The Contract Situation

[Silas]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

 It’s about bringing a bit of perspective to wrong information often posted on here and other forums.............

......As for reasons why ? It’s pure speculation and is the reason for the cause of so much disdain

The reasons are irrelevant to me, therefore so is any wrong information or rumours.

If the club doesn't manage to sign up players on new contracts who would be important assets to the club then it is a failure, full stop.

Of course you don't blow your salary cap, but this isn't one or two players, it's a handful of them. 

If all these players are not keen to sign up then there has to be 'a reason'. Could be money, ambition, bad atmosphere at club, manager, owners etc etc.

What does it matter? We're fans on a forum so obviously going to speculate, but really the actual reason(s) are immaterial, the only thing that matters is that they clearly exist.

Is there another club out there in the whole Football League potentially about to lose such a high percentage of their best starting 11 through contracts running out? 🤔

I genuinely don't know, but doubt there's many, if any. (Derby maybe).

Stinks of rank bad management from top to bottom and over an extended time period. 

Sorry, but no amount of "You don't know what I know!" is going to change my opinion on it currently. 

If a bombshell comes to light that clears it all up and makes me wrong I'll eat humble pie.

But at the moment, I'll stand by my anger at the situation, which is growing day by day.

And couldn't care less which rumours are true or BS. That's just like the "but we played well" argument. Counts for sod all if you don't get the result. And the result here is names on dotted lines.

[Exiled in Toronto]

17 minutes ago, Wheelton Blue said:

There will be once clubs realise they can get him for a song.

But only one can get him, so there would be competition. 

[Sparks Rover]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don't care if people dont accept my views.

I'll accept your views, but don't call them facts.👍

[Exiled in Toronto]

I think it’s mistake to assume that players share the same motivations and opinions as fans. Each of Lenihan, Rothwell and Nyambe will have their own reasons for holding out thus far, but I’d be amazed if high on all their lists is wanting to get away from Mowbray.

Lenihan - first name on the team sheet if fit in a Championship club. His next contract - combo of wage and length - will define the rest of his career income. I’m guessing he sees this is the one to make the jump from ex-youth player to going-rate player. Maybe he thinks if the Scottish gargoyle can be at a club that bounces from Championship to Prem and back again then so can he.  

Rothwell, now picked every game in what he says is his favoured position. Nearly 27, so this contract is now or never for him. Trouble is he does two things really well - running with the ball and set pieces - which just about contribute enough goals between them, but he’s rubbish defensively. So I’m not sure anyone better than us will play him as a starter in centre mid. He’ll no doubt shine running at the Arbroath defense and maybe if Rangers pay him enough that’s what he wants.

Nyambe, again does two things really well: running past players and stopping them running past him. But, against that he has an injury record and what I think is one weakness - spacial awareness. It’s not like we don’t concede goals from his side, but the ones we do aren’t where someone got past him, it’s the ones who avoid him. Too often, he has no idea where his man is. Equally, he has no idea where our men are when he gets into promising positions. You can certainly coach a player to look more - apparently that’s all Messi does for the first ten mins of every game - but looking isn’t seeing. However, the manager clearly doesn’t rate him and his strengths are top notch so I think offers will come in and he should accept the best one.

Bottom line: I think we’ll meet Lenihan’s demands, sell Nyambe in Jan, and Rothwell will run his contract out and end up nowhere better.

[riverholmes]

I'm not sure if there will be any club to pay a transfer fee for Lenihan, Nyambe, Rothwell or Chapman in January, when you merely wait awhile for a free. (Nyambe turns 24 this December, so, as I understand it, that rules out any compensation should he leave on a free).

The club would have been wise to sell one of them in the summer - or last - perhaps, Rothwell, who, to my mind, is the least vital to the side, though, now a regular. That's assuming anyone would want to buy him for a real fee, which is no guarantee.

Earlier this year, Mowbray said that if the players didn't sign on, they'd see out their contract. Now he is talking about potential sales in January. It seems that there has been no real planning. If anything, the club should be thinking about the next potential batch of exits, in Kaminski and Brereton.

I note, also, that Mowbray keeps talking about the pandemic affecting clubs ability to pay transfer fees. I understand the sums paid for Aynsley Pears and Stergiakis are likely comparatively low but the fact remains that in 2020, we did pay reported undisclosed transfer fees for these new signings.

Edited October 19, 2021 by riverholmes

[tomphil]

We are heading for a scenario where Mowbrays big signings are hoovering up most of the budget whilst everyone else in on 5k pwk.

Iv'e never been in favour of overpaying average players but certain guys like Lenihen, Nyambie etc are entitled to expect a decent wage. That's just life at a football club but surely they can offer decent incentives to get the wages up.

How were they going to pay Armstrong this alleged 20 grand a week if he'd stayed ?

Edited October 19, 2021 by tomphil

[MarkBRFC]

5 minutes ago, tomphil said:

We are heading for a scenario where Mowbrays big signings are hoovering up most of the budget whilst everyone else in on 5k pwk.

Iv'e never been in favour of overpaying average players but certain guys like Lenihen, Nyambie etc are entitled to expect a decent wage. That's just life at a football club but surely they can offer decent incentives to get the wages up.

How were they going to pay Armstrong this alleged 20 grand a week if he'd stayed ?

I think they offered it him knowing full well he was never going to stay.

[Wheelton Blue]

1 hour ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

But only one can get him, so there would be competition. 

The competition will benefit Nyambe (or whoever) in terms of salary more than it will benefit Rovers in terms of transfer fee.

[Sparks Rover]

59 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

 Rothwell will run his contract out and end up nowhere better.

Right now Rangers is miles better.  Every other week in front of 50,000 in European competition,  higher profile, more passionate fans and a very good young upcoming manager who obviously rates him...

Or he could play for Mogadon in front of one man and his dog in a very average championship side who are only going one way for less money and no big fat signing on fee

Tough one.

[Gav]

8 hours ago, Mattyblue said:

You either want to compete at this level or you don’t.

If you can’t/won’t pay the going rate for the likes of Darragh Lenihan and believe the team will improve with a squad of academy grads, young lads brought in from the lower leagues and loanees, with minimal senior pros, then go for it, but don’t be surprised when we end up in the same division as Crewe and Lincoln.

Absolutely Matty.

Sounds like the owners are being badly advised again to me, will they ever learn? 

[JHRover]

The question facing any of our 'senior' players - Lenihan, Nyambe, Travis, Rothwell, Brereton - is going to be why would they want to stay here?

I mean it is a decent club with nice facilities but other than that?

It's not as though it is a club with ambition, or any sort of strategy other than limping from one season to the next.

It isn't a club that will make changes when results are abysmal like they have been at numerous stages over the last 2 years. The priority appears to be ensuring St Tony and his chums remain in employment than ensuring the club progresses.

We could all see that Mowbray had thrown in the towel last season and was expecting the sack. I expect the players were fed up too and deep down would have welcomed fresh ideas. But no - return to Brockhall and it is the same old lot again and now repeating the same old mistakes.

I've said it before - if I had a choice I wouldn't want to be associated with this club so if football was my career and I was ambitious I'd be looking for a rapid route out of here rather than floating around listening to Mowbray and Waggott's book of excuses and reasons why we can't do better.

I think Mowbray also knows that the route to securing his power at the club is by having a collection of younger players around him who he can bend to his way of doing things. A look at our squad now we can see that the majority are either graduates of our academy that Mowbray gave debuts to or are players Mowbray gave a Championship opportunity to in bringing them here. This will ensure the majority of these lads stay on side and don't step out of line.

[Exiled in Toronto]

3 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

The competition will benefit Nyambe (or whoever) in terms of salary more than it will benefit Rovers in terms of transfer fee.

If he’s in demand, someone will offer a fee in Jan rather than risk not getting him in Summer. Personally, I think his injury record and lack of goals/assists will put some off. Assuming he stays injury-free…

Edited October 19, 2021 by Exiled in Toronto

[chaddyrovers]

7 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don't care if people dont accept my views.

What is out in the public domain is the wage structure that Rovers adhere to and wont break unless there is a full agreement. So, accepting that alone shows Rovers are very good payers by comparison to other clubs in this league.

Another issue is that of those players mentioned as contract rebels, just who are the clubs in for them?

Rothwell - Rangers and an alleged interest from Norwich/Sheff Utd?

Lenihan - no bids

Nyambe - no bids

Brereton - no bids

Kaminski - no bids or real foundation of interest.

 

Sevilla are reporting interested in Brereton and from what was reported in the summer that Kaminski had interested in from European clubs

[Bigdoggsteel]

21 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

That sort of wage bill is completely and utterly unstainable compare to our turnover. Do you not agree?

No idea who is interested in any of those 3 players. I've seen an article that links Rangers, Bournemouth and couple of PL teams with Rothwell. 

With him in prime as footballer and club captain not at all. 

What is a reasonable wages to turnover ratio? Because it's difficult to see us competing if we have anything near a sensible one from a monetary viewpoint. The turnover isn't going to drastically increase. I'd say oursvis very low by league standards. 

You do thinks it's reasonable that he should be top earner? I suspect he thinks the same, but the club won't pay him more than some others 

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

What is a reasonable wages to turnover ratio? Because it's difficult to see us competing if we have anything near a sensible one from a monetary viewpoint. The turnover isn't going to drastically increase. I'd say oursvis very low by league standards. 

We have to increase the turnover and get more fans back inside the stadium and increase the sponsorship. 

54 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

You do thinks it's reasonable that he should be top earner? I suspect he thinks the same, but the club won't pay him more than some others 

We don't the ins and outs of the contract offer to Lenihan do we. or what the contract is wage wise or bonus wise

[Doogs]

Lenihan overated..

 

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Doogs said:

Lenihan overated..

 

As an individual maybe but stats prove we pick up better results with him in the side 

Our record without him is terrible

[roverblue]

It makes you wonder what league we would end up if the FA/EFL eventually put in a wage cap as has been talked about in the past. I think the figures banded about have been 60-70% of turnover can be spent on wages as a maximum.

These are the stats for the 19/20 season, we should be down a lot on that after releasing so many over the summer though. 

We would basically struggle to field a team to hit the 60/70% ratio, probably be an entire team made up of the under 23's! Either that or somehow magically increase revenues which under the current clown like ownership and management seems impossible.

[LeftWinger]

13 hours ago, islander200 said:

As an individual maybe but stats prove we pick up better results with him in the side 

Our record without him is terrible

Absolutely correct.

Over the last three and a bit seasons, he's played 133 games and missed 30.

When he's played we've won 37.6% of games and that drops to 20% when he's not played.

We've lost 60% of the games he's missed - a figure that drops to 34.6% when he plays.

I don't particularly rate him either, but we're better with him in the side, although I suspect that's more to do with what we replace him with, rather than how good he is.

[tomphil]

18 hours ago, Doogs said:

Lenihan overated..

 

He's a basic bog standard championship defender and pairs ok with Ayala.  Not a dig because iv's seen it a few times but i don't get the overated tag ?

He is what he is he's never looked like a potential class defender he looked like a converted mid trying to get to grips with it for years. Now he's a bread and butter type in this league.

He's learnt his trade here under the midtable messiah in a squad that's never been great defensively. He probably wouldn't be that difficult to replace for a competent club and manager with enough to spend on decent wages. That doesn't apply here though sadly.

[RoversClitheroe]

Find it absolutely astonishing people don't rate Nyambe. He'd cost millions to replace.

Everyone banging on about contracts and it not being Mowbrays fault.

He initially gave him a 2 year deal when we all know then he should have been given a 5 year deal.

[roversfan99]

23 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Find it absolutely astonishing people don't rate Nyambe. He'd cost millions to replace.

Everyone banging on about contracts and it not being Mowbrays fault.

He initially gave him a 2 year deal when we all know then he should have been given a 5 year deal.

Do people not rate him? I think it is a commonly held opinion that he is an important first team player who we will miss. Not sure where he will go and indeed whether it would be millions to replace him, he does have his limitations and is pretty poor going forward although he is a good one on one defender, although you know under Venkys that we will be going into next season with an inferior replacement, whether that is the cheapest possible replacement externally or the constantly injured, average winger that is Rankin Costello.

But whilst I share your desire for a change of manager, not everything is Mowbrays fault. He doesn't negotiate contracts, and there are 2 sides to negotiations anyway so perhaps Nyambe was unwilling to commit for longer. But Mowbray has said numerous times that he would like the soon to be out of contract players to stay, but that the problems are financial because of the budget cuts from Venkys. If you want someone to blame for the farcical situation around player contracts, Venkys should be the go to.

[lraC]

5 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Do people not rate him? I think it is a commonly held opinion that he is an important first team player who we will miss. Not sure where he will go and indeed whether it would be millions to replace him, he does have his limitations and is pretty poor going forward although he is a good one on one defender, although you know under Venkys that we will be going into next season with an inferior replacement, whether that is the cheapest possible replacement externally or the constantly injured, average winger that is Rankin Costello.

But whilst I share your desire for a change of manager, not everything is Mowbrays fault. He doesn't negotiate contracts, and there are 2 sides to negotiations anyway so perhaps Nyambe was unwilling to commit for longer. But Mowbray has said numerous times that he would like the soon to be out of contract players to stay, but that the problems are financial because of the budget cuts from Venkys. If you want someone to blame for the farcical situation around player contracts, Venkys should be the go to.

One think I have thought about, when it comes to the money available for players and their wages. I wonder how a club like Accrington Stanley would fair if someone gave them £20 million a year to waste?

[DeeCee]

RN is good but not great, a decent 7/10 over a season ISH, would take best part of 2m  to replace him

[Exiled in Toronto]

1 hour ago, RoversClitheroe said:

Find it absolutely astonishing people don't rate Nyambe. He'd cost millions to replace.

Everyone banging on about contracts and it not being Mowbrays fault.

He initially gave him a 2 year deal when we all know then he should have been given a 5 year deal.

I get the impression having seen £20 million turn into most likely nothing with the Dack situation, that has put the owners off long lucrative contracts to protect future transfer values.