TRANSFER THREAD - JANUARY 2021

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

It's not? I get we are talking about back up but to suggest either are adequate back up at rb is very low standards indeed. I get Nayambe is our RB and the reserve won't be as good. However there are still certain levels that they need to reach. And neither of them do as both are liabilities at rb. 

I meant it's not a debate. JRC is next in line

Edited January 15, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[bluebruce]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Thanks. No club quotes but there aren't usually about contract details. Hope to fuck it's true!

I was thinking whilst reading that article, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if he leaves to an English club this summer and we don't activate the clause, we are due compensation as he is under 24. But if we extend his deal and he left next summer for free, he will be 24, so due nothing? Though I can't remember if it is under 24, or 24 and under.

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Thanks. No club quotes but there aren't usually about contract details. Hope to fuck it's true!

I was thinking whilst reading that article, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if he leaves to an English club this summer and we don't activate the clause, we are due compensation as he is under 24. But if we extend his deal and he left next summer for free, he will be 24, so due nothing? Though I can't remember if it is under 24, or 24 and under.

I dont know

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, bluebruce said:

Thanks. No club quotes but there aren't usually about contract details. Hope to fuck it's true!

I was thinking whilst reading that article, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if he leaves to an English club this summer and we don't activate the clause, we are due compensation as he is under 24. But if we extend his deal and he left next summer for free, he will be 24, so due nothing? Though I can't remember if it is under 24, or 24 and under.

I would say there is no doubt we will take up the option for 12 months. So If he doesn't sign a new deal after that, he will be sold in January. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Guest]

Realistic expectations need setting. Everton fans will have rave reviews because he’s a young lad and he’s theirs.

Branthwaite is not a world class defender. This isn’t Harvey Elliott. I have spent the best part of a day scouting him, going through his games at Everton and Carlisle and watching his video footage.

He’s a more than competent defender, good in the air and positions himself really well for blocks and interceptions. However, unlike Tosin, his ball playing abilities aren’t incredible.

Branthwaite by all accounts is a sideways, backwards or hoof it forward player really. He will help us defensively, but especially when paired with Bell at any stage, we’re really going to struggle to play out from the back at all from the left.

Cedric Kipre has more experience, but his data leaves a lot to be desired. He’s below average in the air for the Championship and his ball playing is also very traditional.

We need/needed bodies, and for me that’s what they are.

[Herbie6590]

From Matt Jansen’s ghost-writer

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/news/18879841.special-report-making-cumbrian-premier-league-star/

https://www.newsandstar.co.uk/sport/19014450.blackburn-rovers-boss-explains-moved-evertons-former-carlisle-united-star-jarrad-branthwaite/

 

[Blue blood]

53 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I meant it's not a debate. JRC is next in line

Ah right, that makes sense! Apologies I misread your post. Yeah JRC is better than both those options although I think I prefer him a bit further forward myself. 

 

[USABlue]

38 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I would say there is no doubt we will take up the option for 12 months. So If he doesn't sign a new deal after that, he will be sold in January. 

Only way Nyambe is sticking around is if Mowbray doesn't

[rigger]

1 minute ago, USABlue said:

Only way Nyambe is sticking around is if Mowbray doesn't

That could apply to quite a few fans as well.

[roversfan99]

32 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Realistic expectations need setting. Everton fans will have rave reviews because he’s a young lad and he’s theirs.

Branthwaite is not a world class defender. This isn’t Harvey Elliott. I have spent the best part of a day scouting him, going through his games at Everton and Carlisle and watching his video footage.

He’s a more than competent defender, good in the air and positions himself really well for blocks and interceptions. However, unlike Tosin, his ball playing abilities aren’t incredible.

Branthwaite by all accounts is a sideways, backwards or hoof it forward player really. He will help us defensively, but especially when paired with Bell at any stage, we’re really going to struggle to play out from the back at all from the left.

Cedric Kipre has more experience, but his data leaves a lot to be desired. He’s below average in the air for the Championship and his ball playing is also very traditional.

We need/needed bodies, and for me that’s what they are.

Data for defenders has very limited use. Kipre was a key reason for the improvement in the second half of the season for Wigan last season, he became a regular and they repeatedly kept keeping clean sheets. Whether he made less "interceptions" less "forward passes" less "tackles" etc is of limited use, and from numerous factors, for example, a better reader of the game will make less tackles. I saw Kipre at this level quite a few times and he was very assured.

I am amazed that there was even a day worth of footage for Braithwaite to go over. Ultimately he played 9 games at League 2 level which is obviously not very good, then 4 games in dead rubbers for Everton. Again, the data is surely almost worthless in comparing a player who played a couple of seasons in the Championship, v a player with 9 League 2 games and 4 Premier League games making up his stats!

None of our centre backs can use the ball very well, it makes no sense to play out from the back in that way.

He may prove to be a good loan signing, we do need at least one new centre back, he signed one who is made of glass, he rejected offers for another who has never been very good and again is made of glass, and a fourth one who Mowbray was unsure on who played well a couple of times before an unfortunate long term injury. If we are unable to afford Crewe players, we are seemingly in a market whereby we have to compare and take a calculated risk on an untested kid on a temporary basis with precious little to base that decision on as they wont have played much mens football between them. Its a wait and see job but its difficult to get excited over.

And Harvey Elliott is good, but he certainly isnt world class.

4 hours ago, RoversClitheroe said:

At least Buckleys mistakes didn't lead to goals.

The same can't be said for Bennett and Douglas.

He has only played there a couple of times, where he looks even less competent than in midfield, but it was his poor defending that led to the Canos goal at Brentford.

[Bigdoggsteel]

56 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Data for defenders has very limited use. Kipre was a key reason for the improvement in the second half of the season for Wigan last season, he became a regular and they repeatedly kept keeping clean sheets. Whether he made less "interceptions" less "forward passes" less "tackles" etc is of limited use, and from numerous factors, for example, a better reader of the game will make less tackles. I saw Kipre at this level quite a few times and he was very assured.

I am amazed that there was even a day worth of footage for Braithwaite to go over. Ultimately he played 9 games at League 2 level which is obviously not very good, then 4 games in dead rubbers for Everton. Again, the data is surely almost worthless in comparing a player who played a couple of seasons in the Championship, v a player with 9 League 2 games and 4 Premier League games making up his stats!

None of our centre backs can use the ball very well, it makes no sense to play out from the back in that way.

He may prove to be a good loan signing, we do need at least one new centre back, he signed one who is made of glass, he rejected offers for another who has never been very good and again is made of glass, and a fourth one who Mowbray was unsure on who played well a couple of times before an unfortunate long term injury. If we are unable to afford Crewe players, we are seemingly in a market whereby we have to compare and take a calculated risk on an untested kid on a temporary basis with precious little to base that decision on as they wont have played much mens football between them. Its a wait and see job but its difficult to get excited over.

And Harvey Elliott is good, but he certainly isnt world class.

He has only played there a couple of times, where he looks even less competent than in midfield, but it was his poor defending that led to the Canos goal at Brentford.

You're hellbent on undermining the signing, but in your usual style you pepper a few comments in to cover yourself in case he turns out to be class. 

4 premier League games at 18, at centre half, is very impressive. For a team in the top 4 no less, selected by one of the world's great managers. Undermine that all you like, but most people can see the reality of the situation. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Vilesinner]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Bizzare logic. Buckley is the worst of the 3 at right back. Imagine him trying to defend against a good winger, god almighty. 

Don't misunderstand that I am saying Bennett or Douglas are good rights backs. 

He did, when we were down to 10 men against Brentford, and did pretty well.

Definitely wasn't his fault for the goal. 

Still he's an attacking midfielder imo.

[Vilesinner]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Data for defenders has very limited use. Kipre was a key reason for the improvement in the second half of the season for Wigan last season, he became a regular and they repeatedly kept keeping clean sheets. Whether he made less "interceptions" less "forward passes" less "tackles" etc is of limited use, and from numerous factors, for example, a better reader of the game will make less tackles. I saw Kipre at this level quite a few times and he was very assured.

I am amazed that there was even a day worth of footage for Braithwaite to go over. Ultimately he played 9 games at League 2 level which is obviously not very good, then 4 games in dead rubbers for Everton. Again, the data is surely almost worthless in comparing a player who played a couple of seasons in the Championship, v a player with 9 League 2 games and 4 Premier League games making up his stats!

None of our centre backs can use the ball very well, it makes no sense to play out from the back in that way.

He may prove to be a good loan signing, we do need at least one new centre back, he signed one who is made of glass, he rejected offers for another who has never been very good and again is made of glass, and a fourth one who Mowbray was unsure on who played well a couple of times before an unfortunate long term injury. If we are unable to afford Crewe players, we are seemingly in a market whereby we have to compare and take a calculated risk on an untested kid on a temporary basis with precious little to base that decision on as they wont have played much mens football between them. Its a wait and see job but its difficult to get excited over.

And Harvey Elliott is good, but he certainly isnt world class.

He has only played there a couple of times, where he looks even less competent than in midfield, but it was his poor defending that led to the Canos goal at Brentford.

No it wasn't. Buckley tracked the overlapping player. It was the other players fault.

Buckley did very well in that game.

[roversfan99]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You're hellbent on undermining the signing, but in your usual style you pepper a few comments in to cover yourself in case he turns out to be class. 

4 premier League games at 18, at centre half, is very impressive. For a team in the top 4 no less, selected by one of the world's great managers. Undermine that all you like, but most people can see the reality of the situation. 

You seem to be hell bent on pointing out "pessimism" as you often are but its hardly as if I undermine every signing. Elliott was a signing that excited me, Ayala seemed to fit the bill of what I wanted(in retrospect due diligence on fitness wasnt done), Douglas wasnt my first choice but I was happy at an upgrade on Bell, Kaminski I had never seen but certainly didnt undermine, Trybull seemed a decent addition, I was happy with the summer business. Kipre I was very excited about but we didnt get it over the line. Sadly the recruitment not improved us but at the time I was positive so your impression is false.

I havent even said that it is a bad signing, just an underwheming one. That is more based on the situation rather than the individual. A temporary addition of an 18 year old with barely any senior experience is not one that gives me great confidence that it will make a major difference to keeping our goals against column down. The manager is the main reason for that and having said last week you wanted a change, im sure youll empathise. Financially it seems that the only market we can deal in is kids on loan, and I acknowledged that maybe the nominal experience he does have does put him ahead of some of the alternatives mentioned ie Harwood Bellis and Van Den Berg. But its more the market we are in, the inability over a long term period for the manager to organise the defence, the league position, the already forlorn hope of meeting our target this season and maybe even not being able to attend that causes me to be underwhelmed.

In regards to my comments on data, I have regularly been of that opinion since the recent fad has grown whereby many on social media show various graphs and tables. With defenders especially I question their worth, with attackers goals and to a lesser extent assists are much more useful but even then things like progressive runs and expected goals are not something I take personal notice of. Again, that isnt something I do purposely to undermine Mowbray or Rovers. Kipre and Ayala ranked poorly on such "metrics" but I knew having seen them play (the doubt around Ayala was capability and reliability after injuries which has been proven) that they are both good defenders at this level. I feel that sometimes people place too much stock in such stats to the extent that they are viewed as matter of fact proof.

The irony in regards to my hell bent desire to undermine everything the club does lays in your constant desperation to undermine the top scorer in the league who currently resides here.

[Lucimo]

13 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Bad news on Bennett then......

Well that other arrival is somewhat underwhelming 

[Exiled_Rover]

It is a wonder that Mowbray is happy to throw these PL teenagers into the fray, but had to have a gun placed to his head to play Travis, Nyambe, JRC, Wharton, Davenport and Buckley.

He refers to them as 'young lads' when they're a quarter through their professional careers - they're in their early 20s. 

Baffling man manager. Baffling man. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Exiled_Rover

[davulsukur]

The other kid we have pinched from PNE reserves(Joe Nolan) has signed a pro deal with us.

[roversfan99]

Im unconvinced that there is a consistent criticism to be had for Mowbray's treatment across the board. I do think for some of these players there is criticism to be made but I think equally there is perhaps some praise to be given.

On Travis, he gets some unfair stick. He came in and did well for the three games that Smallwood was suspended in but he could have easily reverted back to the limited but experienced player. Travis has played basically every single game possible ever since and I think any talk of him stunting his development is totally unfair.

Nyambe is a more complex one. Most of the time he has been first choice,  but there was a decent sized spell to which Bennett was preferred despite never showing competence there. There was a game at Millwall in which Mowbray publically said that he dropped him for "lacking confidence" before putting him back in. There was also a couple of games in which Rankin Costello despite being inferior was preferred. There has also been the inability to get him to sign a new deal. So there has been plenty of game time and obvious improvement but also some scope for criticism.

As for the others, the signing of Davenport has been particularly curious. Wharton has been loaned surprisingly with success (unlike many others loaned out) and had he started this season in the first team, we would have correctly questioned recruitment. After recovering from concussion, he was also preferred to a fit Ayala before getting his injury. I think with Wharton again there seemed to be a plan and some unfortunate luck. Rankin Costello has probably played as much if not slightly more than his performances have merited, and Buckley has played far more than any promise shown. I feel like Mowbrays faults and limitations lie elsewhere in the main.

[Vilesinner]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Im unconvinced that there is a consistent criticism to be had for Mowbray's treatment across the board. I do think for some of these players there is criticism to be made but I think equally there is perhaps some praise to be given.

On Travis, he gets some unfair stick. He came in and did well for the three games that Smallwood was suspended in but he could have easily reverted back to the limited but experienced player. Travis has played basically every single game possible ever since and I think any talk of him stunting his development is totally unfair.

Nyambe is a more complex one. Most of the time he has been first choice,  but there was a decent sized spell to which Bennett was preferred despite never showing competence there. There was a game at Millwall in which Mowbray publically said that he dropped him for "lacking confidence" before putting him back in. There was also a couple of games in which Rankin Costello despite being inferior was preferred. There has also been the inability to get him to sign a new deal. So there has been plenty of game time and obvious improvement but also some scope for criticism.

As for the others, the signing of Davenport has been particularly curious. Wharton has been loaned surprisingly with success (unlike many others loaned out) and had he started this season in the first team, we would have correctly questioned recruitment. After recovering from concussion, he was also preferred to a fit Ayala before getting his injury. I think with Wharton again there seemed to be a plan and some unfortunate luck. Rankin Costello has probably played as much if not slightly more than his performances have merited, and Buckley has played far more than any promise shown. I feel like Mowbrays faults and limitations lie elsewhere in the main.

As much as I like Nyambe..JRC is far superior at passing, and was a big part of all our big wins.

[roversfan99]

2 minutes ago, Vilesinner said:

As much as I like Nyambe..JRC is far superior at passing, and was a big part of all our big wins.

He is not a competent right back defensively though. In those games he wasnt tested defensively but if you cant defend one on one you shouldnt be a full back. Well, indeed he isnt.

[Bigdoggsteel]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You seem to be hell bent on pointing out "pessimism" as you often are but its hardly as if I undermine every signing. Elliott was a signing that excited me, Ayala seemed to fit the bill of what I wanted(in retrospect due diligence on fitness wasnt done), Douglas wasnt my first choice but I was happy at an upgrade on Bell, Kaminski I had never seen but certainly didnt undermine, Trybull seemed a decent addition, I was happy with the summer business. Kipre I was very excited about but we didnt get it over the line. Sadly the recruitment not improved us but at the time I was positive so your impression is false.

I havent even said that it is a bad signing, just an underwheming one. That is more based on the situation rather than the individual. A temporary addition of an 18 year old with barely any senior experience is not one that gives me great confidence that it will make a major difference to keeping our goals against column down. The manager is the main reason for that and having said last week you wanted a change, im sure youll empathise. Financially it seems that the only market we can deal in is kids on loan, and I acknowledged that maybe the nominal experience he does have does put him ahead of some of the alternatives mentioned ie Harwood Bellis and Van Den Berg. But its more the market we are in, the inability over a long term period for the manager to organise the defence, the league position, the already forlorn hope of meeting our target this season and maybe even not being able to attend that causes me to be underwhelmed.

In regards to my comments on data, I have regularly been of that opinion since the recent fad has grown whereby many on social media show various graphs and tables. With defenders especially I question their worth, with attackers goals and to a lesser extent assists are much more useful but even then things like progressive runs and expected goals are not something I take personal notice of. Again, that isnt something I do purposely to undermine Mowbray or Rovers. Kipre and Ayala ranked poorly on such "metrics" but I knew having seen them play (the doubt around Ayala was capability and reliability after injuries which has been proven) that they are both good defenders at this level. I feel that sometimes people place too much stock in such stats to the extent that they are viewed as matter of fact proof.

The irony in regards to my hell bent desire to undermine everything the club does lays in your constant desperation to undermine the top scorer in the league who currently resides here.

Certain things Armstrong did spoke for themselves. Many posters agreed. I called it like it was. It's wasnt undermining him. I also give him plenty of credit when it's due. So unlucky, try again. 

I must have missed all that positivity you were showing. I must have been serving my underserved ban at that point 🤣

[Vilesinner]

57 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

He is not a competent right back defensively though. In those games he wasnt tested defensively but if you cant defend one on one you shouldnt be a full back. Well, indeed he isnt.

He's our best attacking right back and our best left back; he's clearly competent.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

He's our best attacking right back and our best left back; he's clearly competent.

Nyambe is far better defensively, Rankin Costello cannot really defend and that is the primary need for a defender so I would question the competence line, but even going forward, Nyambe whilst it very much being a work in progress purely via his athleticism has started to assist goals this season, v Bournemouth, v Barnsley and v Norwich, as well as a great cross for Gallagher v Swansea in the last home game last season before lockdown.

Best left back is not a compliment with our squad but I would probably go for Douglas, just. That is again not an insult to Rankin Costello as he is blatantly not a full back, never mind a left sided one.

[Vilesinner]

10 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Nyambe is far better defensively, Rankin Costello cannot really defend and that is the primary need for a defender so I would question the competence line, but even going forward, Nyambe whilst it very much being a work in progress purely via his athleticism has started to assist goals this season, v Bournemouth, v Barnsley and v Norwich, as well as a great cross for Gallagher v Swansea in the last home game last season before lockdown.

Best left back is not a compliment with our squad but I would probably go for Douglas, just. That is again not an insult to Rankin Costello as he is blatantly not a full back, never mind a left sided one.

JRC is a footballer though. He make the right pass at the right time.

Of course Nyambe is our best defender.

[rigger]

1 hour ago, Vilesinner said:

He's our best attacking right back and our best left back; he's clearly competent.

he is our only "attacking right back". He is not our best left-back (Thompson ). He is just one that Mowbray seems to like in the team. I can at times see that an attacking player pushed further up field against certain teams would be a good, plan B. Plan A should always be start with your strongest defenders, in defence.