Watford v Rovers Wed 21st Oct 7.45pm

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, tonygreenbank said:

To be pedantic but your opening sentence is wrong. We are 9 points off the top and 11 points off the bottom.

If you are counting sheff wednesday then they are better off than us by a point as they have gained 8 this season so far.....

7 points above Wycombe and 9 behind Resding alteady.....

You dress it up how you want mate but 3 defeats in 7 is poor in this league.

[rigger]

7 hours ago, tomphil said:

My guess is that's the way he's being coached, possession based remember.  It's evident throughout the team.

I was taught every pass has the chance of an interception or a mistake in control. pass when it gains you an advantage or if you are under pressure, but not for the sake of it. especially in your own half.

[darrenrover]

34 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

We play the Liverpool way where a pacy front 3 closing down. Rhodes is ok Ike Ian Rush; a player of the past.

The Liverpool way, average per game over 38 games: Goals scored 2.24, Goals conceded 0.87, Points 2.62. Compare with our average per game over 6 games: Goals scored 2.0, Goals conceded 1.17, Points 1.17.

We may attempt to play a 'high pressing game' (occasionally IMO) but to compare us with Liverpool is just absolutely ridiculous. As is the comment "we play the Liverpool way". We just don't, we might aspire to do, but we're currently a million miles off actually doing so IMO and the statistics, in addition to my eyes, confirm it.

[darrenrover]

21 minutes ago, Silas said:

My biggest problem with yesterday:

A few weeks ago it was said Cardiff nullified us by having a plan and doubling up on Dolan to plug that outlet. No offence intended, but in reality, Dolan is still a no-mark free transfer from a mid table Championship club.

Yesterday we were up against, I assume, the most expensive winger in the League at 30 million. What was our plan to counteract this? As far as I saw, it was to play an incredibly high defensive line (pretty much halfway line), and leave Sarr 1 on 1 with the weakest member of our back 4. And repeatedly let him run at said defender.....in space.....without giving any assistance.  

And then everyone appeared shocked with the predictable results this tactic produced.

I'm fine with Rovers adopting this high line, high press approach in general. It's exciting to watch and will help us win games over the season. But you have to adapt to your opponents, and yesterday, that tactic played right into Watford's hands. 

Totally agree Silas, it was an extremely naive tactic. Mowbray should be hauled over the coals for that, it was so predictable.

[Silas]

12 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Totally agree Silas, it was an extremely naive tactic. Mowbray should be hauled over the coals for that, it was so predictable.

So frustrating. And doesn't help to dispell the notion that sometimes we aren't the most well prepared, professional outfit.

I'll be honest, I'd never heard of Sarr before yesterday. Not popped up on my radar. But having done my research since I can see he was MOTM last December when they beat Man U 2-0 with one newspaper stating "A Sarr is born."

So it was hardly a secret. And we seemed to have zero plan to deal with it.

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, Silas said:

So frustrating. And doesn't help to dispell the notion that sometimes we aren't the most well prepared, professional outfit.

I'll be honest, I'd never heard of Sarr before yesterday. Not popped up on my radar. But having done my research since I can see he was MOTM last December when they beat Man U 2-0 with one newspaper stating "A Sarr is born."

So it was hardly a secret. And we seemed to have zero plan to deal with it.

The plan was...Bell...

[LDRover]

Hate that chipped nothing ball down the line that is Bell's default pass. Such a lazy bit of play putting all the emphasis on the player in the channel to make something out of

[Silas]

32 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

The plan was...Bell...

 

[islander200]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

If you are counting sheff wednesday then they are better off than us by a point as they have gained 8 this season so far.....

7 points above Wycombe and 9 behind Resding alteady.....

You dress it up how you want mate but 3 defeats in 7 is poor in this league.

2 of those defeats were away against  2 relegated sides with a number of multi million pound players in their squads.

It is too early into the season to predict one way or another how we will fare this season.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, islander200 said:

2 of those defeats were away against  2 relegated sides with a number of multi million pound players in their squads.

It is too early into the season to predict one way or another how we will fare this season.

Agree, far too early to properly judge BUT a familiar pattern is already evident - struggle to create at home, struggle to defend away, lots of possession.

The football is far, far better though. 

[islander200]

3 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Agree, far too early to properly judge BUT a familiar pattern is already evident - struggle to create at home, struggle to defend away, lots of possession.

The football is far, far better though. 

Yeah fair enough we struggled to create in our last two home games, and I appreciate what I say next will just look like I am making excuses about our start and for TM(not his biggest fan either) but the conditions in the Cardiff game were absolutely terrible and altho we didn't create many chances, we had a couple that should have been put away.

In the Forest game we had a number of players unavailable and when I seen the team and bench pre match I thought we would struggle.

It's too early to judge, I do believe the manager has recruited well this summer(for once) and a front 6 from  Rothwell, Trybull,Holtby,Johnson,Dack, Armstrong,Elliot , Brereton and Dolan will be good enough to break teams down when they come and sit against us imo but it won't be an overnight thing, I expect us to improve as the season goes on.

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, tomphil said:

3 games v Cardiff, Forest and Watford yeilded 1 goal so it might be fair to say it's not a raging success. 

I'm quite confident we'd have nicked something out of one of those games with a Rhodes or Graham lurking about. 

I was content at letting Graham go, he clearly had dipped quite badly last season, both in terms of goal threat and all round game. I did empathise with him on the podcast I listened too when he said that he was unhappy to not be in the team at the start of last season however.

That being said, I cant shake the feeling that we have very little substance and depth in attack, which was proven yesterday. The only striker that was out was Gallagher, who is not a particularly good one, or one at all in Mowbrays eyes. We had absolutely no alternatives up front with Armstrong having a shocker, or indeed as would have been more likely, any potential partners for Armstrong or even a striker to allow Armstrong to play out wide.

This bizarre idea that a 20 goal striker has become worthless in the modern game is absolutely crazy by the way. His career is obviously at an all time low now but even so, he would still be right amidst the first team picture now. At the level that he was at here, he is the first name on the team sheet.

[Sparks Rover]

52 minutes ago, islander200 said:

2 of those defeats were away against  2 relegated sides with a number of multi million pound players in their squads.

It is too early into the season to predict one way or another how we will fare this season.

6 goals against.  Its like Mowbray was surprised they could attack.  No thought to shut up shop, no defensive plan, just same as last season and the seaon before.

[islander200]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

6 goals against.  Its like Mowbray was surprised they could attack.  No thought to shut up shop, no defensive plan, just same as last season and the seaon before.

I remember a number of posters including myself bemoaning the fact Mowbray was too negative and wasn't letting the team attack teams last year and the season before.

Look I don't know how we will fare this season but losses against Watford and Bournemouth ain't making me feel we will be close to relegation.We were very unlucky not to come away with at least a point at Bournemouth and altho we undoubtedly deserved to lose last night we created a load of chances and but for a mixture of poor finishing and good goalkeeping we would have had more than the 1 goal.

We broke through Watford on a number of occasions so is there defence shit aswell?Sarr and Pedro are playing below their level, even if we had gone defensive or doubled up on Sarr still think he has the ability to break us down along with most teams in the championship.

Think if we play a similar attacking game against poorer opposition that don't have premier league squads we will win more often than not this season

[bazza]

If you want automatic promotion you should aim to lose no more than 8 games in the season. We have played 6 and already lost 3. So only play-off places to play for and that will be a struggle.

Now, with our current fit players, what is our strongest 11?

Nyambe has lost whatever confidence he had and seems to be going backwards (like his incessant passes from the halfway line). Lenihan cannot play left of centre. Neither can Ayala. And Ayala is injured. So my back 4 would be JRC, Lenihan, Williams, Douglas.

Midfield 3 of Holtby, Trybull, Rothwell

Attacking 3  Elliott, Brereton, Armstrong

Bench to be Johnson, Buckley, Dolan, Chapman, Wharton, Nyambe, Pears.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

4 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

He has the jumping ability of a lamp post.. would rather have a someone shorter who can actually jump! 

I was watching David Speedie on the Nostalgia thread. He was about 5' 8" on a good day and he could jump higher.

[tomphil]

46 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I was content at letting Graham go, he clearly had dipped quite badly last season, both in terms of goal threat and all round game. I did empathise with him on the podcast I listened too when he said that he was unhappy to not be in the team at the start of last season however.

That being said, I cant shake the feeling that we have very little substance and depth in attack, which was proven yesterday. The only striker that was out was Gallagher, who is not a particularly good one, or one at all in Mowbrays eyes. We had absolutely no alternatives up front with Armstrong having a shocker, or indeed as would have been more likely, any potential partners for Armstrong or even a striker to allow Armstrong to play out wide.

This bizarre idea that a 20 goal striker has become worthless in the modern game is absolutely crazy by the way. His career is obviously at an all time low now but even so, he would still be right amidst the first team picture now. At the level that he was at here, he is the first name on the team sheet.

Likes of him and DG are the ones who nick that one chance in tight games or when you're playing shite.

That kind of thing is badly missing with us. It sometimes seems we win well or we don't win.

Some called Rhodes a flat track bully only scoring against weaker sides mainly. Well not much has changed if that was the case.  

To really get anywhere we have to start nicking tight games and turning games around when we are behind. 

Not just against the good ones either. I agree this putting your stock into goals from around the side and ignoring the need for a reliable solid central striker is flawed for a team like us.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, Vilesinner said:

We play the Liverpool way where a pacy front 3 closing down. Rhodes is ok Ike Ian Rush; a player of the past.

When Rush was his heyday he was one of the first strikers to start the fashion for defending from the front. He was always on the move looked to intercept loose passes etc. Rhodes wouldn't do that when he was in his prime, he isn't going to do that now. It'd be like when Fred Pickering and John Byrom came back, they were past their best and playing on memories.

[islander200]

As much as we say nothing in the championship this year, Watford, Bournemouth and Norwich kept the majority of their Premier league squads so on paper realistically 2 of those teams should be in the automatic spots.

Watford last night Sarr 25 million rated and is a premier league player ,Pedro looks a player, can bring Copoue off the bench, Deeney and Grey in their squad.

Bournemouth Josh King ,Brooks,Cook etc etc 

Automatic spots never realistic barring a miracle but the play offs are still attainable we had 2 poor performances this season v Forest and Cardiff.Half a team wasn't available against Forest.

The people who are talking like we should be going to Watford and Bournemouth and winning are the same people who say every week how nearly every player we have is crap.

If we perform as we did last night we will beat Coventry imo.

[47er]

4 hours ago, islander200 said:

Im no big Mowbray fan either but he was the manager last Friday also and you seemed a little optimistic after they signed, so find it a little odd you practically writing off our chances for top 6 this year when those players have only been at the club for 6 days and 2 of them haven't started a match 

 

Is one thing signing players, its another thing making them into a team. Time after time TM shows he's not very good at it. If he came out and said he will never play Gally or Brereton wide again it would be a start.

Every time he does it, I think "we could have had a dangerous winger out there".

[islander200]

Just now, 47er said:

Is one thing signing players, its another thing making them into a team. Time after time TM shows he's not very good at it. If he came out and said he will never play Gally or Brereton wide again it would be a start.

Every time he does it, I think "we could have had a dangerous winger out there".

Brereton has played well in half our matches, the two victory's and last night, he was ok against Bournemouth and he was shit against Forest and Cardiff along with the rest of the team.How many free kicks does he win?Scored last night.He is coming along ok THIS season 

Douglas and Trybull yet to start, Rothwell to come back and then Dack.People are talking like the season is over already...not referring to you btw 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

15 minutes ago, 47er said:

Is one thing signing players, its another thing making them into a team. Time after time TM shows he's not very good at it. If he came out and said he will never play Gally or Brereton wide again it would be a start.

Every time he does it, I think "we could have had a dangerous winger out there".

I've struggled with his recruitment policy for a long while. It seems to be more about building a squad than actually building a team. I know it's a not an 11 man game anymore and having a strong bench is vital but I'd like to know what our best starting 11 is. Does Mowbray know ?

[islander200]

34 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I've struggled with his recruitment policy for a long while. It seems to be more about building a squad than actually building a team. I know it's a not an 11 man game anymore and having a strong bench is vital but I'd like to know what our best starting 11 is. Does Mowbray know ?

He has just brought in 3 players that will improve the starting 11 add Kaminski and Ayala that is nearly half the team improved in one window 

[tonygreenbank]

4 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

If you are counting sheff wednesday then they are better off than us by a point as they have gained 8 this season so far.....

7 points above Wycombe and 9 behind Resding alteady.....

You dress it up how you want mate but 3 defeats in 7 is poor in this league.

I am of course counting Wednesday as they are currently bottom of the league with -4 points which is 11 points below our figure of 7.

You again are wrong in saying we have 3 defeats in 7 as we have played only 6.

Im not “dressing it up” at all and I believe 2 wins is a poor return at the moment but one statistic that we can agree on and be delighted with is that we are the top scorers with 12 goals which suggests that we can be optimistic once our influential players return.

[Sparks Rover]

24 minutes ago, tonygreenbank said:

You again are wrong in saying we have 3 defeats in 7 as we have played only 6.

Thats even worse.? 

Sheff Wed had started on 0 we would be 15th....

Not forgetting the hone loss to bottom 4 team who couldn't beat rotherham....

Edited October 22, 2020 by Sparks Rover