Rovers v Canaries. Sat 12th Dec 3pm

[philipl]

Profoundly disappointing result.

Affectations to automatic promotion are over. We are not making up 12 points.

Affectations we can carry on going into key games with our length of injuries and not be affected also destroyed.

Williams and Lenihan very wobbly. Douglas not good enough. The defensive gamble won't work out for Mowbray.

Replacing the entire midfield with a single substitution didn't work out either.

Armstrong hitting target with conviction twice in 12 attempts in two games doesn't suddenly make him a poor striker but Pukki showed him today what a good striker looks like.

Norwich good but not that good. Hanley was commanding and some of their midfield link up play was crisp in a way our more spacious midfield cannot be.

Harvey Elliiott; just wow.

Challenge now is to hang onto the top 6 coat tails to give the injury returnees something to fight for.

Edited December 13, 2020 by philipl

[Ossydave]

8 hours ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Bell needs to be back in for Douglas.

The defence needs to defend first and foremost. Unless we stop conceding goals we are never going to progress in this league. 
 

 

Erm.

Bell can't defend.

[Paul Mellelieu]

12 hours ago, K-Hod said:

Squad is better indeed, but with that means that we probably should be doing better than being exactly where we have been for the last two seasons too....

There is no "exactly" the same and in football.  There are so many variables at play, from one season to the next.  This whole thread has been that Mowbray is some kind of idiot - or worse, when player recruitment, style of play and the potential to improve are there for all to see.  I don't think we will make it, but as I said over the summer, TM deserves another season.  I think the LT has it right here: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18940720.rovers-must-recognise-potential-norwich-defeat/

 

[K-Hod]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

If the benchmark is going to be a new manager comes in and takes us straight up, we are going to get through a lot of managers.

You Mowbray out lot really don’t see the big picture. He built this team, they love him, they love being here. You boot him out, Armstrong loyalty goes. Bennett prob gets shipped out, a huge player in our changing room. Johnson is here through his connection to Bennett. You lose big characters you lose the dressing room. Dack probably has loyalty to Mowbray, we know he wants to go, doubt prem teams want him.

Its obvious from players who stayed or left the dressing room has a strong bond, and Mowbray is big part of that, ship him out to bring in god knows who because you demand premier league football is suicide for us.

And that’s not even getting started on how venkys were pre Mowbray. What key player we sold since Mowbray got in? No one.

The Mowbray out crew, the same ones who wanted Big Sam out. How that go?

You have absolutely no way of knowing whether that is the same people or not.

[chaddyrovers]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

There is no "exactly" the same and in football.  There are so many variables at play, from one season to the next.  This whole thread has been that Mowbray is some kind of idiot - or worse, when player recruitment, style of play and the potential to improve are there for all to see.  I don't think we will make it, but as I said over the summer, TM deserves another season.  I think the LT has it right here: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18940720.rovers-must-recognise-potential-norwich-defeat/

 

I totally agree 1000%. 

Others on the messageboard will disagree with me and you. I dont see you changing most of their minds anyway. 

If people want a change of manager then fair enough. I don't see a quick fix anywhere like If we appoint person x he will guarantee us promotion. 

[47er]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

The Mowbray out crew, the same ones who wanted Big Sam out.

OOH,I don't think so!!

Any evidence for that?

We're going back a while but I clearly remember Gav celebrating when Sam got the chop.He's a Mowbray In fan!

But you're positing the opposite and i don't think its true.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

18 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I totally agree 1000%. 

Others on the messageboard will disagree with me and you. I dont see you changing most of their minds anyway. 

If people want a change of manager then fair enough. I don't see a quick fix anywhere like If we appoint person x he will guarantee us promotion. 

Believing that we shouldn't replace a manager because you can't guarantee promotion with the next appointment is a really cluthicjg at straws. Nothing is guaranteed in life, if you don't take chances you'll never get anywhere.

We've stagnated under Mowbray and made no progress where it actually matters. Our debt is growing and the only way to service it is with promotion.

Your kind of attitude will see us in the same position in 10 years time, I just hope and prey that someone in India who makes decisions doesn't see it like you do and actually holds Tony to account for his under performance. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Watched the highlights again. How anyone can blame the defenders for those goals yesterday is beyond me. Pukki is class for the first goal and they second is a big dirty deflection, that typically seem to go against us more than we get them. You would think for the amount of shots Armstrong has, he would get a few more deflections. It probably shows how crazy and impossible some of the shots are. 

Pukkis link up play excellent too. Brings the 3 class attacking midfielders behind him into play. Norwich are the best side in the division. They wil be promoted with at least 5 games to play. 

 

[K-Hod]

33 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I totally agree 1000%. 

Others on the messageboard will disagree with me and you. I dont see you changing most of their minds anyway. 

If people want a change of manager then fair enough. I don't see a quick fix anywhere like If we appoint person x he will guarantee us promotion. 

Just as those on the other side will probably not change your mind either....

If Mowbray fails to reach the top 6 with the best squad we’ve had for years and the backing he’s had, then I think it’s a failure tbh.

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Believing that we shouldn't replace a manager because you can't guarantee promotion with the next appointment is a really cluthicjg at straws. Nothing is guaranteed in life, if you don't take chances you'll never get anywhere.

We've stagnated under Mowbray and made no progress where it actually matters. Our debt is growing and the only way to service it is with promotion.

Your kind of attitude will see us in the same position in 10 years time, I just hope and prey that someone in India who makes decisions doesn't see it like you do and actually holds Tony to account for his under performance. 

I wouldnt be replacing Mowbray right now. I believe we should allow Mowbray the season and review after the season ends. 

I don't believe we have stagnated under Mowbray has we have change the team and style of play. He has build one team that got us promotion from league 1 and maintained our championship status with direct style. Now we overhauled the style and change to attractive possession based style that's shows us more possession of the ball and creating chances and more shots than ever. 

Let's allow him the season and see whether we can get playoffs place 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

10 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wouldnt be replacing Mowbray right now. I believe we should allow Mowbray the season and review after the season ends. 

I don't believe we have stagnated under Mowbray has we have change the team and style of play. He has build one team that got us promotion from league 1 and maintained our championship status with direct style. Now we overhauled the style and change to attractive possession based style that's shows us more possession of the ball and creating chances and more shots than ever. 

Let's allow him the season and see whether we can get playoffs place 

Agreed.

Results show that currently we just can’t compete with the better teams in this league but the signs are there and from now on we have to ensure that our play gets the rewards it deserves. Plenty of winnable games to come with players coming back from injury. No reason why we can’t hit top 6 by the New Year

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

1 minute ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Agreed.

Results show that currently we just can’t compete with the better teams in this league but the signs are there and from now on we have to ensure that our play gets the rewards it deserves. Plenty of winnable games to come with players coming back from injury. No reason why we can’t hit top 6 by the New Year

The signs aren't there, that's the problem. 

[frosty]

8 hours ago, Wood26 said:

The Mowbray out crew, the same ones who wanted Big Sam out. How that go?

I think you’re absolutely miles off with that one. I’d bin Mowbray tomorrow but would never have sacked Big Sam and it was obvious where we were heading when he was sacked (ten years ago today I believe by the way). 

In fact, I’d say a lot of those who were happy to see Big Sam go due to some nonsense about his style of play are content with what Mowbray is serving up just because we’re ‘easier on the eye’ and scoring a few more goals. That does mean there are people who were unhappy with us in mid-table in the Premier League but happy with us stuck in mid-table in the Championship. Very strange, but that’s the impression I get. 

[matt83]

8 hours ago, Wood26 said:

If the benchmark is going to be a new manager comes in and takes us straight up, we are going to get through a lot of managers.

You Mowbray out lot really don’t see the big picture. He built this team, they love him, they love being here. You boot him out, Armstrong loyalty goes. Bennett prob gets shipped out, a huge player in our changing room. Johnson is here through his connection to Bennett. You lose big characters you lose the dressing room. Dack probably has loyalty to Mowbray, we know he wants to go, doubt prem teams want him.

Its obvious from players who stayed or left the dressing room has a strong bond, and Mowbray is big part of that, ship him out to bring in god knows who because you demand premier league football is suicide for us.

And that’s not even getting started on how venkys were pre Mowbray. What key player we sold since Mowbray got in? No one.

The Mowbray out crew, the same ones who wanted Big Sam out. How that go?

I think you’re grossly overestimating players loyalty to Mowbray and where their true loyalties lie - their bank balance. 

[Rogerb]

For all the improvement in style does anyone believe we have a top six defense? That is the Crux of the problem and Mowbray is unable to provide one.

[47er]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wouldnt be replacing Mowbray right now. I believe we should allow Mowbray the season and review after the season ends. 

I don't believe we have stagnated under Mowbray has we have change the team and style of play. He has build one team that got us promotion from league 1 and maintained our championship status with direct style. Now we overhauled the style and change to attractive possession based style that's shows us more possession of the ball and creating chances and more shots than ever. 

Let's allow him the season and see whether we can get playoffs place 

The danger is that if we fail again to get top 6, never mind promotion, some of the best players we've got will decide to try  pastures new. And who could blame them?

We've got a Top 6 squad which probably won't make top 6. If its not the manager to blame who is it? Why should we do nothing about it?

And don't blame injuries.

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

44 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wouldnt be replacing Mowbray right now. I believe we should allow Mowbray the season and review after the season ends. 

I don't believe we have stagnated under Mowbray has we have change the team and style of play. He has build one team that got us promotion from league 1 and maintained our championship status with direct style. Now we overhauled the style and change to attractive possession based style that's shows us more possession of the ball and creating chances and more shots than ever. 

Let's allow him the season and see whether we can get playoffs place 

You've bought into Mowbray's nonsense about building different teams/a slow build etc It's utter rubbish. He's worked out how to play these owners to give himself the maximum amount of time in the job. Any proper, ambitious, capable manager would want promotion ASAP. 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

19 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The signs aren't there, that's the problem. 

Come on Hoochie. We have been pretty damned close to getting results against all the relegated teams but in the end their superior quality has meant we have just failed. Yes there have been some shaky performances but there are some decent teams in this league. 
 

The injury and illness situation has been horrendous and we have had to play youngsters who normally wouldn’t feature. This will stand us in good stead when some of our better players come back. 
 

There are signs that we are not that far off top 6 and there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to achieve it. 

[Mattyblue]

‘Progress’ can only be gauged at the end of the season, campaigns ebb and flow, all this ‘after 18 games...’ stuff doesn’t hold water for me, it’s just picking and choosing stats to fit a personal view.

Alternatively, those who believe TM will fire us to the promised land could have done the same 3 matches ago with ‘look how we’ve improved after 15 games compared to previous seasons’.

He ain’t going anywhere regardless this season, so you all may as well keep your powder dry.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Mattyblue

[darrenrover]

59 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

Believing that we shouldn't replace a manager because you can't guarantee promotion with the next appointment is a really cluthicjg at straws. Nothing is guaranteed in life, if you don't take chances you'll never get anywhere.

We've stagnated under Mowbray and made no progress where it actually matters. Our debt is growing and the only way to service it is with promotion.

Your kind of attitude will see us in the same position in 10 years time, I just hope and prey that someone in India who makes decisions doesn't see it like you do and actually holds Tony to account for his under performance. 

I agree with you but I don't think you should continue to worry about the debt. Let the Rao's do that because without their financial input, that  level of debt would never be serviceable by the club alone, promotion to PL or not. The interest payments alone would be £8/10 million annually, without any capital repayments.

Managerially, the time to roll the dice is here, whilst there's still sufficient time to positively influence this season's outcome. We're no longer a 'loony bin' club, we'll be sufficiently attractive now to a host of quality managers capable of kicking the club on from the foundations Mowbray has given us. 

So for me, it's time for "thanks Tony but off you pop".

[47er]

18 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

 

There are signs that we are not that far off top 6 and there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to achieve it.

Well there's 11 clubs above us for a start!

[chaddyrovers]

12 minutes ago, CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber said:

You've bought into Mowbray's nonsense about building different teams/a slow build etc It's utter rubbish. He's worked out how to play these owners to give himself the maximum amount of time in the job. Any proper, ambitious, capable manager would want promotion ASAP. 

This kind of response/comments is why I dont try to engage with other posters to try to change people opinions. 

Mowbray has done a very good job at this club. The owners trust him. 

Mowbray wants promotion here for sure and any comments otherwise are just wrong. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, K-Hod said:

Just as those on the other side will probably not change your mind either....

If Mowbray fails to reach the top 6 with the best squad we’ve had for years and the backing he’s had, then I think it’s a failure tbh.

Agreed,but the only way we will know that for certain is if he gets the full season, right? 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Ewood Ace]

15 hours ago, Gav said:

I agree. 

Who would you replace him with?

I’d have Hughes in a heartbeat, we’d not lose wondering that’s for sure, but can’t think of anyone else that could take this squad up, that’s what poster are looking for. 

Hughes would be a good shout. Nigel Pearson would me choice. There are also bound to be managers out there who none of us had heard of for example before this season I doubt many people had heard of the Reading manager, the last 3 managers that Barnsley have appointed have all been a success for them but not many of us would have heard of them prior to becoming Barnsley manager.

Edited December 13, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[danger19_80]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Watched the highlights again. How anyone can blame the defenders for those goals yesterday is beyond me. Pukki is class for the first goal and they second is a big dirty deflection, that typically seem to go against us more than we get them. You would think for the amount of shots Armstrong has, he would get a few more deflections. It probably shows how crazy and impossible some of the shots are. 

Pukkis link up play excellent too. Brings the 3 class attacking midfielders behind him into play. Norwich are the best side in the division. They wil be promoted with at least 5 games to play. 

 

Different opinions and all that but I watched them and couldn't believe how anyone wouldn't blame them! Why was Gallagher left to mark Pukki for the first and, whilst the second took a lucky deflection, the whole passage of play in the lead up to it was a shambles starting with Williams' weak attempt at a block on the half way line, Lenhian's weak attempt at a tackle on the edge of the box, Williams' poor clearance etc etc.