The Contract Situation

[1864roverite]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I can't think of anything lower down my list of priorities than spending my free time with the likes of him tbh.

I also wouldn't believe a word he came out with so would be a waste of my time.

It might give you an alternative view of the man rather than you being reliant on stuff you only read 🙊 I find there is nothing better than looking a person directly in the eyes if you think that person is lying or bull shitting so give it a go you might learn something 

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Yeah it does matter a jot, they said they were lining up a striker from abroad which subsequently turned out to be Maja, he failed a medical, end of, it happens, not Rovers fault.

Course not. We have all summer, fail to sign anyone and it isn't Rovers fault.

Nothing never is? Failing to comply with FFP - not our fault. Failing to keep key players under contract - not our fault. Failing to recruit properly - not our fault. 

Wish there would be some accountability and responsibility at times around here. And if we aren't sure of doing things the CEO shouldn't be telling supporters we are or shouldn't be appearing in the local media saying things are going to happen.

[JHRover]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Think most fans know all 3 players have been offered improved terms, how you know they haven’t is very strange, the main point is how much have they offered, is it agents/ players being greedy or Rovers being tight.

Pointless really arguing if nobody knows the facts, but looks like we will have to wait till January and see how it pans out…

How do you know they have?

Genuinely - if you have an inside track to the players themselves, their friends, family or agents who have told you they have been offered improved terms then I'll bow to that knowledge. I can't promise they haven't. I can offer my opinion which is given the information I have available I have strong doubts as to the validity of these offers or at least their suitability given none have been accepted.

As far as I can see the only people to comment on this are Mowbray and Waggott, and I've explained many times why it is in their interests for people to believe they have done all they can, even if they haven't. 

We all know how it is most likely to pan out with valuable assets walking for little/nothing, then another cycle of loans come in and another 6 months of whinging about low revenues and FFP constraints kicks in without any admission that the way of avoiding these issues is ensuring you have a squad of contracted players with value in the tank.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 hours ago, unsall said:

Think most fans know all 3 players have been offered improved terms, how you know they haven’t is very strange, the main point is how much have they offered, is it agents/ players being greedy or Rovers being tight.

Pointless really arguing if nobody knows the facts, but looks like we will have to wait till January and see how it pans out…

I don't think most would dispute that "improved" terms have been offered it's more a question of how much they've been improved by.

To use an extreme example to prove a point it's been rumoured that Nyambe is on a ridiculously low £4k p.w. as a result of coming through the Academy initially. If the offer was "improved" to say £4,500 p.w. then surely no sane person would expect him to accept that and personally don't think that even if his wage was "doubled" to £8k p.w. it would reflect his true value to the team. 

I've no idea what Nyambe and Lenihan (or maybe their agents) are asking for. I've been told what Rothwell (or probably his agent) is reportedly after and if true it's an eye watering sum way in excess of the figures being guesstimated on here.

Then again you have to factor into account that to get anyone of the same quality you might well have to pay a substantial transfer fee, agent's fees and their wage demands might not be that much different.

Still think the root of the problem is the amount of money completely wasted in previous seasons.

[Hasta]

22 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

JHR get yourself to Ewood and have a sit down and a brew with him. He is very approachable and indeed you might also get an insight from others behind the scenes as to what is going on in the off field footballing operation.

My mates dad once met Don King in the States and said he was very chatty and approachable. 

Edited December 1, 2021 by Hasta

[LeftWinger]

On 25/11/2021 at 18:23, chaddyrovers said:

 

Gav, Rothwell and Nyambe have been offered new improve contracts terms and talks have been going on for ages.

What's Gav done to deserve a new contract?

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Hasta said:

My mates dad once met Don King in the states and said he was very chatty and approachable. 

That's how a salesman tends to be and when the likes of swaggo have sat in boardrooms, stood up on a podium in a room full of corporates, argued the toss with agents and talked his way into high profile jobs.

Then sitting across from a few fans smooth talking over a brew is just sharp tuning his technique to him. 

Anyone watching his slithering interview when the STC land sale had been exposed should be slightly uneasy.

[1864roverite]

20 minutes ago, tomphil said:

That's how a salesman tends to be and when the likes of swaggo have sat in boardrooms, stood up on a podium in a room full of corporates, argued the toss with agents and talked his way into high profile jobs.

Then sitting across from a few fans smooth talking over a brew is just sharp tuning his technique to him. 

Anyone watching his slithering interview when the STC land sale had been exposed should be slightly uneasy.

I have to disagree completely when you are an expert in NVC you can easily distinguish whether he is lying being truthful or just bull shitting. Being a smooth talker is not easy and as for lying you have to be absolutely brilliant at it and believe me after 30 hrs of interviewing the ultimate scum who walk this earth a chat with SW was very easy to undertake 

[chaddyrovers]

17 hours ago, JHRover said:

Oh. So why did the club say they were in discussions with him about a new deal?

I don't know or care whether it was Maja or Messi. Matters not one jot if he doesn't join.

Ask the club JH that question

Of course it matters cos we have the deal until we find out he had a bad injury that has kept him out till now playing first team football 

51 minutes ago, LeftWinger said:

What's Gav done to deserve a new contract?

I was replying to Gav

[Sparks Rover]

36 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

 

Of course it matters cos we have the deal until we find out he had a bad injury that has kept him out till now playing first team football 

Forest say exactly the same thing, he couldn't have been about to sign for 2 clubs....

[LeftWinger]

1 hour ago, Sparks Rover said:

Forest say exactly the same thing, he couldn't have been about to sign for 2 clubs....

Exactly. 

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2021/09/05/president-stunned-as-nottingham-forest-josh-maja-deal-collapses/

[tomphil]

7 hours ago, 1864roverite said:

I have to disagree completely when you are an expert in NVC you can easily distinguish whether he is lying being truthful or just bull shitting. Being a smooth talker is not easy and as for lying you have to be absolutely brilliant at it and believe me after 30 hrs of interviewing the ultimate scum who walk this earth a chat with SW was very easy to undertake 

To be fair you're not dealing with someone accused of anything criminal and i disagree strongly on the smooth talking isn't easy point. To those who do it for a living and  it helps earn 300k per year it's a piece of piss it comes naturally it's their profession, how many years has he been doing it ?

Spinning and massaging the facts rather than outright lying is an art form, although i'm not for a min saying he isn't being truthful about everything.

[chaddyrovers]

4 hours ago, LeftWinger said:

Exactly. 

https://www.nottinghamforest.news/2021/09/05/president-stunned-as-nottingham-forest-josh-maja-deal-collapses/

Maja was at Brockhall ready to sign for us over Forest

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-waggott-interview-transcript-21633740

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Maja was at Brockhall ready to sign for us over Forest

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-waggott-interview-transcript-21633740

 

🤣 Mogadon and Nicko....Good one chaddy....👍😄  the 2nd one is just confirming the 1st....there's a chaddy on the Forest messageboard saying same thing to the reasonable fans on their board...

[JHRover]

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

To be fair you're not dealing with someone accused of anything criminal and i disagree strongly on the smooth talking isn't easy point. To those who do it for a living and  it helps earn 300k per year it's a piece of piss it comes naturally it's their profession, how many years has he been doing it ?

Spinning and massaging the facts rather than outright lying is an art form, although i'm not for a min saying he isn't being truthful about everything.

A quick look at the behaviour and CV of Waggott's predecessor Paul Senior and there are similarities. Another one who turned up here out of the blue with an odd background in football, suddenly installed as the top dog at Rovers, welcomed by many as a much needed communication link to the fans, turning up for fans forum meetings and doing the rounds at Ewood on matchday telling people what they want to hear.

All very cosy, approachable, nice guy, always happy to answer questions and entertain people, make them think things were happening.

But in the end he came and went, god knows how much he was on for his 6 month stint and next to nothing of any significance happened. Next news he is advising on education in Scotland. How he landed that one who knows but another one where talking the talk gets you where you need to be.

These people move around the country doing a couple of years here and there taking home massive salaries. A core part of their job is keeping everyone happy and being seen on the ground. Maybe that is what Venkys like - a figurehead who will deal with the supporters and keep them quiet. It is one of their skills to keep the various 'components' to the organisation happy.

It is quite clear with Waggott that he likes to talk the talk then when the bad patch arrives he disappears for a month until the dust settles and then back out again. 

Despite all the talk a quick look at what has actually happened on his watch makes for poor reading.

Consistent decline in attendances at least in part to his pricing - yet excused due to Covid

Talk about a new Riverside - never gone anywhere

Talk about a new pitch - never went anywhere

Talk about a new super duper training ground - never went anywhere

Talk about new signings at Brockhall with their suitcases ready to sign - never went anywhere

Talk about senior players signing new contracts - never went anywhere

There's a theme appearing here - things he talks about, promises, says are going to happen don't do. 

Meanwhile 4 years on the payroll and we've lost £80 million in that time, no longer own Brockhall, have failed FFP and are facing a mass exodus in the summer with precious few assets on the books.

 

Edited December 1, 2021 by JHRover

[tomphil]

Maja if he's fit and his attitude is right would be a decent signing we are going along the right lines with players like that.

Also doing the right thing saying a firm no if an old problem flags up, there was a time these type of deals would sneak through the door i reckon.

Edited December 1, 2021 by tomphil

[1864roverite]

15 minutes ago, JHRover said:

A quick look at the behaviour and CV of Waggott's predecessor Paul Senior and there are similarities. Another one who turned up here out of the blue with an odd background in football, suddenly installed as the top dog at Rovers, welcomed by many as a much needed communication link to the fans, turning up for fans forum meetings and doing the rounds at Ewood on matchday telling people what they want to hear.

All very cosy, approachable, nice guy, always happy to answer questions and entertain people, make them think things were happening.

But in the end he came and went, god knows how much he was on for his 6 month stint and next to nothing of any significance happened. Next news he is advising on education in Scotland. How he landed that one who knows but another one where talking the talk gets you where you need to be.

These people move around the country doing a couple of years here and there taking home massive salaries. A core part of their job is keeping everyone happy and being seen on the ground. Maybe that is what Venkys like - a figurehead who will deal with the supporters and keep them quiet. It is one of their skills to keep the various 'components' to the organisation happy.

It is quite clear with Waggott that he likes to talk the talk then when the bad patch arrives he disappears for a month until the dust settles and then back out again. 

Despite all the talk a quick look at what has actually happened on his watch makes for poor reading.

Consistent decline in attendances at least in part to his pricing - yet excused due to Covid

Talk about a new Riverside - never gone anywhere

Talk about a new pitch - never went anywhere

Talk about a new super duper training ground - never went anywhere

Talk about new signings at Brockhall with their suitcases ready to sign - never went anywhere

Talk about senior players signing new contracts - never went anywhere

There's a theme appearing here - things he talks about, promises, says are going to happen don't do. 

Meanwhile 4 years on the payroll and we've lost £80 million in that time, no longer own Brockhall, have failed FFP and are facing a mass exodus in the summer with precious few assets on the books.

 

The club and debt are owned by venkys not Blackburn rovers

[tomphil]

21 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I don't think most would dispute that "improved" terms have been offered it's more a question of how much they've been improved by.

To use an extreme example to prove a point it's been rumoured that Nyambe is on a ridiculously low £4k p.w. as a result of coming through the Academy initially. If the offer was "improved" to say £4,500 p.w. then surely no sane person would expect him to accept that and personally don't think that even if his wage was "doubled" to £8k p.w. it would reflect his true value to the team. 

I've no idea what Nyambe and Lenihan (or maybe their agents) are asking for. I've been told what Rothwell (or probably his agent) is reportedly after and if true it's an eye watering sum way in excess of the figures being guesstimated on here.

Then again you have to factor into account that to get anyone of the same quality you might well have to pay a substantial transfer fee, agent's fees and their wage demands might not be that much different.

Still think the root of the problem is the amount of money completely wasted in previous seasons.

If it's anything like the shenanigans with Mahoney it's no wonder they are turning them down. There's players and agents trying it on taking the piss of course there is. Then there's the clubs and their advisors low balling because they aren't that bothered as they fancy the compen, minimal transfer cash and wages to put towards someone else.

That someone else might be better, the same or worse/injury prone and they also might come from a stable more friendly to the manager etc.

[1864roverite]

5 hours ago, tomphil said:

To be fair you're not dealing with someone accused of anything criminal and i disagree strongly on the smooth talking isn't easy point. To those who do it for a living and  it helps earn 300k per year it's a piece of piss it comes naturally it's their profession, how many years has he been doing it ?

Spinning and massaging the facts rather than outright lying is an art form, although i'm not for a min saying he isn't being truthful about everything.

To be precise Tp there some who accuse him of criminal conduct, fraud, improper conduct as a CEO, thieving, being a poor decision maker, a liar and all sorts of other accusations mainly without any evidence and a reliance on supposition or what they presume to be the truth and nothing but the truth!

I say the only way to get an open and honest view of him is to go one to one with him and before you do, research and prepare your questions. Only then should you come out and make your claim!

[1864roverite]

When we are talking agents, the question should be are they really working in the best interest of the player they represent or are they working* to screw the highest fee for their own monetary gain? Agents ruin football!

[only2garners]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

Maja if he's fit and his attitude is right would be a decent signing

He hasn’t played a game for Bordeaux yet this season.

[Sparks Rover]

4 minutes ago, only2garners said:

He hasn’t played a game for Bordeaux yet this season.

He's done enough in England.  He's a good player if fit.  I'd be very happy with him....can't see it though....Forest are signing him.

[rigger]

8 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's done enough in England.  He's a good player if fit.  I'd be very happy with him....can't see it though....Forest are signing him.

The "If fit" is the bit that is going to let him down. If he failed a " Rovers", fitness test in the summer, I don't see how he will pass one six months later. 

[tomphil]

40 minutes ago, only2garners said:

He hasn’t played a game for Bordeaux yet this season.

Well considering they were sending him to Blackburn anyway are we surprised ?

Surely some sort of loan with a view to sign would be the sensible way to go if he can play and prove himself fit here.  Otherwise we should walk.

[Ulrich]

1 hour ago, 1864roverite said:

When we are talking agents, the question should be are they really working in the best interest of the player they represent or are they working* to screw the highest fee for their own monetary gain? Agents ruin football!

I'm quite happy to go one on one with him...

57 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He's done enough in England.  He's a good player if fit.  I'd be very happy with him....can't see it though....Forest are signing him.

Why has he not played for bordeaux?