The Contract Situation

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Mattyblue said:

You either want to compete at this level or you don’t.

If you can’t/won’t pay the going rate for the likes of Darragh Lenihan and believe the team will improve with a squad of academy grads, young lads brought in from the lower leagues and loanees, with minimal senior pros, then go for it, but don’t be surprised when we end up in the same division as Crewe and Lincoln.

That's the journey Mowbray and co are set to take us on as it's within their capabilities. Seems they've sold that notion to the owners now and it's a scenario that'll keep them all in their jobs for another 3 or 4 years.

That's the top and bottom of it they are creating this illusion that we just cannot do anything without 50 mill per year investment. So the only option is managed downscale cutting the clubs cloth. Continuing to let the owners waste their 10 mill per annum propping it up whilst drawing their nice wages and expenses in the middle.

Iv'e mentioned the old Crewe model many times. Whilst we may not be the BRFC of the past we can do so much better than that. You can only be as good as your ambitions and those driving them though.

Sadly we are stuck with a corner shop mentality.

[JHRover]

40 minutes ago, 47er said:

Its looking like everything we ever feared is coming to a climax. We can't (apparently) afford the wages of even reasonable Championship players anymore and we will lose the best ones as their contracts run down. The predators are circling.

Moreover, we can't rely on transfers out to buy decent replacements  because we let their contracts run down!

But the owners won't go! And the inept staff remain!

Ergo, nothing can be resolved. All we have to look forward to is further shrinking of the fan base and a perpetual decline in the standard of the playing squad and relegation.

The situation is a scandal and its utterly demoralising to be a Rovers fan right now.

Which is why I think in time we will see an attraction to the 'bang' that Bolton and Wigan went through. A couple of years of misery and chaos but after that a clean slate, new owners and hope.

We can all see the inevitably of a slide back to League One under this setup, but all the while the club is shrinking and crumbling with the same names over the door.

[1864roverite]

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation once again that ranks as unadulterated rubbish. Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

[Wheelton Blue]

6 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

Probably, but possibly not entirely the case.

They may also be sick of playing under Mowbray et al.

Edited October 19, 2021 by Wheelton Blue

[chaddyrovers]

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

The trap that the players are the villains of the piece for demanding too much,

I have never said that the players are the villains of the piece and In fact its a job to them and they have only have small career so they want to earn the most they can and achieved as much as they can

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

Take a look at our summer transfer business this year. You really seriously think this mob are capable of replacing Nyambe, Lenihan and Rothwell with better on the same money? You really think they will even be allowed to spend similar money? Fees received? They are leaving on free transfers so we won't get any fees to reinvest, but even if we did it will disappear like the Armstrong cash under the guise of FFP compliance. Convenient how FFP issues always come along as the sales start. 

Give our new summer signings until the start of January then judge then. This summer budget was must small and tight then next year budget could be or should be. 

Rothwell is looking like he joining Rangers on pre contract. 

Yes I do think we get good/decent replacements for Lenihan and Nyambe if they want to leave and not sign new contracts. Sell them in January for fees and use that money for new signings. 

I also expect Brereton and Kaminski will leave this coming summer aswell. Expect Brereton will move to PL or Spanish club for 15 to 20 million and around 3 or 4 million for Kaminski. So we will be able to spend some of that money aswell. 

FFP is there and we must be compliance with them.  

 

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

So the latest strategy is to play on supporters emotions - mention the club and financial danger in the same sentence and many fans will just roll with whatever as long as the club stays in business.

Very far fetched is that sort of statement

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

One question for you Chaddy whilst you are on your FFP obsession

well firstly, its not obsession but reality of the footballing world and clubs have to meet their FFP requirements. You can want to keep ignoring it and thats its gets nowhere. 

10 hours ago, JHRover said:

does it not infuriate you that we are (supposedly) under extreme FFP restrictions and looking like losing prized assets for nothing because we can't pay them more when only 12 months or so ago this manager and his mates were dishing out contract extensions to Samuel, Leutwiler and Smallwood? You think that is acceptable?

Well firstly you comments that we are under extreme FFP restrictions is a person blowing something out of the water. 

Given its was minimal wages on those players and its was 4 weeks its hardly much iis it

[Mattyblue]

14 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation once again that ranks as unadulterated rubbish. Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

So nothing to worry about then if the few senior pros we have left are refusing new deals?

Onwards!

[Sparks Rover]

19 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation )

 

The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

Your first paragraph says how nobody knows anything, your second one contradicts it because you claim to have facts...🤷‍♂️

[LeftWinger]

45 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands

Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). 

Is that a fact that the wage structure is one of the highest in the league though?

The only numbers I could find were from 2018/19 season (so a few years ago now), but that had Rovers with the 16th highest wage bill in the division. I can't imagine we've increase our spend on wages massively since then.

In fact, Rovers wage bill was two thirds that of the average wage for the division.

Source: 

 

[1864roverite]

34 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Your first paragraph says how nobody knows anything, your second one contradicts it because you claim to have facts...🤷‍♂️

No contradiction at all the second paragraph is well documented in the public domain 

[Sparks Rover]

6 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

No contradiction at all the second paragraph is well documented in the public domain 

Please post some examples to back up your facts

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Please post some examples to back up your facts

No don't.

[47er]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation once again that ranks as unadulterated rubbish. Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

They seem pretty unanimous about it? No rush to re-sign is there?

[1864roverite]

10 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

Please post some examples to back up your facts

Do a little research and you will find the info it’s all out there in the open 

[47er]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Do a little research and you will find the info it’s all out there in the open 

What research I've done shows we are are having great difficulty keeping our best players.

[Sparks Rover]

1 minute ago, 1864roverite said:

Do a little research and you will find the info it’s all out there in the open 

I haven't got time, seeing as you're quoting it, just pop it on or nobody will believe you.

[1864roverite]

I don't care if people dont accept my views.

What is out in the public domain is the wage structure that Rovers adhere to and wont break unless there is a full agreement. So, accepting that alone shows Rovers are very good payers by comparison to other clubs in this league.

Another issue is that of those players mentioned as contract rebels, just who are the clubs in for them?

Rothwell - Rangers and an alleged interest from Norwich/Sheff Utd?

Lenighan - no bids

Nyambe - no bids

Brereton - no bids

Kaminski - no bids or real foundation of interest.

 

[Miller11]

2 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

I don't care if people dont accept my views.

What is out in the public domain is the wage structure that Rovers adhere to and wont break unless there is a full agreement. So, accepting that alone shows Rovers are very good payers by comparison to other clubs in this league.

Another issue is that of those players mentioned as contract rebels, just who are the clubs in for them?

Rothwell - Rangers and an alleged interest from Norwich/Sheff Utd?

Lenighan - no bids

Nyambe - no bids

Brereton - no bids

Kaminski - no bids or real foundation of interest.

 

“Contract rebels”. Jesus Christ.

Hardly surprising there have been no bids for players who are free to sign pre-contract agreements in 74 days.

I notice in your earlier post you inserted a little caveat to remove two thirds of the division from the equation when you state we are one of the leagues best payers. Its still not true though. The only table we are close to the top of is wages as a percentage of turnover. We are obviously way too high here, but instead of increasing turnover we are slashing the wage bill. A lazy, shortsighted tactic from incompetent people.

You state that nobody has a clue what players earn, or have been offered - but it’s possible to make an educated guess. Our total wage bill is public record. it’s also not too difficult to get a fair idea of what individual players earn, especially if you like investigating. Nyambe is on about 4.5 grand per week, and his initial new deal was described as “a joke” by a prominent local reporter. Neglecting to enter into discussions earlier, despite him becoming a vital part of the team has probably annoyed him. Halting all discussions for a year, blaming it on COVID, and automatically activating the year option when he likely feels severely undervalued won’t help either.

Besides, even if everything you say is true, surely it’s rank incompetence by those at the club to not have sold them by now. 10 million + worth of players have no sell on value in 10 weeks.

 

[riverholmes]

2 hours ago, Wheelton Blue said:

Probably, but possibly not entirely the case.

They may also be sick of playing under Mowbray et al.

I would suggest that Lenihan and Kaminski have international football ambitions, alongside, the financial, as they enter their theoretical peak playing years. Even playing at a club that finishes in the top half of the Championship, instead of, consistently, the lower half, might give them an edge, in Lenihan's case, to get picked for the Rep Ireland squad, and, for Kaminski, to retain his squad place and get a game or two for the Belgians. I don't know if there were exceptional reasons for it, but Kaminski wasn't in the latest Belgian nations league squad.

Edit: Looks like Koen Casteels of Wolfsburg is Belgium's No.2 or 3 keeper, alongisde Mignolet and Courtois and Kaminski benefited from him having surgery over the summer to take his place in the squad. 

It would be a coup to sign Kaminski to a new deal but it's hard to see it happening at the moment.

Edited October 19, 2021 by riverholmes

[1864roverite]

I am not nor will I defend anyone about the management of our club over the past 11 years nor have I ever sought to. It’s about bringing a bit of perspective to wrong information often posted on here and other forums. It is very clear where contracts and wages are being discussed the only things that are clearly obvious is contracts have been offered and players have so far declined to sign them. As for reasons why ? It’s pure speculation and is the reason for the cause of so much disdain

[roversfan99]

2 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation once again that ranks as unadulterated rubbish. Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

This post in supposedly stating a "fact" that all of our senior players being set to leave on free transfers because of delusions of self worth regarding demanding Premier League wages is as much "speculation once again that ranks as unadultered rubbish" as you eloquently put it as anything that anyone else has put.

[47er]

13 minutes ago, 1864roverite said:

the only things that are clearly obvious is contracts have been offered and players have so far declined to sign them

In a bit of strife then are we not? You are trying to paint it as nothing to worry about.

For my part I'm very worried. What was this long journey of Mowbray's about then? Why did he persuade the owners  not to spend money early on when they wanted to but to buy into to his gradual approach?

That's not me being speculative---its out of his own mouth!

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

I don't care if people dont accept my views.

What is out in the public domain is the wage structure that Rovers adhere to and wont break unless there is a full agreement. So, accepting that alone shows Rovers are very good payers by comparison to other clubs in this league.

Another issue is that of those players mentioned as contract rebels, just who are the clubs in for them?

Rothwell - Rangers and an alleged interest from Norwich/Sheff Utd?

Lenighan - no bids

Nyambe - no bids

Brereton - no bids

Kaminski - no bids or real foundation of interest.

 

With respect everything you have said is based on the words of Mowbray/Waggott, employees of Venkys who of course are going to concoct a narrative that paints them and the owners in a positive light and shifts responsibility away.

Talk about a 'wage structure' yet it is a shame there wasn't such an eagerness to protect the club's wage bill when Ben Gladwin was being paid to be injured or when they were dishing out extensions for squad players last summer. They'll tell people what they want to hear. Just a shame there's such a readiness to accept what they come out with.

Of course there's unlikely to be bids for Nyambe at this stage - suitors will just bypass Rovers and offer him and his agent a deal for the summer

[lraC]

3 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

Just a point here. No one on here has any knowledge of the current wages each player currently commands and therefore it follows that not a single person has any idea as to what was offered in the new contracts, in fact it is pure speculation once again that ranks as unadulterated rubbish. Rovers will have offered deals consummate with their wage structure which is one of the highest in this league (apart from parachute paid clubs and those with a massive income). The fact that the players haven't signed is because they think they can get higher wages at other clubs or they think they are worth premiership wages, which is clearly obvious they are not !

How do you know, we are one of the highest payers in the league?

[Exiled in Toronto]

54 minutes ago, JHRover said:

With respect everything you have said is based on the words of Mowbray/Waggott, employees of Venkys who of course are going to concoct a narrative that paints them and the owners in a positive light and shifts responsibility away.

Talk about a 'wage structure' yet it is a shame there wasn't such an eagerness to protect the club's wage bill when Ben Gladwin was being paid to be injured or when they were dishing out extensions for squad players last summer. They'll tell people what they want to hear. Just a shame there's such a readiness to accept what they come out with.

Of course there's unlikely to be bids for Nyambe at this stage - suitors will just bypass Rovers and offer him and his agent a deal for the summer

I think his point was there have been no bids for Nyambe at any stage. 

[Wheelton Blue]

1 minute ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

I think his point was there have been no bids for Nyambe at any stage. 

There will be once clubs realise they can get him for a song.