Rovers v Canaries. Sat 12th Dec 3pm

[Blue blood]

10 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Agreed,but the only way we will know that for certain is if he gets the full season, right? 

Which by then may be too late. And also I think we may know well before then too. 

Tbh I think it comes down to whether people think TM deserves a full season. Statistically - as in results and position - there doesn't seem much evidence for progress. On paper the squad and goals scored column suggest progress. Personally would go with the statistics and say time to go. 

If we are going on his previous years here for warranting the whole season I think that's very sketchy ground for keeping him due to the number of mistakes made. 

[CrouchingNunhiddenCucumber]

21 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

This kind of response/comments is why I dont try to engage with other posters to try to change people opinions. 

Mowbray has done a very good job at this club. The owners trust him. 

Mowbray wants promotion here for sure and any comments otherwise are just wrong. 

I didn't say he didn't want promotion, I said he's worked out how to play the game to ensure he gets the maximum amount of time in the job. In some ways fair play to him, he's in self preservation mode and I can't blame him. Sadly he's simply not good enough for what we now need as much as I wish he was. 

[Norbert Rassragr]

Hughes, Pearson, the Cowley brothers, Viera, Flores and Silva are all out of a job and Billic is soon to be. All are worth at least a look. Then there are other candidates actually in jobs.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

9 hours ago, Wood26 said:

If the benchmark is going to be a new manager comes in and takes us straight up, we are going to get through a lot of managers.

You Mowbray out lot really don’t see the big picture. He built this team, they love him, they love being here. You boot him out, Armstrong loyalty goes. Bennett prob gets shipped out, a huge player in our changing room. Johnson is here through his connection to Bennett. You lose big characters you lose the dressing room. Dack probably has loyalty to Mowbray, we know he wants to go, doubt prem teams want him.

Its obvious from players who stayed or left the dressing room has a strong bond, and Mowbray is big part of that, ship him out to bring in god knows who because you demand premier league football is suicide for us.

And that’s not even getting started on how venkys were pre Mowbray. What key player we sold since Mowbray got in? No one.

The Mowbray out crew, the same ones who wanted Big Sam out. How that go?

There's so many things wrong with this it's hard to know where to start. 

I bet they love being at Rovers - it's an expectation free zone from top to bottom. You can be playing like a drain ( Lenihan, Douglas etc ) and still get picked for the next game. You can go on one of our regular death spirals and absolutely nothing happens. No criticism at the club or in the press, it's as though we weren't losing 6 or 7 games on the bounce. They're all on easy street, especially with no fans in the stadium.

Has Bennett kicked a ball for us this season ? If he has I must have missed it. One of the best defenders ever to kick a ball, Paul McGrath, was known for never saying  a word on the pitch or in the changing rooms. 

 Do you really think Armstrong has loyalty to Mowbray or to Rovers ? You're deluded, wait while this summer, you'll see what loyalty looks like then. That's if he's still here in Feb. The only manager modern day players have loyalty to is their bank manager. 

For your information I was gutted when Sam left and the first thing I did was look in the paper to see how many points we needed to get to 40 because I knew we were in big trouble. This bloke has had long enough to fashion a team with a coherent way of playing that is capable of beating teams around the top of the table. We're no nearer now in that respect than we were 3 years ago.

[G Somerset Rover]

24 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Agreed,but the only way we will know that for certain is if he gets the full season, right? 

I’d wager that for the majority of those who want to give Mowbray the full season, come May when we’ve not had a sniff of the play-offs it will then be, ‘look what he had to contend with injury wise, give him til Christmas’, ‘look at the progress of our playing style, he needs more time’, ‘give him the summer window to address our defence’.

And on we go.

[47er]

1 hour ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Come on Hoochie. We have been pretty damned close to getting results against all the relegated teams but in the end their superior quality has meant we have just failed. Yes there have been some shaky performances but there are some decent teams in this league. 
 

The injury and illness situation has been horrendous and we have had to play youngsters who normally wouldn’t feature. This will stand us in good stead when some of our better players come back. 
 

There are signs that we are not that far off top 6 and there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to achieve it. 

We are 6 teams off top 6! And there's clubs below us waiting for our next slip.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

57 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

There are signs that we are not that far off top 6 and there is no reason why we shouldn't be able to achieve it. 

The reason we won't achieve it is because of the manager. That's my opinion. Mowbray is an idealist, not a pragmatist. 

Also, the signs are that absolutely nothing has changed. We'll continue on good runs and then bad runs and continue to fail when it comes to the crunch against our supposed promotion rivals. Narrowly failing to beat them is not a sign we will start to beat them any time soon. 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

5 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The reason we won't achieve it is because of the manager. That's my opinion. Mowbray is an idealist, not a pragmatist. 

Also, the signs are that absolutely nothing has changed. We'll continue on good runs and then bad runs and continue to fail when it comes to the crunch against our supposed promotion rivals. Narrowly failing to beat them is not a sign we will start to beat them any time soon. 

Just 2 games ago we were in with a chance of top 6 (if results went the right way). Just 2 defeats later we suddenly aren’t good enough. 
 

I don’t think anyone on here has said that we are one of the strongest teams in the league but as I said, the signs are there that we can still make a realistic challenge for top 6. Get our injured players back and let’s see where we get to. 

Mowbray is going nowhere this season and, if he was to, there is no guarantee that someone better would be appointed. 

 

[Ewood Ace]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Watched the highlights again. How anyone can blame the defenders for those goals yesterday is beyond me. Pukki is class for the first goal and they second is a big dirty deflection, that typically seem to go against us more than we get them. You would think for the amount of shots Armstrong has, he would get a few more deflections. It probably shows how crazy and impossible some of the shots are.

The second goal is a fantastic reaction finish from Pukki but the defending from Lenihan in the build up to it was awful and the clearance from Williams was pathetic. Also did we not score a deflected last minute winner just a few games ago?

 

58 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Agreed,but the only way we will know that for certain is if he gets the full season, right? 

Was this copied and pasted from this times last season because exactly the same argument was being has then and us doubters were proven correct as we plodded along to a mid table finish.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

6 minutes ago, Uddersfelt Blue said:

Just 2 games ago we were in with a chance of top 6 (if results went the right way). Just 2 defeats later we suddenly aren’t good enough. 
 

I don’t think anyone on here has said that we are one of the strongest teams in the league but as I said, the signs are there that we can still make a realistic challenge for top 6. Get our injured players back and let’s see where we get to. 

Mowbray is going nowhere this season and, if he was to, there is no guarantee that someone better would be appointed. 

 

You're missing the point. As soon as we play teams in and around the top 6 we fail massively. We can't play PNE, Cov, Wycombe etc every week. In that regard nothing has changed. 

I agree with your last sentence, except to say we don't know what his remit is. If he has been told it's Top 6 or bust this season then he will get sacked if we get to the end of Jan (for example) and he's miles off the pace. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, danger19_80 said:

Different opinions and all that but I watched them and couldn't believe how anyone wouldn't blame them! Why was Gallagher left to mark Pukki for the first and, whilst the second took a lucky deflection, the whole passage of play in the lead up to it was a shambles starting with Williams' weak attempt at a block on the half way line, Lenhian's weak attempt at a tackle on the edge of the box, Williams' poor clearance etc etc.

Was Gallagher marking him though or did Pukki just spin out to that position with his movement? It all happened very quickly and it's easy to try and lay blame. 

Missed chances are killing us as much as poor defending imo. Not just missing them, but the fact it kills our momentum. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

Which by then may be too late. And also I think we may know well before then too. 

Tbh I think it comes down to whether people think TM deserves a full season. Statistically - as in results and position - there doesn't seem much evidence for progress. On paper the squad and goals scored column suggest progress. Personally would go with the statistics and say time to go. 

If we are going on his previous years here for warranting the whole season I think that's very sketchy ground for keeping him due to the number of mistakes made. 

It's a tricky one. I mean we can't say he has the best squad this year since being relegated, but then not give him the full season. 

Look ,he annoys me at times too, I just am so fearful of who they would replace him with. At best it would be Damien Johnson I reckon. I would be very happy to be proved wrong. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Was Gallagher marking him though or did Pukki just spin out to that position with his movement? It all happened very quickly and it's easy to try and lay blame. 

Missed chances are killing us as much as poor defending imo. Not just missing them, but the fact it kills our momentum. 

That's what can happen when you have a forward marking a forward.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

I’d wager that for the majority of those who want to give Mowbray the full season, come May when we’ve not had a sniff of the play-offs it will then be, ‘look what he had to contend with injury wise, give him til Christmas’, ‘look at the progress of our playing style, he needs more time’, ‘give him the summer window to address our defence’.

And on we go.

I certainly wouldn't say that, but it does kind of depend on where we finish etc. 7th on goal difference is different than 14th.

To be honest though,it's play offs or nothing for me this season with regards Mowbrays time here. It's debatable whether we are stagnating now, but another year would more than likely go that way. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

31 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The second goal is a fantastic reaction finish from Pukki but the defending from Lenihan in the build up to it was awful and the clearance from Williams was pathetic. Also did we not score a deflected last minute winner just a few games ago?

 

Was this copied and pasted from this times last season because exactly the same argument was being has then and us doubters were proven correct as we plodded along to a mid table finish.

Against Millwall,ya, but for the amount of shots Armstrong is taking you would think it would happen more. 

No,I didn't copy and paste it. I take each season on its merits. Listen I have doubts too, but I think it's fair enough to give him this season,with this squad. No play offs and no excuse will cut it. 

The next appointment has to be the right one. That worries me, a lot. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

31 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's a tricky one. I mean we can't say he has the best squad this year since being relegated, but then not give him the full season. 

Look ,he annoys me at times too, I just am so fearful of who they would replace him with. At best it would be Damien Johnson I reckon. I would be very happy to be proved wrong. 

As far as I can see Johnno has had zero impact on first team performances. As a result he's just gone down a big snake in the Ewood Park game of snakes and ladders. Maybe that was Mowbray's plan all along ?

Edited December 13, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

That's what can happen when you have a forward marking a forward.

Do we use zonal or man marking? It's hard to tell if Gallagher was marking him. I though Gallagher was on the front post. 

It should have been Williams or Lenihan picking him up. He's a class striker at this level though. He will pass Armstrong before the season is out, no doubt. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I certainly wouldn't say that, but it does kind of depend on where we finish etc. 7th on goal difference is different than 14th.

To be honest though,it's play offs or nothing for me this season with regards Mowbrays time here. It's debatable whether we are stagnating now, but another year would more than likely go that way. 

In what respect does it matter where we finish between 7th or 14th ? As far as I can see there's no money in it and I can't see Amstrong or Nyambe thinking " Well I was going to leave when we were 10th in the league but now we've finished 7th I think I'll stay ".

[islander200]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do we use zonal or man marking? It's hard to tell if Gallagher was marking him. I though Gallagher was on the front post. 

It should have been Williams or Lenihan picking him up. He's a class striker at this level though. He will pass Armstrong before the season is out, no doubt. 

Man marking according to Bennett on ifollow, he critized Norwich's use of Zonal marking on ifollow

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

As far as I can see Johnno has had zero impact on first team performances. As a result he's just gone down a big snake in the Ewood Park game of snakes and ladders. that was Mowbray's plan all along ?

Hard to tell really. He seems to do a little tnof stuff with video analysis and training.

No,I don't think that was Mowbrays plan to be honest. 

I think some treat Mowbray as far more of a Michavallian character/evil genius than is in anyway realistic. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do we use zonal or man marking? It's hard to tell if Gallagher was marking him. I though Gallagher was on the front post. 

It should have been Williams or Lenihan picking him up. He's a class striker at this level though. He will pass Armstrong before the season is out, no doubt. 

Even as 15 year old kid I knew you had your best markers on the opposition danger men. Most forwards look at marking up as something slightly beneath them.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In what respect does it matter where we finish between 7th or 14th ? As far as I can see there's no money in it and I can't see Amstrong or Nyambe thinking " Well I was going to leave when we were 10th in the league but now we've finished 7th I think I'll stay ".

It would be progress to miss out on the play offs by goal difference. Heartbreaking and still not good enough imo, but it's certainly different than finishing 14th. 

[islander200]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

As far as I can see Johnno has had zero impact on first team performances. As a result he's just gone down a big snake in the Ewood Park game of snakes and ladders. that was Mowbray's plan all along ?

Johnson has said he has no interest in becoming a senior team manager.

And come on Mowbray has plenty of faults as a manager but that last statement by you is just nonsense and questions his integrity, you are basing that off nothing 

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's a tricky one. I mean we can't say he has the best squad this year since being relegated, but then not give him the full season. 

Hmm would say perhaps that's the reason to get rid. If he can't get this lot close then he never will. 

7 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Look ,he annoys me at times too, I just am so fearful of who they would replace him with. At best it would be Damien Johnson I reckon. I would be very happy to be proved wrong. 

We don't agree much but that is a fear I definitely share. The problem is our recruitment policy for a manager is pretty horrific seemingly coming from one agency. It is a heck of a risk. 

My counter is that a) I feel with increasing certainly TM won't get us promoted, thereby lowering the risk of a gamble. And b) like Bowyer TM seems to have run his course, can't get the best out of what he has and will therefore struggle as cutbacks are made. The more I think on it, it really seems like just before the season Bowyer was sacked with us underachieving with a talented squad. IF the new man could be brought in before the squad starts getting dismantled it might be enough to break the cycle and push us to promotion or at least playoffs. Fairly confident within a year there will be no Nayambe, Elliott and Armstrong so this season imo is our last chance to stop history repeating itself. It's a risk no doubt but it's a risk Vs the certainty of stagnation under TM. 

 

 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It would be progress to miss out on the play offs by goal difference. Heartbreaking and still not good enough imo, but it's certainly different than finishing 14th. 

It looks good on paper but in concrete terms it's pretty meaningless. Especially if 3 or 4 off your better players bail out in summer.