Rovers v Middlesbrough Tuesday 3rd November

[broadsword]

18 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

Woulda coulda shoulda....its like groundhog day. 

Every day is like groundhog day round here ? 

[Blue blood]

34 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I'd include Forest in the 'shite' category. 1 win in 9. 

And this is what debate about Rovers has come to. Whether a team that beats us is crap or average... Not a dig at you Hoochie, I can see your reasoning, more wondering how we have got to this place where this is the debate under TM. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, Blue blood said:

And this is what debate about Rovers has come to. Whether a team that beats us is crap or average... Not a dig at you Hoochie, I can see your reasoning, more wondering how we have got to this place where this is the debate under TM. 

Haha, no offence taken, like you say it's all become very meta. 

[arbitro]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

I must admit that I do have some sympathy with regard to the injury situation.  I think it's a result of so many games in such a short space of time and can understand why the likes of Pep etc wanted the extra substitutes rule to stay for this season.  I suspect we will have any number of players from all clubs going down with muscle injuries throughout the season.  Add that the whole business of self-isolating and I suspect we are going to see numerous make-shift sides selected.

Where I do agree with you is the point about our non-striking strikers.  Gallagher and Brereton have cost a huge amount of money, particularly given our financial position, and neither one looks anywhere near good enough for a team wanting to make a serious challenge for the top six.  The buck for that stops at the manager's door.

That chance last night was one that any natural goalscorer would have gratefully snapped up.  Sadly, these two are always that fraction of a second too late because they are usually on their heels and don't read the game in the way an instinctive goalscorer would.  You don't need to be a £5 or £6 million pound striker to score those short of chances - the likes of Tony Field and Simon Garner built careers on snapping up those type of chances.  Brereton has scored 1 goal in 10 games and that is when he is supposedly showing good form.  Gallagher too is a one goal striker so far, although admittedly he has been sidelined by injury but nothing he has done here in the past suggests he is going to be a 15 or 18 goals a season man.

I was looking back at Kendall's side earlier today and I thought last night's game was a game we would have nicked 1-0.  Crawford would have done nothing for 89 minutes, snapped up that chance and the defence would have held out for the win.  Sadly, I really don't see us getting the 1-0 wins that ensure a successful season at the moment.

Whilst we are down on numbers we could still put four internationals in the starting line up yesterday which many Championship clubs couldn't. I was never keen on the five substitute rule simply because it gives an opportunity to change half of your starting team which I believe is far too many. I saw Pep's quotes but I wonder if he would be moaning if City hadn't had an indifferent start. I haven't heard the likes of Rodgers, Ancelloti or Hassenhuttl moaning.

On the subject of our strikers I honestly can't see either of them as naturals. Their movement in the penalty area is poor with awful anticipation but I do wonder about the quality of coaching they are getting. I was thinking today about how many players have actually improved under Mowbray and his coaches. In my view most have stood still or even regressed in this period although the likes of Dack are the obvious exceptions.

[roversfan99]

Is there any striker for any of the other 23 sides in the division that anyone wouldnt swap for Gallagher or Brereton out of interest? I cant think of any.

[Stuart]

8 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray's comments 

Link please.

If players were testing positive for COVID then the team would be isolating.

So he either misspoke or it’s BS.

[Rogerb]

18 hours ago, Paul Mani said:

 

Yep, he’s a young lad and not fully developed so he got pinned a few times but he’ll grow and get more confident. 

He's 22+ unlikely to grow any more other than girth. Not like he's an 18 year old

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, Mercer said:

Armstrong June issue irrelevant.

First team coach isolated - IMO, a blessing in disguise.

Data analysis department isolated - firstly, does Mowbray not watch the game?  Greats such as Alf Ramsey, Busby, Shankly, Clough, Paisley etc didn't need data analysis - you can only imagine what Cloughie would have said about it.  Anyhow, mute point - surely they can work from home and communicate with Mowbray through media such as zoom.  IMO, it's just one feckin excuse after another.

 

Blah blah blah Mercer..

Football has moved on since those days. You still live in the past Mercer. And you want a dingle in charge at Rovers in place of Manager

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Waggy76 said:

Well Rhodes would have scored last night !!

But those two bring soooo much more to the team.  We've been told enough by the experts who know the experts and the rest.

Yes they do when we are battering weaker teams although somebody else usually has to set the ball rolling. Meanwhile in the bread and butter world (the majority of champ games in other words ) good chances, half chances and the one chance in 95 mins go missing consistently.

You can't go from Rhodes to DG and Dack to these powder puffs and call it progress.

[Blue blood]

Just now, tomphil said:

But those two bring soooo much more to the team.  We've been told enough by the experts who know the experts and the rest.

Yes they do when we are battering weaker teams although somebody else usually has to set the ball rolling. Meanwhile in the bread and butter world (the majority of champ games in other words ) good chances, half chances and the one chance in 95 mins go missing consistently.

You can't go from Rhodes to DG and Dack to these powder puffs and call it progress.

Too right. And if I'm honest I don't think they bring that much to the team when battering weaker opponents. Certainly Gally, one goal aside, hasn't looked that promising or threatening at all. And Bereton though much improved, is at best useful, and without this system  that favours him, his usefulness decreases significantly. 

At present we have Plan A for beating weaker teams, which is great, gets something out of Bereton, and is key because we have often struggled to break these teams down. 

But we don't have a Plan B for facing other teams, that doesn't leave us too vulnerable. Perhaps this should say we don't have a Plan A because, as you say, these are the majority of games. 

[Oldgregg86]

10 hours ago, roverstdt said:

Yesterday performance there is no sugar coating it wasn't great however, what other players could we use? At the minute we are doing to the very barebone with

It’s not what other players could we use it’s what did we do with the players available. We can’t keep trotting out hard luck stories . Maybe last night I’m being harsh as a one off but there is always A reason we can’t compete. ALWAYS. We just need to sort the keeper, we just need to sort the defence, we just need dack back, we just need rothwell driving forward . We just a need a manager who can organise a team of 11 professional footballers from the squad of 30 odd players he’s assembled to be able to play as a unit and maybe just maybe have the odd shot in target

Edited November 4, 2020 by Oldgregg86

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Oldgregg86 said:

It’s not what other players could we use it’s what did we do with the players available. We can’t keep trotting out hard luck stories . Maybe last night I’m being harsh as a one off but there is always A reason we can’t compete. ALWAYS. We just need to sort the keeper, we just need to sort the defence, we just need dack back, we just need rothwell driving forward . We just a need a manager who can organise a team of 11 professional footballers from the squad of 30 odd players he’s assembled to be able to play as a unit and maybe just maybe have the odd shot in target

Spot on. We are also always *insert reason here* away from putting together a run of wins too.

[Oldgregg86]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Spot on. We are also always *insert reason here* away from putting together a run of wins too.

And round and round we go ?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

3 hours ago, darrenrover said:

You or I would have seen that cross coming Tyrone and done enough to see it nestle in the back of the net.

I played on the left wing a bit when I was starting out and even then I knew to get in the penalty box when the ball was over on the right wing. I got a few goals that way and a few bollockings from other older team members when the crosses from the right were over hit into the big empty space I'd just left !  It was noticeable that MGP's goals dried up a lot when he stopped getting into the penalty box.

[Waggy76]

3 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Blah blah blah Mercer..

Football has moved on since those days. You still live in the past Mercer. And you want a dingle in charge at Rovers in place of Manager

No he doesn't live in the past , those managers knew infinitely more about football than Mowbray and his cohorts put together  .....

I disagree with him about the Dingle though 

[Exiled_Rover]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

Whilst we are down on numbers we could still put four internationals in the starting line up yesterday which many Championship clubs couldn't. I was never keen on the five substitute rule simply because it gives an opportunity to change half of your starting team which I believe is far too many. I saw Pep's quotes but I wonder if he would be moaning if City hadn't had an indifferent start. I haven't heard the likes of Rodgers, Ancelloti or Hassenhuttl moaning.

On the subject of our strikers I honestly can't see either of them as naturals. Their movement in the penalty area is poor with awful anticipation but I do wonder about the quality of coaching they are getting. I was thinking today about how many players have actually improved under Mowbray and his coaches. In my view most have stood still or even regressed in this period although the likes of Dack are the obvious exceptions.

I'm the last person to defend Mowbray on this board, but unfortunately it's a team game - having 4 internationals on the field doesn't meant much if the other 7 aren't up to much cop!

It says a lot about Williams' power in the dressing room / how poor Mowbray thinks he is at LB for him not to start there last night - Rankin-Costello is a talented player, but he's not a FB. He's been rinsed there all season.

As for the goal scoring - at the end of the day it's about service and the two wide players in our front three don't receive any. As long as they're contributing assists / holding the ball up, I don't worry how many goals they're scoring themselves. 

 

Gallagher is awful though.

[roversfan99]

27 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I'm the last person to defend Mowbray on this board, but unfortunately it's a team game - having 4 internationals on the field doesn't meant much if the other 7 aren't up to much cop!

It says a lot about Williams' power in the dressing room / how poor Mowbray thinks he is at LB for him not to start there last night - Rankin-Costello is a talented player, but he's not a FB. He's been rinsed there all season.

As for the goal scoring - at the end of the day it's about service and the two wide players in our front three don't receive any. As long as they're contributing assists / holding the ball up, I don't worry how many goals they're scoring themselves. 

 

Gallagher is awful though.

I disagree that goalscoring is all about service, obviously it plays a part but poor strikers dont get into goalscoring positions. I think we need the wider 2 (assuming we continue to play this formation which im not sure is wise) to start scoring goals because we are reliant solely on Armstrong. Brereton is the perfect example of a player who is always on his heels rather than anticipating bits and pieces around the penalty box and it is so infuriating.

You mention hold up play though quite rightly as some of Gallaghers last night was appalling.

[joey_big_nose]

Does anyone know who is likely to be fit this weekend? We really need back (out of those who have a reasonable chance), in order of importance - Kaminski, Armstrong, Williams, Douglas or Bell, Johnson. 

Reckon if we can get at least Kaminski, Armstrong and one of Williams or Douglas or Bell we can go in with some confidence.

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Does anyone know who is likely to be fit this weekend? We really need back (out of those who have a reasonable chance), in order of importance - Kaminski, Armstrong, Williams, Douglas or Bell, Johnson. 

Reckon if we can get at least Kaminski, Armstrong and one of Williams or Douglas or Bell we can go in with some confidence.

Arma is surely even more important than Kaminski. We simply are not scoring with him out along with Dack.

[roversfan99]

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/november/injury-update-tom-trybull--derrick-williams/

Bell and Johnson potentially back this weekend, not sure they will make much difference really.

[joey_big_nose]

22 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Arma is surely even more important than Kaminski. We simply are not scoring with him out along with Dack.

I disagree. Kaminski in there and we can move 20 yards up the pitch and be a lot more effective attacking and allround. Still ideally you want both obviously.

[joey_big_nose]

17 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/november/injury-update-tom-trybull--derrick-williams/

Bell and Johnson potentially back this weekend, not sure they will make much difference really.

Bad news about Kaminski....

Bell would be a big improvement over JRC at left back imo.

Only really need one of Johnson, Evans, Trybull for the holding role. If I had to pick I would go for Johnson as he offers a goal threat, height and physicality. I've been a bit non plussed by Trybull. Tidy enough but doesn't really press or offer much physicality and is fond of sideways and back passing. Needs to work a lot harder for me and pass forward more.

[roversfan99]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

Bad news about Kaminski....

Bell would be a big improvement over JRC at left back imo.

Only really need one of Johnson, Evans, Trybull for the holding role. If I had to pick I would go for Johnson as he offers a goal threat, height and physicality. I've been a bit non plussed by Trybull. Tidy enough but doesn't really press or offer much physicality and is fond of sideways and back passing. Needs to work a lot harder for me and pass forward more.

Definitely wouldnt play Johnson in the holding role, for me it highlights his weaknesses on the ball (as it did for the Forest winner) and he is incapable of taking the ball on the half turn. Would play him in one of the 2 more advanced midfield roles if we are to continue with the 433 for this weekend, he gives us a goal threat which we need. Your comments on Trybull I totally agree with, has given the ball away a few times and looked quite ponderous. We might have to resort to Evans in front of the back 4 who did well when he came on in a much more familiar role.

Not sure at left back. Rankin Costello isnt comfortable there but Bell is consistently poor so a flip of a coin there really. Rothwells absence has been overhyped but I wouldnt mind him coming in from the left, Elliott right and either of the 12m forwards, equally impotent really. Wharton in for Williams. It is a tough selection for a critical game.

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2020/november/injury-update-tom-trybull--derrick-williams/

Bell and Johnson potentially back this weekend, not sure they will make much difference really.

Even Downing isn’t fit. Another great bit of business.

Get an inspiring manager in and watch that treatment room empty itself.

Patience is running thin.

[arbitro]

8 hours ago, Exiled_Rover said:

I'm the last person to defend Mowbray on this board, but unfortunately it's a team game - having 4 internationals on the field doesn't meant much if the other 7 aren't up to much cop!

It says a lot about Williams' power in the dressing room / how poor Mowbray thinks he is at LB for him not to start there last night - Rankin-Costello is a talented player, but he's not a FB. He's been rinsed there all season.

As for the goal scoring - at the end of the day it's about service and the two wide players in our front three don't receive any. As long as they're contributing assists / holding the ball up, I don't worry how many goals they're scoring themselves. 

 

Gallagher is awful though.

Natural goalscorers are instinctive, they have an uncanny knack of being in the right place at the right time. Aside from the four internationals we had Trybull who played in the PL last season and two players who cost around £12m who Mowbray bought.