TRANSFER THREAD - JANUARY 2021

[Admiral Nelsen]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:20, JHRover said:

I'm afraid when I scrutinise things the only conclusion I am coming round to is that Mowbray isn't the only conductor of our transfer business. 

Only last week he was again publicly stating in his interviews that he wasn't keen on the loan market as a solution and that he wanted to get permanent transfers in to build on and have as assets. That was off the back of the Branthwaite deal and now fast forward a week or so and here we are doing similar again.

 

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Without wanting to go through each of TM's interviews on the subject, hasn't he usually caveated his preference for permanent deals with a 'sometimes the budget can only cover a loan', or for Tosin/Elliott 'we can only get players of this standard on loan.'

 

Doesn't seem to me like there's too much evidence of Mowbray being cut out of transfer dealings. 

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:20, JHRover said:

I'm afraid when I scrutinise things the only conclusion I am coming round to is that Mowbray isn't the only conductor of our transfer business. 

Only last week he was again publicly stating in his interviews that he wasn't keen on the loan market as a solution and that he wanted to get permanent transfers in to build on and have as assets. That was off the back of the Branthwaite deal and now fast forward a week or so and here we are doing similar again.

I don't believe in coincidences like this. I believe Mowbray uses the press to get messages out to the fans and more importantly to India. Same thing happens when it comes to new contracts- he's sending messages to the owners about how they need to sort contracts out quickly, and also how we cannot as a club rely on the loan market.

Unfortunately they seem to enjoy the short termism and high turnover in players. 

Of course if a couple of decent loans propel us into promotion or bring in quality like Harvey Elliott, who we wouldn't have a cat in hells chance of doing better than on a permanent deal, then its worth doing as a means to an end. But medium to long term we need the defence in particular addressing. A turnover in personnel every 6 months is unnecessary and unhelpful. I also refuse to accept that we can't find a defence of good Championship quality without the loan market.

 

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The signings certainly don't match his comments. He has previously said that you can't build a team through loans yet if Bellis signs then he has the full quota of 5 loans. He talks about building and being on a journey yet short loan signings point in the complete opposite direction and towards short termism. 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:32, Ewood Ace said:

The signings certainly don't match his comments. He has previously said that you can't build a team through loans yet if Bellis signs then he has the full quota of 5 loans. He talks about building and being on a journey yet short loan signings point in the complete opposite direction and towards short termism. 

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All depends on what is happening at youth level - a good example may be Wharton - where he has been allowed to develop while we bring in short term deals to give us time.

[JHRover]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:32, Ewood Ace said:

The signings certainly don't match his comments. He has previously said that you can't build a team through loans yet if Bellis signs then he has the full quota of 5 loans. He talks about building and being on a journey yet short loan signings point in the complete opposite direction and towards short termism. 

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The other part of it is that with the exception of Trybull all the loans are or will be cornerstones of our team. Heavily dependent on them. First choice and best LB, first choice CB, first choice CB back up when the inevitable injury comes and our most creative talent. All on loan. 

All the best managers and teams get a settled stable back line and build off that platform. 

4 years and 8 transfer windows in and we're still making do until the summer at CB and LB. 

[neophox]

Strange this with Kipre...

[TruRover]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:12, Ewood Ace said:

The trouble is come the end of the season they will be gone and we will be back to square one needing more defensive signings. Tony Mowbray once said you can't build a team through loan's yet he seems to think he can build a defence through them. Unless the loan signings get us promoted then they haven't been successful signings for us, the only two parties they are a success for are the player and his parent club. For a manager who talks about building and a journey it is very short sighted.

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While I agree with you in regards to loans signings, I don’t believe we are in that situation. 

Let’s break down our loans:

- Trybull. Clearly a decent player and a upgrade on Evans, but has been far from integral to our season and I doubt he will be missed when his loan comes to an end. Along with this we have a significant amount of central midfielders at the club

- Douglas. Finally starting to show a bit of form and hopefully can carry that into the 2nd half of the season. However he has been relatively poor for us so far, and we seemed to have signed a long term replacement for the beginning of next season in Pickering. Him leaving will not be an issue.

- Braithwaith and Harwood Bells. Both seem to be great prospects and should give us some really good depth in that position, which we have lacked this season. For sure when they go back to their parent clubs next season we will need to sign proper first team centre back, but even then we will have 3 very decent centre backs in Wharton, lenihan, and Ayala. And who knows, we may be able to get one of them back on loan next season.

- Harvey Elliot. Surely no one can complain about this loan. Has been one of our best players this season and will surely end up winning young player of the year. Unless we get promoted I can’t see us getting him back, which will leave us a little short in the winger department. However by next season Dolan will have had a full season of first team football in the bank and should be able to step up. He certainly looks like he has the ability. Either way though I would imagine we would go out and get a winger. 
 

Overall, when our loans go back we won’t be left too short, with Pickering signing for next season, we will only really need 1 centre back and 1 winger to cover the loans of this season. 
 

Having 5 loans this season isn’t ideal, and it’s a trap we mustn’t fall into, but in the case of our loans this season I can’t see them leaving us with the need of an overhaul. This seasons we have been massively hit by injuries, and loans are the best way to cover that. At least we seem to be bringing in quality.

one thing I have say is very pleasing, is how venkys have been so supportive in terms of transfer dealings. I’m far from there biggest fan, and I don’t think I’ll ever forgive them for everything, but their financial support through the pandemic has been outstanding. If only we had a top tier manager to make the most of it...

let’s hope that we get these deals over the line and continue our push towards the playoffs.

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:41, neophox said:

Strange this with Kipre...

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Why? HB is cheaper apparently. 

[davulsukur]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:41, neophox said:

Strange this with Kipre...

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What's strange?

[Gav]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:32, Ewood Ace said:

The signings certainly don't match his comments. He has previously said that you can't build a team through loans yet if Bellis signs then he has the full quota of 5 loans. He talks about building and being on a journey yet short loan signings point in the complete opposite direction and towards short termism. 

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If the goal is to reach the Premiership - It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.

 

   

[roversinmyblood]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:47, TruRover said:

While I agree with you in regards to loans signings, I don’t believe we are in that situation. 

Let’s break down our loans:

- Trybull. Clearly a decent player and a upgrade on Evans, but has been far from integral to our season and I doubt he will be missed when his loan comes to an end. Along with this we have a significant amount of central midfielders at the club

- Douglas. Finally starting to show a bit of form and hopefully can carry that into the 2nd half of the season. However he has been relatively poor for us so far, and we seemed to have signed a long term replacement for the beginning of next season in Pickering. Him leaving will not be an issue.

- Braithwaith and Harwood Bells. Both seem to be great prospects and should give us some really good depth in that position, which we have lacked this season. For sure when they go back to their parent clubs next season we will need to sign proper first team centre back, but even then we will have 3 very decent centre backs in Wharton, lenihan, and Ayala. And who knows, we may be able to get one of them back on loan next season.

- Harvey Elliot. Surely no one can complain about this loan. Has been one of our best players this season and will surely end up winning young player of the year. Unless we get promoted I can’t see us getting him back, which will leave us a little short in the winger department. However by next season Dolan will have had a full season of first team football in the bank and should be able to step up. He certainly looks like he has the ability. Either way though I would imagine we would go out and get a winger. 
 

Overall, when our loans go back we won’t be left too short, with Pickering signing for next season, we will only really need 1 centre back and 1 winger to cover the loans of this season. 
 

Having 5 loans this season isn’t ideal, and it’s a trap we mustn’t fall into, but in the case of our loans this season I can’t see them leaving us with the need of an overhaul. This seasons we have been massively hit by injuries, and loans are the best way to cover that. At least we seem to be bringing in quality.

one thing I have say is very pleasing, is how venkys have been so supportive in terms of transfer dealings. I’m far from there biggest fan, and I don’t think I’ll ever forgive them for everything, but their financial support through the pandemic has been outstanding. If only we had a top tier manager to make the most of it...

let’s hope that we get these deals over the line and continue our push towards the playoffs.

 

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Totally agree, the CH loans are only there to cover a disaster of an injury crisis in that position. It will also set us up well for any future star player loans. We can’t afford to buy quality permanent signings so it serves us well to get these players in. If our youngsters were currently good enough they would be playing. They still need to develop further before they can play in the first team. If Pickering is an upgrade he should be playing for helping us get promoted rather than being loaned back. 

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:55, Gav said:

If the goal is to reach the Premiership - It doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there.

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You think we will reach the Premier League this season with these loan signings? Because I don't and if we don't then the loan signings haven't been a success for the club all we have done is helped develop another clubs player.

[chaddyrovers]

  On 01/02/2021 at 10:12, Ewood Ace said:

The trouble is come the end of the season they will be gone and we will be back to square one needing more defensive signings. Tony Mowbray once said you can't build a team through loan's yet he seems to think he can build a defence through them. Unless the loan signings get us promoted then they haven't been successful signings for us, the only two parties they are a success for are the player and his parent club. For a manager who talks about building and a journey it is very short sighted.

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How are back to square one? We will need a couple of signings that's it. 

I disagree on loans signings not being success unless we get promote. 

Isnt Pickering signing good for the long term left back situation? 

 

[Kie_BRFC]

Personally don't see the harm in adding another centre back on loan. We've only got Darragh and Branthwaite as fit centre backs currently, and if this lad comes in and performs better than those 2 it can only be a good thing.

Also it gives Ayala time to get somewhat fit (not holding out much hope on that one).

Don't think we should be loaning Pickering back either, if he's going to be our left back for the next few years why not give him the chance to displace Douglas? On Douglas, he's been brilliant the last few games but we've seen he can be abysmal and injury prone. 

[chaddyrovers]

 

 

[RoversClitheroe]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:05, chaddyrovers said:

 

 

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Told you it was done Chaddy......

[chaddyrovers]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:07, RoversClitheroe said:

Told you it was done Chaddy......

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It's only done when he signs the contract and the deal is announce. 

[4000Holes]

So, if we have now got Pickering and also Douglas, is there any chance we can get England, Newton, Clayton and McEvoy?
 

sorry, couldn’t resist it.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:05, Kie_BRFC said:

Personally don't see the harm in adding another centre back on loan. We've only got Darragh and Branthwaite as fit centre backs currently, and if this lad comes in and performs better than those 2 it can only be a good thing.

Also it gives Ayala time to get somewhat fit (not holding out much hope on that one).

Don't think we should be loaning Pickering back either, if he's going to be our left back for the next few years why not give him the chance to displace Douglas? On Douglas, he's been brilliant the last few games but we've seen he can be abysmal and injury prone. 

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I think Douglas just needed to play himself into form and fitness 

 

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:04, chaddyrovers said:

I disagree on loans signings not being success unless we get promote. 

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Why do you disagree?

In Tony's own words loaning players becomes 'dead money' at the end of the season. 'This close' - Mowbray feels Rovers won't be far away this year | Lancashire Telegraph

He's also said "We might sit here at the end of the year having spent a million pound for instance on a player who is not even ours. Then he'll go back to his parent club, that money is down the drain and we finish mid-table. Blackburn Rovers encounter loan market complications as Tony Mowbray looks to bolster his squad - LancsLive

You also 'can't build a club of loans' according to Tony. 'You can't build a club off loans' - Tony Mowbray's final interview as Sky Blues boss issues parting shots - CoventryLive (coventrytelegraph.net)

 

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:04, chaddyrovers said:

How are back to square one? We will need a couple of signings that's it. 

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Because come the summer we will need at least 1 probably 2 centre backs just like last summer, we will need at least one left back unless Bell contract is extended and I'd hope we aren't going to do that.  And we will also need at least one right back, which will become 2 if Nyambe goes. As with every summer under Mowbray the defence will need a fair few signings and why is that the case every summer because he sorts the defensive issues through short term loans. 

[RV Blue]

The loan back thing for Pickering makes no sense, we need a left back now.

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:03, Ewood Ace said:

You think we will reach the Premier League this season with these loan signings? Because I don't and if we don't then the loan signings haven't been a success for the club all we have done is helped develop another clubs player.

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If there isn't money to sign players permanently ,what's the alternative? We just don't sign loan players? That's called cutting off your nose, to spite your face. 

[JBiz]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:07, RoversClitheroe said:

Told you it was done Chaddy......

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Article said it had been done since Saturday and all they’re sorting right now is the loan back.

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:18, RV Blue said:

The loan back thing for Pickering makes no sense, we need a left back now.

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Douglas and bell till the end of the season - also was a big part of getting it done (the loan back) according to Lt

[Bigdoggsteel]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:18, RV Blue said:

The loan back thing for Pickering makes no sense, we need a left back now.

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We have 2. Douglas has been excellent last few games. They probably wouldn't have sold Pickering otherwise. We aren't loaning him back out of pure goodness and generosity. 

Will some fans every be able to move gears from the "he's rubbish" position on Douglas? Or will it become one of these narratives that is trotted out, even though it's not true anymore. There are many! 

Edited February 1, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:18, Bigdoggsteel said:

If there isn't money to sign players permanently ,what's the alternative? We just don't sign loan players?

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We do on centre backs. Four years in and Mowbray still hasn't spent a penny on a centre back. Is it any wonder that it has been a problem position for us for years now.

[Ewood Ace]

  On 01/02/2021 at 11:20, Bigdoggsteel said:

Will some fans every be able to move gears from the "he's rubbish" position on Douglas? Or will it become one of these narratives that is trotted out, even though it's not true anymore. There are many! 

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He's had one half decent game against a very cautious Luton side. At Middlesbrough he was poor.