The Contract Situation

[Miller11]

44 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

where Rovers often concede is down his flank.

Bollocks.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

Bollocks.

Is it? Go back over the past 2 seasons look where we concede and look at Who is central to the defensive mistakes

[Miller11]

14 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Is it? Go back over the past 2 seasons look where we concede and look at Who is central to the defensive mistakes

Yes it is. 
 

Why would I, or anyone with an ounce of sense trawl back over 2 years of goals conceded, particularly when we have only conceded one fluke goal in the last 10 hours or so of football? I’m not doing it to disprove your weird agenda, and I expect you know that, so you can continue claiming rubbish as fact.

[1864roverite]

25 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Yes it is. 
 

Why would I, or anyone with an ounce of sense trawl back over 2 years of goals conceded, particularly when we have only conceded one fluke goal in the last 10 hours or so of football? I’m not doing it to disprove your weird agenda, and I expect you know that, so you can continue claiming rubbish as fact.

Then that debunks your no locks claim 😅

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

Is it? Go back over the past 2 seasons look where we concede and look at Who is central to the defensive mistakes

You're mistaking him for Benno mate.....🙄

[lraC]

11 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Then that debunks your no locks claim 😅

Okay then, just so that your theory isn't also debunked, with of the following would you put down to Nayambe's fault?

Swansea 1 07/98/21, Millwall 1 14/08/21, Forest 1 18/08/21, West Brom 2 21/08/21, Middlesbrough 1 28/08/21, Luton 2 11/09/21, Cardiff 1 25/09/21, Huddersfield 28/09/21, Blackpool 2 02/10/21, Coventry 2 16/10/21, QPR 1 19/10/21, Derby 1 30/10/21, Fulham 7 03/11/21, Sheff UTD 1 06/11/21, Bristol City 1 20/11/21, Barnsley 1 29/12/21

[riverholmes]

To add to the mix of players who could be leaving on a free this summer are, as far as I can tell from a quick online search, Sam Burns and Connor McBride. From I read online, the club might have unilateral one year extensions to keep them until 2023 but it would seem that the club aren't convinced, seeing as they are leaving things late. By contast, U23 defenders, Louis Annesley and Dan Pike, now on loan in the conference league and lower, agreed terms until 2023 last year.

The list of contracts expiring in 2022 reads, as far as I can tell, based mostly on the site, Transfermarkt (which inaccurately includes Carter in the list, who got a a deal until 2024):

Joe Rothwell
Darragh Lenihan
Ryan Nyambe
Harry Chapman

Bradley Johnson
Ben Brereton Diaz
Thomas Kaminski
Jacob Davenport
Dan Butterworth
Connor McBride
Tyler Magloire
Sam Burns
Jordan Eastham
Joe Hilton
Luke Brennan

Reda Khadra
Jan Paul van Hecke
Ian Poveda

 

 

Edited January 3, 2022 by riverholmes

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, riverholmes said:

Ben Brereton Diaz
Thomas Kaminski

Both of them players have club options of extra 12 months contract after this season

[1864roverite]

6 hours ago, lraC said:

Okay then, just so that your theory isn't also debunked, with of the following would you put down to Nayambe's fault?

Swansea 1 07/98/21, Millwall 1 14/08/21, Forest 1 18/08/21, West Brom 2 21/08/21, Middlesbrough 1 28/08/21, Luton 2 11/09/21, Cardiff 1 25/09/21, Huddersfield 28/09/21, Blackpool 2 02/10/21, Coventry 2 16/10/21, QPR 1 19/10/21, Derby 1 30/10/21, Fulham 7 03/11/21, Sheff UTD 1 06/11/21, Bristol City 1 20/11/21, Barnsley 1 29/12/21

Well my friend you posed the question so here goes, my point of view of course and adding that RN didnt play in each of the games you mention.

Swansea - got drawn in and failed to close the player who subsequently scored the goal.

Milllwall - got caught our numerous times including shocking positional play and lack of closure on the lad who crosses for their goal.

Luton - caught ball/player watching as Luton build on the right flank, ball comes in and he is far too late to get in front of the player who scores.

Coventry - fails to put a solid tackle on the player becasue he has backed off/failed to read the game, who then has a free pass to the lad who scores their equaliser.

Cardiff - one of two players who were easily bundled away by the cardiff goalscorer, poor position for a big solid lad.

Fulham - caught dawdling for goals 1 and 2,.

I don't need to go any further. 

 

[Miller11]

30 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Well my friend you posed the question so here goes, my point of view of course and adding that RN didnt play in each of the games you mention.

Swansea - got drawn in and failed to close the player who subsequently scored the goal.

Milllwall - got caught our numerous times including shocking positional play and lack of closure on the lad who crosses for their goal.

Luton - caught ball/player watching as Luton build on the right flank, ball comes in and he is far too late to get in front of the player who scores.

Coventry - fails to put a solid tackle on the player becasue he has backed off/failed to read the game, who then has a free pass to the lad who scores their equaliser.

Cardiff - one of two players who were easily bundled away by the cardiff goalscorer, poor position for a big solid lad.

Fulham - caught dawdling for goals 1 and 2,.

I don't need to go any further. 

 

So it appears you’re doubling down on your original claim that too many goals come from Nyambe’s side… you’re also blaming him for goals that come down the left side too judging by your inclusion of Fulham’s first.

Weird agenda.

Edited January 3, 2022 by Miller11

[lraC]

37 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Well my friend you posed the question so here goes, my point of view of course and adding that RN didnt play in each of the games you mention.

Swansea - got drawn in and failed to close the player who subsequently scored the goal.

Milllwall - got caught our numerous times including shocking positional play and lack of closure on the lad who crosses for their goal.

Luton - caught ball/player watching as Luton build on the right flank, ball comes in and he is far too late to get in front of the player who scores.

Coventry - fails to put a solid tackle on the player becasue he has backed off/failed to read the game, who then has a free pass to the lad who scores their equaliser.

Cardiff - one of two players who were easily bundled away by the cardiff goalscorer, poor position for a big solid lad.

Fulham - caught dawdling for goals 1 and 2,.

I don't need to go any further. 

 

Well if you don’t need to go any further what about this. Kaminski needs to start upping his game, as all the goals this season, went between the sticks that he is supposed to guard. His deputy didn’t concede any, so why has he conceded some?

I think you have a very strange agenda and I guess you are one of these bully boys, who frightened Big Ben to death in his first couple of years.

I suggest you get a grip on reality.

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, El Tombro said:

There was a recent article on Kaminski whereby he said he loves it here and is happy with the situation. An indication that he'll sign a new contract with the club.

To be fair, I don't get the impression that any of the team is unhappy, very much including the contract rebels. Why would they be, team doing well, regular football and seemingly a close knit spirit, they have all opened negotiations with the club so there is some willingness. But ultimately it will come down to momey, and that includes with Kaminski; it is perhaps the most important contract of his career and if we cannot pay the going rate due to an overly strict wage ceiling, he wont sign.

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, Miller11 said:

So it appears you’re doubling down on your original claim that too many goals come from Nyambe’s side… you’re also blaming him for goals that come down the left side too judging by your inclusion of Fulham’s first.

Weird agenda.

No agenda just an observation 

[1864roverite]

14 minutes ago, MCMC1875 said:

@1864roveriteas for your apparent 'contact' within the club, I don't think anyone on this board, or in the wider fanbase, for that matter, really bats an eyelid.

Am I concerned about this comment? Absolutely not! Am I concerned what you think ? Couldn’t give a toss. 

[1864roverite]

Bashing? Are you for real? I am pointing out shortfalls in his game, areas that can be improved as well as suggesting a more than capable alternative if he leaves!

You are suggesting he is the finished article and top class right back or wing back, the reality is he isn’t anywhere near it yet.

As good as he is, can be or as bad as he can be, I back him each time he has the shirt on his back.

I am not alone in observing his sometimes lack of productivity or his poor final pass or inability to cross a good ball in, let alone getting a shot on target when in a good position to do so. 
 

There are real areas where he has lots to improve on.

 

 

[47er]

5 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I don't need to go any further. 

Not for me you don't. Anyone this obsessed does have an agenda it seems to me.

[bluebruce]

10 hours ago, riverholmes said:

To add to the mix of players who could be leaving on a free this summer are, as far as I can tell from a quick online search, Sam Burns and Connor McBride. From I read online, the club might have unilateral one year extensions to keep them until 2023 but it would seem that the club aren't convinced, seeing as they are leaving things late.

BBD and Kaminski also expire in the summer, with a 1 year option in our favour that hasn't been triggered as far as we know. The club are convinced by them.

It may be that we haven't made our minds up on Burns and McBride yet. Or it may just be there are contractual conditions for how it gets triggered, which might include when it can be triggered. Or just that we can trigger it at any time so we might as well see if they get serious injuries or look worse than expected in the lower leagues.

I wish we would get on with triggering the option on BBD. Or at least, I hope the option can override a pre contract arrangement.

[riverholmes]

Ah, yes, that's true Bluebruce, however, the unilateral one extension should really be a last resort by a club - as when a player is into that extension, they are, very probably, if any good, heading out the door for nothing or a low fee, as within that year, they can start to talk to other clubs about a bumper Bosman deal.

[rigger]

As long as the players keep performing well, I am not bothered what contract they are on. Would it be preferable, if the players were on long contracts but where not putting any effort in. To me it wouldn't.

[Herbie6590]

https://www.brfcs.com/magazine/articles/this-week-on-twitter-transfer-"news"/154

[JBiz]

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/statistik/endendevertraege
 

If this doesn’t link try this;

https://www.footballtransfers.com/en/transfer-news/2021/04/out-of-contract-in-2022-best-free-agents-available-on-a-bosman
 

Scary how many players are on short terms across the leagues.

[Miller11]

Thinking in a bit more depth about the soon to be out of contract players and their offers…

These figures are a mixture of reports, guesswork and conjecture, but theoretically, let’s imagine the “contact rebels” deals look something like this:

 

Nyambe on 4k, offered 6k, wants 10k

Rothwell on 5k, offered 10k, wants 15k

Lenihan on 12k, offered 15k, wants 20k

 

The wages we have offered would equate to an extra half million a year. The wages they are requesting would equate to an extra 1.2 million a year.

It’s no secret that the club have been very much watching the pennies since the Covid outbreak (yes, I know there is an argument about wasted money on Hart, Smallwood etc), but Waggott has obviously been instructed to slash costs wherever possible. A pay freeze across club staff was implemented. None of this is really surprising as the latest accounts made horrific reading.

I can’t remember if each of these had the extension triggered in the summer, but by taking up a year option on each player, wherein they are paid at the same rate for another 12 months, the club saves half a million quid. If they had upped their offers and met the theoretical demands outlined above, they have added 1.2 million to the wage bill “unnecessarily”. Obviously it’s a lot more nuanced than that, but you can see why it might actually be appealing for the club to let their deals run right down, and why any offer on the table may have been a lowball.

If this is the case you might think the players may be a little bit aggrieved, but this certainly doesn’t show in their performances or their reactions on the pitch. They are obviously all committed to the cause. The stick that one and only one is getting is an absolute disgrace, but I digress…

If we were in our usual new year position, somewhere around mid-table, no danger of relegation but not troubling the playoff spots, then we’d probably look at negotiating with these players at somewhere in between our original offer and their demands. However, while there is the possibility of promotion the players would be mad to sign new terms, unless eventual promotion clauses were specifically written in.

So, it probably suited the club for them not to sign extensions during the summer. It suits the players not to sign them now.

A definitive statement from the club stating that no players are currently for sale, and no further contract discussion will take place until the season finishes would be ideal. The only minimal risk there comes from a potential approach from a foreign team.

[RevidgeBlue]

14 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Thinking in a bit more depth about the soon to be out of contract players and their offers…

These figures are a mixture of reports, guesswork and conjecture, but theoretically, let’s imagine the “contact rebels” deals look something like this:

 

Nyambe on 4k, offered 6k, wants 10k

Rothwell on 5k, offered 10k, wants 15k

Lenihan on 12k, offered 15k, wants 20k

 

The wages we have offered would equate to an extra half million a year. The wages they are requesting would equate to an extra 1.2 million a year.

It’s no secret that the club have been very much watching the pennies since the Covid outbreak (yes, I know there is an argument about wasted money on Hart, Smallwood etc), but Waggott has obviously been instructed to slash costs wherever possible. A pay freeze across club staff was implemented. None of this is really surprising as the latest accounts made horrific reading.

I can’t remember if each of these had the extension triggered in the summer, but by taking up a year option on each player, wherein they are paid at the same rate for another 12 months, the club saves half a million quid. If they had upped their offers and met the theoretical demands outlined above, they have added 1.2 million to the wage bill “unnecessarily”. Obviously it’s a lot more nuanced than that, but you can see why it might actually be appealing for the club to let their deals run right down, and why any offer on the table may have been a lowball.

If this is the case you might think the players may be a little bit aggrieved, but this certainly doesn’t show in their performances or their reactions on the pitch. They are obviously all committed to the cause. The stick that one and only one is getting is an absolute disgrace, but I digress…

If we were in our usual new year position, somewhere around mid-table, no danger of relegation but not troubling the playoff spots, then we’d probably look at negotiating with these players at somewhere in between our original offer and their demands. However, while there is the possibility of promotion the players would be mad to sign new terms, unless eventual promotion clauses were specifically written in.

So, it probably suited the club for them not to sign extensions during the summer. It suits the players not to sign them now.

A definitive statement from the club stating that no players are currently for sale, and no further contract discussion will take place until the season finishes would be ideal. The only minimal risk there comes from a potential approach from a foreign team.

Agree with your last paragraph, you may be some way out on your assumed figures though as I was told Rothwell wants more than double the figure you're assuming we might have offered. I'd imagine Nyambe would (rightly) want a lot more as well and that the figure for Lenihan wouldn't be too far out.

However you're right,  it's now reached the stage whereby it would be batshit crazy for the Club to let anyone go with us sat third in the table and equally inadvisable for the players to sign at this precise moment knowing that they might be able to re-negotiate as Premier League players in a few months time.

The only risk the players are taking is if they don't sign now, the promotion bonus only kicks in for players who are under contract just after the start of next season, we go up and then decide to look elsewhere altogether etc etc.

The owners have supposedly already said no-one is going anywhere this window and Mowbray has changed his tune and said the supporters wouldn't expect us to break this team up.

On the face of it I think that's fair enough and for once let's hope they're as good as their word.

 

[lraC]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Agree with your last paragraph, you may be some way out on your assumed figures though as I was told Rothwell wants more than double the figure you're assuming we might have offered. I'd imagine Nyambe would (rightly) want a lot more as well and that the figure for Lenihan wouldn't be too far out.

However you're right,  it's now reached the stage whereby it would be batshit crazy for the Club to let anyone go with us sat third in the table and equally inadvisable for the players to sign at this precise moment knowing that they might be able to re-negotiate as Premier League players in a few months time.

The only risk the players are taking is if they don't sign now, the promotion bonus only kicks in for players who are under contract just after the start of next season, we go up and then decide to look elsewhere altogether etc etc.

The owners have supposedly already said no-one is going anywhere this window and Mowbray has changed his tune and said the supporters wouldn't expect us to break this team up.

On the face of it I think that's fair enough and for once let's hope they're as good as their word.

 

One other thing to think about is, if we did go up, they are then out of contract and would presumably struggle to get a premier league team to take them, so they simply miss out on a promotion bonus and a premier league contract.

The payers seem to be playing a dangerous game.

[Wheelton Blue]

13 minutes ago, lraC said:

One other thing to think about is, if we did go up, they are then out of contract and would presumably struggle to get a premier league team to take them, so they simply miss out on a promotion bonus and a premier league contract.

The payers seem to be playing a dangerous game.

Also, if we did get promoted, then we'd likely be fishing in a much bigger pool.

The likes of Nyambe could well become a thing of the past for us.