The Contract Situation

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, ben_the_beast said:

Good to see him signed up. Mini-moan now. Could be any reason as to why it's only for 3 years. But again it follows the trend of being slightly on the short side.

3 years is a good contract in the Championship. You only get 4 years if you hail from Middleboro and can't get in the team.

[LDRover]

4 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

You have named it there, Rev.

"To be fair to the owners, would you give him any more money?"...and yet they leave him in post!!!!

It is just not credible for Venky's to hold both views at the same time.

Yet another argument for Venky's out, as far as I am concerned. I am sick of the club being mismanaged.

Totally agree. By keeping Mowbray in situ the owners should lose any benefit of the doubt they have ever been given.

[riverholmes]

Thomas Kaminski, Darragh Lenihan, Joe Rothwell, Ryan Nyambe, Jacob Davenport, Ben Brereton Diaz, Daniel Butterworth and Jordan Eastham are the players whose contracts expire in 2022, according to the site, Transfermarkt. In some cases, there may be unilateral one year extensions available to the club, to keep them until 2023. Such a clause was exercised with Harry Chapman, who will now likely leave in 2022. Players under 24, who leave on a free, might carry a compensation payment, if they reject a new contract, but the amounts are far from certain and often largely dependent on their future careers. 

Tony Mowbray said of Nyambe, Rothwell and Lenihan, in August this year, as reported in the LET: “For me, talking to the club, let’s get this window finished and see if we can address some of the situations, see where we are financially, and if we can’t offer new improved contracts then they are going to run."

A simplistic short-term view would suggest hang on to all these players until their contracts expire. However, for the long-term future of the club, we either need to sign them to new deals - without jeopardising the financial state of the club - or to recoup some income from some of the players, whilst retaining sufficient strength in the squad. I do not know the situation with Venky's and how much they're going to continue to sanction transfer fees but I don't trust them to continue long-term. Moreover, the global economic situation might press them to stop investing - if they are. (I have no idea how the transfer fees are currently being financed, so, perhaps, someone else can comment on that).

Last season, Mowbray had Evans, Bennett, Downing and Holtby sitting on the subs bench, especially, towards the end of the season, when fit. I mentioned before, at times, we had four or five central midfield players on the bench and no forwards, just to accommodate them. All of their contracts were expiring and it was known that most had no future at the club. For the planning for this season, it made no sense to have all of them there, at the expense of players we might have something to contribute and are developing, rather than being in the twilight of their careers. There was at least one occasion that there was no forward on the bench and Buckley was utilised as a false 9.

I would suggest a comparable scenario is arising now, with our loanee players, Khadra, Poveda, Clarkson and, eventually, van Hecke, set to be on the subs bench, having not established them yet as first teamers. I reserve judgment on all, as they are young and have had little opportunities. When they have come in, it's been into a team lacking structure, organisation and direction, so I can't blame them. Khadra has shown promise and I'm sure we'll turn to van Hecke.

However, if it becomes apparent that any of them are not going to contribute much to the present and Rovers have no interest in signing them, just like Evans & Co. they should not be sitting on the bench. It makes more sense to feature Butterworth to test his fitness and form and encourage him to sign on. Given the players that look to be leaving next summer, and the reality that we stand little chance of being promoted, the club must be planning for the future - whilst, always ensuring that the current team is strong and doing the best it can be doing.

For example, it may be hard to hold onto Kaminski and though he is vital to our team, if the club could earn a good transfer fee (perhaps £5 million plus?) in the summer, I'd suggest we should sell. However, it is a balancing act of recruitment, retentions and sales and maintaining a motivated and aspiring squad, which only those involved closely in the team have all the relevant information to make decisions upon. It would seem that we're losing Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe next year for nothing but we need to start acting for damage limitation and rebuilding.

Edit: Removed Hayden Carter from the list, as I see that he has signed to the club until 2024.

 

Edited October 3, 2021 by riverholmes

[chaddyrovers]

It vital we tied down Lenihan, Brereton, Nyambe, Kaminski, Travis and Eastham to new contracts and I would be looking a new long term contract for Sam Burns who I think will be star in the future. 

[chaddyrovers]

Mowbray on the contract situation from today's pre match conference

Every word Tony Mowbray said on Blackburn Rovers contract situation regarding key players - LancsLive

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray on the contract situation from today's pre match conference

Every word Tony Mowbray said on Blackburn Rovers contract situation regarding key players - LancsLive

It sounds like he wants a new deal too 😅

Is this really am issue with all clubs? We have a serious issue here and it's a pretty dumb one to be in. You give them a few extra thousand a week and you potentially make millions. It's in our interest to sign them up. It really doesn't sound good though....Surely Waggot should be explaining the economics of this to them? 

Does ffp come into this? We must be offering them peanuts. 

Edited October 18, 2021 by Bigdoggsteel

[chaddyrovers]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is this really am issue with all clubs? 

Here is list of out of contract for players in 2022. Maybe some have sign new contracts recently but most haven't. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB2

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You give them a few extra thousand a week and you potentially make millions. 

Maybe it's not all about money with these players. Who knows

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Does ffp come into this?

Wage bill does come into FFP and club accounts. 

Look at screenshot I've posted yesterday. Wages to Turnover was at 189% in 2019/20 season. 

https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/35108-v-qpr-a-tue-19th-oct/?do=findComment&comment=2252023

 

Edited October 18, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Bigdoggsteel]

5 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Here is list of out of contract for players in 2022. Maybe some have sign new contracts recently but most haven't. 

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/championship/endendevertraege/wettbewerb/GB2

Maybe it's not all about money with these players. Who knows

Wage bill does come into FFP and club accounts. 

Look at screenshot I've posted yesterday. Wages to Turnover was at 189% in 2019/20 season. 

https://www.brfcs.com/forums/topic/35108-v-qpr-a-tue-19th-oct/?do=findComment&comment=2252023

 

That 189% figure in isolation doesn't mean much and we are only staying competitive with that. It will always be an issue with the crowds and stadium size. 

I would imagine it's all about money. They ain't gonna move somewhere on less than we are offering. Do you think they would? Also let's say Lenihan wants to be top earner ,is that reasonable? 

[Miller11]

Stupid interview. I’ll summarise to save you reading…

States Nyambe played well but goes on to moan about his crossing rather than praise his near perfect defensive display.

Witters on a bit.

Asks whether new contracts will be agreed rather than answering the exact question that was posed to him, before blaming the pandemic.

Continues speaking his rambling thoughts by Asking a few more questions before referencing Brentford. However, he neglected to mention the goalkeeper he flogged them on the cheap who is currently topping plenty of the stat tables in the Premier League.

Says he hears supporters singing “sign him up” but he’s not sure who we are on about and besides, we aren’t privy to things that he is, and it’s difficult for the club at the moment.

Him, Waggott, Venus and Suhail discuss this on a weekly basis.

He finishes with an absolute gem!

”The most important thing is the club doesn’t get put in financial danger!”

Edited October 18, 2021 by Miller11

[tomphil]

He really is the undisputed waffle merchant.

Iv'e always baulked at comparisons to Kean but in terms of verbal diarrhea he's right up there with Coyle.

A billy bull hitter.

[JHRover]

Mowbray will have no problems getting himself and Venus new contracts.

I really am starting to detest him. I hoped this point would not come but it has.

Pretty obvious which way this is going. Players come and go but this oaf remains.

I note the article claims that Rovers are doing all they can - is this fact, opinion or what Mowbray says? Because I don't believe him.

Chaddy - you're falling right into their trap. 

If FFP is the issue here then how do you propose we replace these players with no money and no space on the wage bill? 

[tomphil]

Willing sellers, don't fall for the tripe this scenario has been on the cards all along.

Edited October 18, 2021 by tomphil

[chaddyrovers]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

That 189% figure in isolation doesn't mean much and we are only staying competitive with that. It will always be an issue with the crowds and stadium size. 

That sort of wage bill is completely and utterly unstainable compare to our turnover. Do you not agree?

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

 They ain't gonna move somewhere on less than we are offering. Do you think they would?  

No idea who is interested in any of those 3 players. I've seen an article that links Rangers, Bournemouth and couple of PL teams with Rothwell. 

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Also let's say Lenihan wants to be top earner ,is that reasonable? 

With him in prime as footballer and club captain not at all. 

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Chaddy - you're falling right into their trap. 

What trap would that be? Realising that's wage bill has to be realistic and sustainable.

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

If FFP is the issue here then how do you propose we replace these players with no money and no space on the wage bill? 

Well you can replace these players with new players on similar and similar fees we received

[JHRover]

9 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What trap would that be? Realising that's wage bill has to be realistic and sustainable.

Well you can replace these players with new players on similar and similar fees we received

The trap that the players are the villains of the piece for demanding too much, or that poor Rovers are being constrained by factors beyond their control and that Mowbray and co. are looking after the club by not sorting new deals out. In reality the polar opposite is happening - they are jeopardizing the club by risking and allowing our prized assets to leave for nothing. 

Take a look at our summer transfer business this year. You really seriously think this mob are capable of replacing Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell with better on the same money? You really think they will even be allowed to spend similar money? Fees received? They are leaving on free transfers so we won't get any fees to reinvest, but even if we did it will disappear like the Armstrong cash under the guise of FFP compliance. Convenient how FFP issues always come along as the sales start. 

Mowbray is a crafty operator I'll give him that. Quite clear which way he is steering the ship now it has become obvious that there won't be new contracts for these players. 

So the latest strategy is to play on supporters emotions - mention the club and financial danger in the same sentence and many fans will just roll with whatever as long as the club stays in business. Lower than a snakes belly but he'll go as low as it takes to absolve himself and his cronies of blame in the eyes of supporters. The same group of people who gave Ben Gladwin a contract for nothing and have squandered funds in needless contracts and deals.

Of course the elephant in the room is that losing prized assets for nothing actually causes more financial damage than it does agreeing to pay them more then selling them 12 months later or getting promoted - but we don't want to talk about that.

One question for you Chaddy whilst you are on your FFP obsession - does it not infuriate you that we are (supposedly) under extreme FFP restrictions and looking like losing prized assets for nothing because we can't pay them more when only 12 months or so ago this manager and his mates were dishing out contract extensions to Samuel, Leutwiler and Smallwood? You think that is acceptable?

Edited October 18, 2021 by JHRover

[Miller11]

13 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

What trap would that be? Realising that's wage bill has to be realistic and sustainable

For Gods sake Chaddy. Has this only just dawned on you? Because it’s been apparent to anyone with half a brain for a decade. Why are you making out this is an emerging problem that only you are smart enough to identify?

Almost as soon as Venky’s took over we began paying more in wages than we brought in. It’s never stopped and has got progressively worse. Our finances as horrendous, it’s not news to anybody. 

The club are being completely disingenuous blaming it on the pandemic, and anyone falling for it needs to have a long hard think.

We are now told that the COVID situation has created “unprecedented circumstances” for the club. Aside from the fact that EVERY CLUB IN THE WORLD has been hit to almost the same extent, having low revenues and high costs is hardly anything unprecedented for Rovers is it? In fact we are far better placed to deal with it than most clubs, being that we are “fortunate” enough to have owners who are wealthy, stubborn, and quite frankly daft enough to pour money into the bottomless pit they have created to the tune of £15-20 million a year.

And for all the whingeing that people now like to do about parachute payments, what about the financial doping that Venky’s have to do? Besides, it’s nobody else’s fault we pissed ours up the wall after relegation. While I’m at it, where on earth has this new notion that the only thing standing in the way of BRFC and promotion is those pesky FFP rules? What precedent have Venky’s set? What ambition have they ever shown to return Rovers to anywhere near the state we were in before they took over? And there’s loads of ways they could do this. Appointing decent managers and sacking underperforming ones would be a start.

@JHRoverhas nailed the current contract situation in the above post. If we paid Nyambe, Rothwell and Lenihan an extra 7k per week each it might mean we lose £18 million a year instead of £17 million, so what??

We’ve shed Evans, Holtby and Armstrong from last years wage bill that you seem so keen on talking about. All three of them would’ve been on more that those three out of contract players. Bennett and Downing will also have been on a significantly more than Nyambe and Rothwell currently earn or are being offered. Then there’s the money from Armstrong’s sale - which will put us clear of FFP sanctions, with change.

Stop trying to dress up what is going on as financial prudence, it’s nothing of the sort. It’s cost cutting, and it’s so unbelievably short-sighted and damaging in the long term.

[JHRover]

You can't use FFP as an excuse or as the boogeyman for our difficulties and issues and then at the same time allow first team academy products to walk away for nothing for failing to sort their contracts out.

The two are incompatible. If FFP is a genuine concern or problem then when you have assets on your hands you make sure they retain their value so that if sold you can smash FFP into the long grass for a while.

Mowbray likes his Brentford comparisons. When was the last time they let two, three or four of their prized assets walk away for nothing/knock down fees due to contractual issues?

[SoldierMo]

I detest this guy

[Silas]

46 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Mowbray likes his Brentford comparisons. When was the last time they let two, three or four of their prized assets walk away for nothing/knock down fees due to contractual issues?

Very good point. 

I'd love him to be asked questions like this when he rambles on about Brentford. 

[lraC]

3 hours ago, Silas said:

Very good point. 

I'd love him to be asked questions like this when he rambles on about Brentford. 

That’s the problem. He is never asked the questions that really need answers. If he really wants to know, who the fans are “singing’ about, it’s voices on his head, but the answer from this fan is all of them. Do not let any of them walk away from the club for nothing, as giving them a reasonable increase to keep them all, will pay off if just one is sold, for their real value. 

Just as a reminder to him too, when he arrived, one of his first tasks, was to try to persuade Connor Mahoney to sign his contract. He had also been offered a deal, that he obviously thought was not good enough. Yet again, nothing has changed, after all this time, so I wonder why? Furthermore, as another reminder, “This is Blackburn Rovers” who are still being treated like some sort of cash cow, by certain people. Yet again, this totally stinks. This £20 million being pumped in each year, my arse!!

[lraC]

Just to add a bit more meat to the bones, re the previous post, perhaps someone at the club, still has a reason for wanting certain players, have their contracts run down. It could be pure coincidence that it is a common theme, under this ownership, but with the link to the now defunct global eleven fund and a certain Italian Aristocrat, amongst some of the shenanigans, who knows what is still buried beneath the surface?

I know some people, want to believe otherwise, so for those, don’t bother reading the link, but for the open minded amongst us, read this link for a reminder, of things that were allegedly going on. Has much changed, as from where I am, I somehow suspect not.

http://roversrevisited2.blogspot.com/2016/09/good-money-if-you-can-get-it.html?m=1

[arbitro]

It's incredible that Mowbray is harping on about wages and money when in each of his four years here our spend versus income has been astronomical and contributed largely to put us in position we are in. The ridiculous contracts he and his cohorts awarded unreservedly have cost this club millions.

I wish some would wake up and see who the real villains are here.

[cesus]

23 minutes ago, arbitro said:

It's incredible that Mowbray is harping on about wages and money when in each of his four years here our spend versus income has been astronomical and contributed largely to put us in position we are in. The ridiculous contracts he and his cohorts awarded unreservedly have cost this club millions.

I wish some would wake up and see who the real villains are here.

This point and the ones covered by JH, Miller are all top points. I cannot read anything from press conferences as I am staggered that nobody has ever spun a question back on Mowbray. 

They have never asked about his ability to sign players to sell on for any profit "to ease then clubs financial burden" . They have never stated that doing right by players and offering the going rate with a release clause (so we make more than the grand sum of zero!) will surely long term have the club losing less money.

I'm sure somebody with more financial knowledge than me can clarify but surely the owners are not physically losing £18m a year, i.e they borrow the £18m at say 5% interest so the year costs them £900k. Obviously it has gone on for years so the annual cost is much higher, but surely if a manager was doing a decent job in the transfer market and bringing in £5-£10m a year which is not out of the question with decent scouting and a grade 1 academy. Why the hell is Mowbray still here as he seems to hit no obvious targets that any manager could be set other than to never blame the owners!

[Mattyblue]

You either want to compete at this level or you don’t.

If you can’t/won’t pay the going rate for the likes of Darragh Lenihan and believe the team will improve with a squad of academy grads, young lads brought in from the lower leagues and loanees, with minimal senior pros, then go for it, but don’t be surprised when we end up in the same division as Crewe and Lincoln.

[47er]

Its looking like everything we ever feared is coming to a climax. We can't (apparently) afford the wages of even reasonable Championship players anymore and we will lose the best ones as their contracts run down. The predators are circling.

Moreover, we can't rely on transfers out to buy decent replacements  because we let their contracts run down!

But the owners won't go! And the inept staff remain!

Ergo, nothing can be resolved. All we have to look forward to is further shrinking of the fan base and a perpetual decline in the standard of the playing squad and relegation.

The situation is a scandal and its utterly demoralising to be a Rovers fan right now.