The Contract Situation

[JacknOry]

Yeah, i understand that, id be pissed if TM was my manager too. Just i think he owes the club something at least.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

Yeah, i understand that, id be pissed if TM was my manager too. Just i think he owes the club something at least.

To lose one right back when our defence is shit would be careless, to lose 2 would be a dereliction of duty.  The guy has taken the piss for too long.

[JacknOry]

1 minute ago, Sparks Rover said:

To lose one right back when our defence is shit would be careless, to lose 2 would be a dereliction of duty.  The guy has taken the piss for too long.

Hes not even a RB lol - just a fill-in

[Sparks Rover]

3 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Hes not even a RB lol - just a fill-in

I've not seen him anywhere else, but Mowbray does like a square peg in a round hole....

[JacknOry]

was told he played further upfield in u23s

 

[Exiled in Toronto]

7 hours ago, bluebruce said:

I came here to say the same Chaddy, they look like they're in no rush at all. And frankly it isn't acceptable.

With so much projected turnover of playing staff, between contracts running down and loans ending, before any sales, and nothing but pride left to play for this season, all attention should be turned to summer activity. And a crucial step in that is establishing who will still be under contract. Especially with so many running down, how can we possibly set our transfer targets without a clearer picture of that?

But not only are we not even in contract talks with a player it sounds like TM wants to keep, but we haven't even had an informal chat with him about whether he is interested in staying on. Even though he is in the building and working with the manager every day.

I mean on top of everything else I said, there is the traditional delay from Venkys deciding what the budget is, so we really can't afford this lackadaisical approach, and need to get the picture clear in the ways we can, ASAP.

If Waggott and Mowbray knew they were going to be potted at season’s end, this lack of urgency is exactly what could be expected.

[darrenrover]

23 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

If Waggott and Mowbray knew they were going to be potted at season’s end, this lack of urgency is exactly what could be expected.

......or are planning to disappear this summer in a black and white hooped jumper, wearing a 'Dick Turpin' mask, with a sack slung over their shoulders with an appropriate name of SWAG emblazoned upon said sack?!.....just saying like!

[Sparks Rover]

34 minutes ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

If Waggott and Mowbray knew they were going to be potted at season’s end, this lack of urgency is exactly what could be expected.

Or they are going to use the expected chaos to quietly get through the summer and get at least another season?🤭

[JHRover]

Mowbray and Waggott won't have had a peep out of India since last summer when the budget was authorised (and a decent one at that considering no sales and a pandemic).

The only link to India will be Suhail who by all accounts hasn't been in the UK until the last week or so. He doesn't have the power to do anything other than pass messages and report back to India (when they want to know what is going on).

Given our abysmal form, poor league position, and strong likelihood we are going to be a long way from the play-offs and probably significantly worse off than the last 2 seasons Mowbray will expect to be under serious pressure and probably be sacked at some point between now and May. Of course we all know that at a serious, professional football club he'd probably not have lasted until now but certainly wouldn't last beyond May. Mowbray will know that and yet he probably underestimates just what a basket case we are.

Having ingratiated himself in India he is probably now close to Kean levels of immunity, whereby results, performances, pressure or any other metric in football is irrelevant on the altar of personal friendship/trust.

So the next couple of months, as Mowbray awaits the annual review, will consist of him awaiting his fate no doubt expecting the axe to fall but in the meantime coming out with the usual guff about projects, plans, identities, styles, trying to make out as though he hasn't had enough time or deserves longer. 

When the review takes place he will either get them buying into his vision once again, probably armed with another reasonable transfer kitty. Weather a few tough questions here and there, blame Covid, and it is full steam ahead for another year at least with unchecked power and freedom.

On the contrary if Venkys slash budgets, which they surely will at some point soon, then he can exit stage left before the doo-doo hits the fan next season when we've no squad and we're relying on the usual frees and loans minus Armstrong, Dack, Elliott etc.

Then if Mowbray goes and we are struggling next season he and his disciples can use that as proof we should have kept him and that he was doing a great job.

[Oldgregg86]

11 hours ago, JacknOry said:

was told he played further upfield in u23s

 

He did. If you asked the squad where there preferred position was and what position they play in you’d be suprised at how many number 10s we have . Half the squad is an attacking mid shoe horned anywhere on the pitch. It’s ridiculous 

[chaddyrovers]

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I know that Mowbray should be sacked, I have being saying as much for quite a while and in the last few weeks you have joined me and many others in sharing that opinion, problem being that you seem to think now that all the problems are solely with Mowbray.

Mowbray is the main problem and his 3 years of recruitment that overall hasn't improve our position and in fact this summer we are going to lose a couple of talented players who are out of contract this summer plus need a total rebuild this summer. If its not Mowbray's fault then who to blame? Owners have provided Mowbray with another financial backing in 3 seasons to get us promote. 

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I am just saying that the owners were never going to sack the manager during the international break because they dont seem to care. He will almost certainly still be here next season.

I already know your view on that but Venkys have done twice previously as stated with Appleton and Bowyer. Who knows if he will be here next season. They will be end of the season review for sure

16 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Last year was an unusual one because of the pandemic but it was simply down to restrictions rather than proactivity that the manager didnt need to wait until after the season had finished before flying over to beg for money/sort his budget. But Mowbray will be totally in the dark as to what his budget will be next season or even what they think about the managers future and the teams progress.

. Mowbray wont be going to India this summer either and has already said he has only speak to Pasha now. Not directly to the owners. Does this Owners have lost faith in Mowbray now? Similar to Bowyer situation. 

Mowbray knows the way the owners work by now and you can keep making excuses after excuses for him, but to be honest I am bored of listening and reading them. Our recruitment department should have different lists with different price region for each position we need players for. If anything Mowbray should know his first, second and third targets for each position we need players for on different price lists right now. 

 

Edited March 29, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[Sparks Rover]

51 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray should know his first, second and third targets for each position we need players for on different price lists right now. 

 

Hold on a minute, this has never been his style for 4 years, he leaves everything to last minute, pretends he goes for players, and in the end plumps for the next teenage cab off the rank at the local Premier league club.

You have wholeheartedly supported this method for 4 years, why are you suddenly against it.? 🤷‍♂️🙄

Edited March 29, 2021 by Sparks Rover

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Mowbray is the main problem and his 3 years of recruitment that overall hasn't improve our position and in fact this summer we are going to lose a couple of talented players who are out of contract this summer plus need a total rebuild this summer. If its not Mowbray's fault then who to blame? Owners have provided Mowbray with another financial backing in 3 seasons to get us promote. 

I already know your view on that but Venkys have done twice previously as stated with Appleton and Bowyer. Who knows if he will be here next season. They will be end of the season review for sure

. Mowbray wont be going to India this summer either and has already said he has only speak to Pasha now. Not directly to the owners. Does this Owners have lost faith in Mowbray now? Similar to Bowyer situation. 

Mowbray knows the way the owners work by now and you can keep making excuses after excuses for him, but to be honest I am bored of listening and reading them. Our recruitment department should have different lists with different price region for each position we need players for. If anything Mowbray should know his first, second and third targets for each position we need players for on different price lists right now. 

 

I have no idea why you think I am making excuses for the manager. For a good year now, I have been fairly consistent in my criticism of the manager, his tactics, his recruitment, everything really, and indeed it was you that was making/swallowing all of his excuses, injuries, (especially Dack in which you regularly claimed that we could/would have made the top 6 last year had he not got injured) covid, the pitch etc, none of which excuse him.

What I am saying is that BOTH the owners and the manager have their problems. If you choose to believe that the way Venkys work, the nonsense about keeping the manager in the dark until the season ends regarding budgets etc, their continued poor choices both of appointing managers and moreso when to let managers go, their continued negligence, if that is all healthy to you, or indeed "just one of those things", then fair enough, I think its shoddy and its not good enough.

Amidst this, Mowbray still is making and has made decisions that arent justified or excused by anything, Venkys incompetence included. His recruitment has been poor bar a couple of exceptions, people do overplay the budget he has but it is undoubtedly very competitive and the majority has been poured down the drain. His tactical principles are massively flawed, he continuously plays players out of position, I could go on, to make it clear, I dont think it is good enough and as per the last 12 months, I want him to be removed from his position.

[chaddyrovers]

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I have no idea why you think I am making excuses for the manager

Cos you are everytime by blaming the Owners. Its have been financially backed by the owners. He has 20 million pounds plus wages in 3 years and we havent improved enough to get top 6. Owners have backed Mowbray 3 years plan. Now it's time to change manager and structure 

 

23 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If you choose to believe that the way Venkys work, the nonsense about keeping the manager in the dark until the season ends regarding budgets, etc. 

You can keep moaning about this each and every summer transfer window but in all honest does it matter? No really. When was the last time we signed a player in May and June?

Plus Waggott, Mowbray goes on holiday for 2 weeks away in normal circumstances. 

Edited March 29, 2021 by chaddyrovers

[roversfan99]

25 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cos you are everytime by blaming the Owners. Its have been financially backed by the owners. He has 20 million pounds plus wages in 3 years and we havent improved enough to get top 6. Owners have backed Mowbray 3 years plan. Now it's time to change manager and structure 

 

You can keep moaning about this each and every summer transfer window but in all honest does it matter? No really. When was the last time we signed a player in May and June?

Plus Waggott, Mowbray goes on holiday for 2 weeks away in normal circumstances. 

In all honesty, what does it matter moaning about the manager if thats the case?! Strawman argument. Its not about signing a player in May, its about planning, its not healthy to be so in the dark as to what is happening next, if the manager is going, why not get rid now and look for another? If he is staying, which obviously is not a good idea, why is everything still up in the air, why is there no idea about budget and forward planning, therefore making scouting players a thankless task, so many players out of contract, I could go on.

I am blaming the owners because they have caused misery to Rovers fans ever since they sadly bought the club. And more pertinently, their negligent, backward ways continue to cause us further problems.

Mowbray has certainly not got the most from his recruitment which has been poor and like his tactical errors, I repeatedly criticise him for and continue to desire a change of manager. In a fairly poor league quality wise and with a competitive budget, there is opportunity to challenge, even amidst the irritations that the owners precede over. But lets not pretend that the owners are proactive, that they are emotionally invested, and that a change of manager alone will fix all of the problems at the club, as much as it needs to be done. Indeed, it is the owners that continue to sit on their hands whilst the current manager, possibly the best they have ever hired which tells you everything considering how average he is, just potters on.

Even look at this season, our recruitment in the main was done late in the day, 4 players signed on deadline day, a number of games into the season, and one signed after that. Could that have been avoided, yes of course it could. On the flip side, the team that he did play contained a 7m joker that Mowbray signed, a left back that Mowbray has repeatedly dished out new contracts to in spite of his incompetence, a centre back that he gave a new contract to who has repeatedly proven to be unreliable, 2 more midfielders likely on decent wages who spend most of the time either in the treatment room or underperforming.

I think you are in denial. You think that there is a chance that Mowbray will be sacked after the final whistle of the last game of the season, a sporting director is lined up to oversee a thorough recruitment process for a quality head coach, and there are in depth scouting reports on players ready for the go ahead to accompany our current misfits who will suddenly start performing and all together put us in the play off places next season. I suspect you will be disappointed.

[chaddyrovers]

45 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Its not about signing a player in May, its about planning, 

All planning can be done just like it's been done every season by Mowbray and recruitment by that time come. The recruitment department will have done all the scouting, research and data analysis will be done by end of the season. Mowbray will have different list to select players from. He probably add a couple of Boro players to list 😂

52 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

If he is staying, which obviously is not a good idea, why is everything still up in the air, why is there no idea about budget and forward planning, therefore making scouting players a thankless task, so many players out of contract, I could go on.

 

Our recruitment department will be scouting players for the past 12 months and making lists up for the last month or so. So its doesnt make scouting players a thankless task at all. Our scouts will be watching loads of players on a weekly basis. Wyscout given you access to all the info, videos, data, etc. Rovers used Wyscout software. 

We have made some contracts offers to some players has you know .

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Even look at this season, our recruitment in the main was done late in the day, 4 players signed on deadline day, a number of games into the season, and one signed after that. 

That's down to Mowbray and him making a decision who to go for. Nothing to do with the owners is it?. We went after a left back who was out of contract all summer and he turned us down for MLS club. Mowbray could have got Manning for a cheap fee but didnt. 

Signed a centre back on a 3 year contract who is totally injury prone. 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

You think that there is a chance that Mowbray will be sacked after the final whistle of the last game of the season, 

Of course there is a chance Mowbray will be gone. Do you really think the owners are happy with this season? Mowbray has admitted he doesnt speak to owners anymore but through their advisor Suhail Pasha. Is this the first sign that Mowbray has lost the confidence of the owners? 

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

A sporting director is lined up to oversee a thorough recruitment process for a quality head coach, and there are in depth scouting reports on players ready for the go ahead to accompany our current misfits who will suddenly start performing and all together put us in the play off places next season. 

That's is what I would do which is sack Waggott, Mowbray, Venus and Lowe today. Appoint Damien Johnson as Caretaker head coach for the rest of the season. Then interview for a new CEO to run the club within the next 2 to 3 weeks. Then appoint a new Sporting Director within 2 weeks of that appointment. Let him appoint a Head Coach to work under him. Sort out Rankin-Costello, Rothwell and Nyambe new contracts. Then Sportng Director with recruitment department starting choosing players to bring in that fit the head coach formation and style he wants to bring in.

Playoffs/promotion should be aim every season unless you want to be mid table Championship club every season and on the highway to nowhere but middle table again. Let's get the champagne 🍾 for that again 

[roversfan99]

Fair enough chaddy, if you dont think there is "any point" and/or anything wrong with the owners disinterest, with their lack of proactivity and their unique way of working, that all of the problems are concentrated within an underachieving manager, and that there is even the slightest of chance of anything close to the above scenario playing itself out, then fair enough.

There is a humour to the extent to which you have jumped on board with some of the throwaway comments about things like the constant Middlesbrough links and the repeated mediocrity under him, ill give you that.

[MarkBRFC]

Looks like we have a one year extension option on Chapman that we'll be taking up..

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/transfer-news/blackburn-shrewsbury-harry-chapman-contract-20302279

[JacknOry]

14 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

Looks like we have a one year extension option on Chapman that we'll be taking up..

https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/transfer-news/blackburn-shrewsbury-harry-chapman-contract-20302279

His form there suggests he should be further up the pecking order here when he returns. Ironically, he is played in the 'Dack' role there and not on the wing. He plays behind a target man though. 8 goals in 15 for a bottom half L1 team is very good going. Surely that rate compares favourably with Dack in that division.

No more u23s TM. Don't care if the lad is a miserable sod, your nice guys only approach is not getting us anywhere and is why we have such a soft under belly.

Edited April 2, 2021 by JacknOry

[rigger]

5 hours ago, JacknOry said:

His form there suggests he should be further up the pecking order here when he returns. Ironically, he is played in the 'Dack' role there and not on the wing. He plays behind a target man though. 8 goals in 15 for a bottom half L1 team is very good going. Surely that rate compares favourably with Dack in that division.

No more u23s TM. Don't care if the lad is a miserable sod, your nice guys only approach is not getting us anywhere and is why we have such a soft under belly.

We've a star man, playing out of sight.

His name is Harry Chapman, and he's fucking dynamite.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Mowbray clarifies situation with Rovers' out of contract players | Lancashire Telegraph

JRC does have an extra year. Sounds like the club will trigger the majority of extensions. 

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

Mowbray clarifies situation with Rovers' out of contract players | Lancashire Telegraph

JRC does have an extra year. Sounds like the club will trigger the majority of extensions. 

It's a disgraceful state of affairs though.

The situation has been allowed to deteriorate to the point where are only options are to try and get some sort of fee for them this summer or let them walk for nothing next.

And the manager is "relaxed" about it.

Perhaps he hits his pension targets in 12 months.

 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

It's a disgraceful state of affairs though.

The situation has been allowed to deteriorate to the point where are only options are to try and get some sort of fee for them this summer or let them walk for nothing next.

And the manager is "relaxed" about it.

Perhaps he hits his pension targets in 12 months.

 

I wasn't saying otherwise. 

Rovers can trigger the contracts, the players can say they still want to leave. It just means paying a less than committed player for another 12 months.

The only hope is they sign new deals. 

[Eddie]

8 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

I wasn't saying otherwise. 

Rovers can trigger the contracts, the players can say they still want to leave. It just means paying a less than committed player for another 12 months.

The only hope is they sign new deals. 

There's no way that any of our players will be 'less committed' next year.

I'm firmly in the Mowbray-out camp and I'm fairly pessimistic about our future, but none of the players in question will have a host of good options for the next move and the current financial climate in football will ensure that every player will want to put on a good show if they're looking for a move.

The contract situation is a mess, but I don't think it will lead to players underperforming. 

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

There's no way that any of our players will be 'less committed' next year.

There's every 'way'. If contracts get triggered that they don't want triggering then they could easily be less than committed. The last 10 years have been littered with players at Ewood being less than committed. If they sign new contracts it means they want to be here. All 3 will have options to go elsewhere, depends what those options are. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Hoochie Bloochie Mama