facing the right way, should be alert to the danger and react accordingly. If he's stood scratching his arse in the 6 yard box ball watching with a Watford player in his zone then, yes he is culpable.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

35 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

He's LITERALLY a CM running through the middle of the pitch - the ball was palmed out to the penalty spot. 

If we accepted CMs not doing their job and pointing at their man for someone else to take, Keith Andrews would be a Rovers legend. 

It's not on the RB - who is essentially playing RWB in this team - to pick up a CM breaking from midfield on a break. It's Holtby's man - Nyambe just ends up closest to him so therefore cops the blame from some. 

 

 

 

Holtby passed him on, no point two rovers players marking the same man. 

[philipl]

3 minutes ago, LDRover said:

How us he explicitly Holtby's man when he is the more advanced of our 3 in CM?. Furthermore, who was Nyambe marking? He is facing the right way, should be alert to the danger and react accordingly. If he's stood scratching his arse in the 6 yard box ball watching with a Watford player in his zone then, yes he is culpable.

Nyambe furthest out on the right picks up the Watford player furthest out on their left even if its the GK up for a 95th minute corner.

For that goal, Cleverley was the player Nyambe should have seen and not allowed an unchallenged header.

I am a fan of Ryan's.

That goal went horribly wrong for Rovers by what was not happening on the left side of our defence but Nyambe could and should have been more alert to Cleverley stealing in.

[47er]

52 minutes ago, DavidMailsTightPerm said:

Putting the ball in the back of the net is where we fell down. This is why top strikers cost so much money.

Well our strikers did cost so much money didn't they? Without being top though.

[LeftWinger]

45 minutes ago, Mercer said:

We are already 6 points off an auto promo place and 4 points off a play off place - I think that's very relevant.

At this stage in 2018/19 Norwich were 9 points off an automatic spot and 6 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2017/18 Fulham were 7 points off an automatic spot and 3 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted via the play offs.

At this stage in 2014/15 Bournemouth were 5 points off an automatic spot and 3 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2012/13 Crystal Palace were 6 points off an automatic spot and 4 points off a play off place. Rovers were top. Was that relevant? Palace promoted via the play offs, Rovers finished 17th.

At this stage in 2011/12 Reading were 11 points off an automatic spot and 7 points off a play off place. They were in the relegation zone in fact. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2009/10 Blackpool were 7 points off an automatic spot and 4 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted via the play offs.

Who was top of the Premier League after 6 games in 1994/95? Newcastle. We were 4 points behind them already. Was that relevant? You don't get a trophy for being top after 6 games.

It's a good job none of those sides above gave up after 6 games I guess.

Edited October 22, 2020 by LeftWinger

[tugayislegend]

Lenihan own goal was a direct result of nyambe giving the ball away 30 seconds earlier! He played a 5 yard pass behind Holtby when under no pressure!

Dont know if anybody noticed this, but it was criminal.

[rigger]

1 minute ago, tugayislegend said:

Lenihan own goal was a direct result of nyambe giving the ball away 30 seconds earlier! He played a 5 yard pass behind Holtby when under no pressure!

Dont know if anybody noticed this, but it was criminal.

my thought process would be why does Nyambe have to make a five yard pass when he is under no pressure.

[G Somerset Rover]

4 minutes ago, rigger said:

my thought process would be why does Nyambe have to make a five yard pass when he is under no pressure.

Bang on - he takes that option too often for my liking. He’s quick as hell, strong as an ox. Use it Ryan!

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Don't buy all this 'we played well nonsense'.

If you consistently play well and don't get results then there is a big, big problem.

Played 6, lost 3, points 7, league position 14th - those are the facts that count. 

I would say we played well in 4 out of the 6. We won 2 and lost two of those. Against Cardiff we were average and Forest poor.

So don't see it as a big problem at the moment. For me there are far more positives than negatives - from style of play to recruitment of players.

We have been a little unlucky with injuries/covid - but that is going to be an issue for most teams. It was a shame that two of our currently better performing players got Covid.

[tomphil]

14 minutes ago, rigger said:

my thought process would be why does Nyambe have to make a five yard pass when he is under no pressure.

My guess is that's the way he's being coached, possession based remember.  It's evident throughout the team.

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

We are already 6 points off an auto promo place and 4 points off a play off place - I think that's very relevant.

Said it many times, a fast start gives confidence and momentum which take you a long, long way in this league especially when it's a bang average year. 

Indeed so. Preston were top last November...

[rog of the rovers]

A few things I picked up on:

The team in general has undergone a huge transformation. Once Douglas comes in for Bell and assuming JRC reclaims his right back slot from Nyambe, very few of our League One team reamain. Of course we have Dack to come back in, and Armstrong who was on loan, but the squad has certainly developed in a short period of time.

No Gallagher in the squad? Dropped or left at home?

Dolan looks 18, he's got bags and bags of talent, but I'm glad some of the expectations on him are being checked.

Elliott on the other hand at 17, looks like a future star. Faded yes, but looking forward to seeing him in the blue n white halves for the next 40 or so games.

Wharton looked poor when he came on, gave the ball away so many times!

Douglas on penalties in the future? Or at least having a crack at goal from free kicks near the box would be nice.

Travis and Dack missing, if we can get them both back in the next month or so, will be huge additions.

Kaminski redeemed himself in the second half with the stop from Sarr, much happier with him back there compared to Walton.

Defeats like these are likely to come playing this system, but glad we stuck to our formula.

Ben Foster (former England international) proved what a good keeper he is, even before the penalty save. Top bloke too.

Watford and Bournemouth, two of the three teams we've lost against, will be in the top 6 at the end of the season. 

The kit still looks fantastic, glad to see us wearing blue n white away from home.

Give the new players time to gel, but I'd expect to see Trybull and Douglas start either Saturday, or next Tuesday.

Pears obviously second choice ahead of the Greek fella.

 

[Exiled in Toronto]

34 minutes ago, rigger said:

my thought process would be why does Nyambe have to make a five yard pass when he is under no pressure.

Because he doesn’t have the brain or skill to do anything better. Add to that, his positioning last night was constantly ludicrous - 15 yards ahead of Elliott ffs.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, LDRover said:

How us he explicitly Holtby's man when he is the more advanced of our 3 in CM?. Furthermore, who was Nyambe marking? He is facing the right way, should be alert to the danger and react accordingly. If he's stood scratching his arse in the 6 yard box ball watching with a Watford player in his zone then, yes he is culpable.

Watch the highlights. Cleverley runs off the back of Holtby.

Nyambe was a long way away from the play when they broke - unless he flat out sprinted the moment he saw Cleverley running he was never going to catch him.

[Exiled_Rover]

52 minutes ago, tugayislegend said:

Lenihan own goal was a direct result of nyambe giving the ball away 30 seconds earlier! He played a 5 yard pass behind Holtby when under no pressure!

Dont know if anybody noticed this, but it was criminal.

I'd argue Lenihan's own goal was a direct result of him being shit.

It's a nothing ball into the box. 

[47er]

1 hour ago, LeftWinger said:

At this stage in 2018/19 Norwich were 9 points off an automatic spot and 6 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2017/18 Fulham were 7 points off an automatic spot and 3 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted via the play offs.

At this stage in 2014/15 Bournemouth were 5 points off an automatic spot and 3 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2012/13 Crystal Palace were 6 points off an automatic spot and 4 points off a play off place. Rovers were top. Was that relevant? Palace promoted via the play offs, Rovers finished 17th.

At this stage in 2011/12 Reading were 11 points off an automatic spot and 7 points off a play off place. They were in the relegation zone in fact. Was that relevant? Promoted as Champions.

At this stage in 2009/10 Blackpool were 7 points off an automatic spot and 4 points off a play off place. Was that relevant? Promoted via the play offs.

Who was top of the Premier League after 6 games in 1994/95? Newcastle. We were 4 points behind them already. Was that relevant? You don't get a trophy for being top after 6 games.

It's a good job none of those sides above gave up after 6 games I guess.

We hear this every season too! We never hear about teams that were at or near the top after the early games and went down though!