Rovers v Canaries. Sat 12th Dec 3pm

[RevidgeBlue]

10 minutes ago, Mercer said:

“We’re on a journey to get better. We have an ambition to try and push on and be around the top six in this division and after 46 games we’ll see whether we’re good enough.

“We were in League One only two-and-a-half years ago and we’re trying to build and grow".

 

I just wish Mowbray would feck off.

Sick and tired of what, IMO, is just bullsh1t, followed by more bullsh1t.

Sadly, our owners and happy clappers seem to buy it.

 

Amazed anyone buys this sort of "it takes ten years for anything good to happen" type nonsense. 

After getting promoted from the Championship to the Premier League through the play offs under Dalglish we finished 4th, 2nd and 1st. People would no doubt argue that was down to Jack's wallet but it is still a great achievement. Good things tend to happen very quickly when a manager knows what they're doing. Where are we after 3 years with Mowbray -15th, 10th, probably 14th or 15th again.

For a more accurate comparison re finances Howard Kendall took us up from the old 3rd division and then missed out on promotion to the top flight the following season on goal difference with the same group of players and far less financial support than Mowbray has had because he was a good manager and didn't need to waffle on about supposed long term plans to excuse poor performance.

Bumbling along in lower mid table under a crap manager, I'm sick of it, I mean what's the point?

[New Jeru]

7 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Amazed anyone buys this sort of "it takes ten years for anything good to happen" type nonsense. 

After getting promoted from the Championship to the Premier League through the play offs under Dalglish we finished 4th, 2nd and 1st. People would no doubt argue that was down to Jack's wallet but it is still a great achievement. Good things tend to happen very quickly when a manager knows what they're doing. Where are we after 3 years with Mowbray -15th, 10th, probably 14th or 15th again.

For a more accurate comparison re finances Howard Kendall took us up from the old 3rd division and then missed out on promotion to the top flight the following season on goal difference with the same group of players and far less financial support than Mowbray has had because he was a good manager and didn't need to waffle on about supposed long term plans to excuse poor performance.

Bumbling along in lower mid table under a crap manager, I'm sick of it, I mean what's the point?

Trouble is, with the club's track record under the current owners, we're far more likely to appoint someone worse and land back in League One than find a mastermind who can take us up.

[davulsukur]

22 minutes ago, DE. said:

Genuinely despise this disingenous nonsense, even worse when it's spouted by the manager. "But it's true" - yeah, but stripped of all context. We went down with 51 points which was frankly ridiculous and would have seen us safe almost any other season. We didn't have to sell a single player. Instead we bought the best player in League 1 and added to the squad. As a result we romped the league despite not playing very well at any point during the campaign. 

So, since we got relegated 8 years ago we've spent one solitary season in League 1 - which was a blip caused by the stupidity of our owners hiring a useless manager and waiting until February to sack him. That aside we've finished between 7th - 15th every season, barring the chaotic 12/13 season. 

To talk us down like we're Luton or Wycombe trying to find our way is insulting. It's embarrassing enough to hear it from our own fans, let alone the manager. No wonder we don't have the mentality to beat the top teams when the manager himself regards us in such a lowly fashion.

I can only repeat, we need a winner who understands and embraces what this club should be. 

Despite having the best player in league one and Probably the best squad, he couldn't even romp the league. 

We ended 2nd behind Wigan and I'm pretty sure it took us some time to overtake Shrewsbury.

[darrenrover]

I've not read back through the thread and have no intensions of doing so either, the comments will no doubt be predictable and understandably so.

Nor do I want to read whatever platitudes Mowbray spouts either because recently, it's just been the same old shit. Injury problems, Covid issues, Norwich recently relegated from The Prem, we're finding our feet still following promotion from League 1, our budget's not competitive blah, blah, bloody blah!

My own opinion is that Mowbray's, Cheston's and Sylvester's recent ramblings in the press, regarding the contractual situation with a host of players, who are all coming to the end of their contracts next summer, has had a serious and detrimental effect on the players' levels of commitment and performance. It was an abject lesson in terms of what not to do with regards to individual and collective motivation. It was disgraceful and totally unprofessional, to say the least.

Several players: Holtby and Johnson in particular, looked like they were running on empty on Wednesday and needing a rest, even before ToMo's kick in the nuts. What does our intrepid leader do? selects them both to start today in key roles in central midfield and look at their levels of performance!

Despite Mowbray, we really should have had at least a point had we converted just one of the plethora of chances we had, particularly at the start of the second half.

I'm seething because it's all just so bloody predictable. For whatever reason, (in truth we all know the answer and he travels daily from Teeside), we look destined again to flatter to deceive and wallow around mid-table until season's end. Mowbray has a lot of good points but he just hasn't got that little bit extra to take us to where we all want and need to be.

Not a knee jerk decision/opinion but if we really want to progress, Mowbray needs to be replaced. He's just quite not good enough. I'm really trying to have a balanced opinion and have thoroughly enjoyed the way we have played at times this season but it's a results based business. Who gives a toss how much possession we've had, shots on target, corners etc. We lost again, undeservedly perhaps yet again (there's a pattern developing) but we still got nil points at home against one of our supposed rivals.

No doubt we'll hammer The Millers on Wednesday night but so fucking what!

Edited December 12, 2020 by darrenrover

[Paul Mellelieu]

Is there a more depressing place to come after a Rovers' defeat?  

 

I think we have made significant progress in our general play and in our overall ability, and we can only hope that the returning players will improve our performances. However we are playing catch-up with the relegated teams and some better funded outfits than us.  

 

I think TM hasn't worked out how to turn promising performances against the better teams into points.  If he does, we are looking at a good season: if not then there's a good discussion to be had.

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

I think TM hasn't worked out how to turn promising performances against the better teams into points.  If he does, we are looking at a good season: if not then there's a good discussion to be had.

What's the point in wasting the rest of this season by allowing him to remain in charge?

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

29 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

The thing is, because we hover between "one win from the play offs" (which never happens) and deep into mid table mediocrity, my opinion can waver and I will admit that, but I think asking me now that Mowbray's shelf life as manager as passed, I think we should look for a change and that Mowbray will never smash the glass ceiling and make us a top 6 team. There will always be inconsistency and there will always be an inferiority complex under him I fear.

The variances in style and formation have objectively not caused an improvement in results, even factoring in additions to the team like Kaminski and Elliott who are massive upgrades on what we had last year, we are mid table as we were at the same stage in each of the last 2 seasons with frighteningly identical points tallies. 

I feel that those expecting a sudden winning run to materialise are doing so in blind faith rather than using logic having been either wowed by a different style that as I mentioned has not improved results and/or have been suckered in by Mowbray and his constant string of hard luck stories and excuses.

Absolutely nailed it, best post on here for some time. 

[Tormund]

Does anyone think Damien Johnson would be ready to step up? 

[roversfan99]

4 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Is there a more depressing place to come after a Rovers' defeat?  

 

I think we have made significant progress in our general play and in our overall ability, and we can only hope that the returning players will improve our performances. However we are playing catch-up with the relegated teams and some better funded outfits than us.  

 

I think TM hasn't worked out how to turn promising performances against the better teams into points.  If he does, we are looking at a good season: if not then there's a good discussion to be had.

Why would you expect a Rovers forum to be anything else after a loss in a week in which we have picked up 1 point from 3 games? Its not unwarranted misery, its supporters being understandably frustrated and saddened to see their team lose.

The perfect benchmark amidst all of the rhetoric about relegated clubs, inferior resources, comparatively numerous injury woes, all excuses that carry varying levels of truth, is our performance against the last 2 seasons. For all the spiel about progress regarding subjective styles and tactics, in terms of results we havent improved at this stage on the last 2 years. 

[matt83]

9 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

 However we are playing catch-up with the relegated teams and some better funded outfits than us.  

 

And Luton if we are to believe the table. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Back to your condescending-yet-ignorant best.

Let’s have it right - there are two Irish lads in our defence and everyone is at fault but them, eh?

Lenihan has been poor today but he should have been back alongside Ayala, not Williams.

All the best managers build a solid defence and work from there. Mowbray has never addressed that in all the time he has been here. That means that no matter how many goals we score (and we score a lot) we end up midtable.

When you lose the debate, you just go ad hominem.

There are 4 players in defence Stuart, 5 if you include the keeper. I didn't single the two lads out,you just did. 

Have you ever played any actual sport yourself? You speak about players as if they are robots. You do this a lot. Others have pointed it out. It's textbook someone who has sat on their arse and never actually kicked a ball themselves. 

Anyway, we have lost a few tight games. Teams above us have conceded more. This is another one of your tropes, along with the nonsense that Mowbray doesn't give youth a chance, that for some bizzare reason you are still saying up to about 2 days ago. Comical. 

Edited December 12, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[joey_big_nose]

With the squad we have we should be at least six points higher up the table than we are. I think there's little doubt about that.

Every one of our first team players top championship sides would be interested in, maybe Gallagher and Williams aside.

Mowbray deserves credit for assembling the squad, but we should be safely in the top six with it. If he can't do it we need a to be looking at a change in Jan.

[matt83]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/18940547.mowbrays-verdict-rovers-defeat-leaders-norwich-city/

The usual rhetoric from Mowbray after a defeat. He was talking about "trusting the numbers" in the LT this morning, now its saying how he doesnt think we are far away. Thrown in the League 1 card for good measure. Suspect that he wont be questioned on being in the exact same position as in the previous 2 seasons.

Oh my god he is so annoying. Can’t believe he’s still using league one as an excuse. He is first and foremost a salesman and fair play he’s sold a slow build mantra to the masses.

I would say not so much slow build but plateaued as mid table makeweights. There’ll be a bit of a winning run now I’m sure. Who knows what the actual aims of the club are but under the current leadership a mid table championship side whom never threaten the play offs is all we’ll ever be.

[Paul Mellelieu]

9 minutes ago, matt83 said:

And Luton if we are to believe the table. 

Let's see, end of the season.  We've just played three of the top teams and not been far away.

[Paul Mellelieu]

11 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Why would you expect a Rovers forum to be anything else after a loss in a week in which we have picked up 1 point from 3 games? Its not unwarranted misery, its supporters being understandably frustrated and saddened to see their team lose.

The perfect benchmark amidst all of the rhetoric about relegated clubs, inferior resources, comparatively numerous injury woes, all excuses that carry varying levels of truth, is our performance against the last 2 seasons. For all the spiel about progress regarding subjective styles and tactics, in terms of results we havent improved at this stage on the last 2 years. 

We are a far better team than two years ago, and yes it's right to be frustrated, but we are improving and have some real talent on the pitch.  So, it's one thing to be disappointed, it's another not to note where are we getting better, who've we've just played and some of the young players we have to come back.  

 

A bit of balance is called for.  As ever.

[Ewood Ace]

5 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We've just played three of the top teams and 

taken a solitary point. 

[roversfan99]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We are a far better team than two years ago, and yes it's right to be frustrated, but we are improving and have some real talent on the pitch.  So, it's one thing to be disappointed, it's another not to note where are we getting better, who've we've just played and some of the young players we have to come back.  

 

A bit of balance is called for.  As ever.

You are basing your analysis on opinions, on subjective matters, on style, on aesthetics. The points tally does not bear out the improvement you mention in spite of some obvious upgrades in personnel.

[LDRover]

3 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

We are a far better team than two years ago, and yes it's right to be frustrated, but we are improving and have some real talent on the pitch.  So, it's one thing to be disappointed, it's another not to note where are we getting better, who've we've just played and some of the young players we have to come back.  

 

A bit of balance is called for.  As ever.

There is balance Paul. It's been stated more than once in this thread that our position now is comparable to the last 2 seasons. Any talk on style of play, better players and injuries is just garnish.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

taken a solitary point. 

Yes, that was my point Ace.  Played the top teams and we're not there yet.

[Paul Mellelieu]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

You are basing your analysis on opinions, on subjective matters, on style, on aesthetics. The points tally does not bear out the improvement you mention in spite of some obvious upgrades in personnel.

Not really.  Is the league weaker, or stronger? Did we have this amount of injuries?  Are we better prepared for the remainder of the season.  Lots of variables.  And yes, as the saying goes, football is a game of opinions.

[Ewood Ace]

6 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Yes, that was my point Ace.  Played the top teams and we're not there yet.

I wouldn't call Bristol City one of the top teams they finished below us last season. They are a good top half side who can't take the next step to the play offs.

4 minutes ago, Paul Mellelieu said:

Not really.  Is the league weaker, or stronger? Did we have this amount of injuries?  Are we better prepared for the remainder of the season.  Lots of variables.  And yes, as the saying goes, football is a game of opinions.

You can have all the variables you like but there are only two things that matter, the number of points won and the position in the table anything else is merely spin.

Edited December 12, 2020 by Ewood Ace

[Paul Mellelieu]

5 minutes ago, LDRover said:

There is balance Paul. It's been stated more than once in this thread that our position now is comparable to the last 2 seasons. Any talk on style of play, better players and injuries is just garnish.

I don't that's true.  We have a far better squad and are playing a better brand of football IMHO!! 

[Paul Mellelieu]

1 minute ago, Ewood Ace said:

I wouldn't call Bristol City one of the top teams they finished below us last season. They are like us a good top half side who can't take the next step to the play offs.

Above us now?  Top for a while?  

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Genuinely despise this disingenous nonsense, even worse when it's spouted by the manager. "But it's true" - yeah, but stripped of all context. We went down with 51 points which was frankly ridiculous and would have seen us safe almost any other season. We didn't have to sell a single player. Instead we bought the best player in League 1 and added to the squad. As a result we romped the league despite not playing very well at any point during the campaign. 

So, since we got relegated 8 years ago we've spent one solitary season in League 1 - which was a blip caused by the stupidity of our owners hiring a useless manager and waiting until February to sack him. That aside we've finished between 7th - 15th every season, barring the chaotic 12/13 season. 

To talk us down like we're Luton or Wycombe trying to find our way is insulting. It's embarrassing enough to hear it from our own fans, let alone the manager. No wonder we don't have the mentality to beat the top teams when the manager himself regards us in such a lowly fashion.

I can only repeat, we need a winner who understands and embraces what this club should be. 

There is a clip on YouTube of Warnock managing Sheffield United against Millwall at the den. Muscat got sent off for headbutting Paddy Kenny at half time and so did Kenny for something. 

Anyway, the shit housing that Warnock partakes in is a sight to behold. If anyone hasn't seen it, I recommend giving it a watch. You won't see it at Rovers anyway.

Sheffield United won 2-1 

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, Paul Mellelieu said:

Above us now?  Top for a while?  

They won't finish in the top 6. Just because they are above us it doesn't mean they are a top team otherwise that would mean that nearly half the league are top teams.