Rovers v Rotherham Utd. (h) Wed. 16th Dec. 7.45pm

[Mashed Potatoes]

8 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

It wasn't just the poor football and poor performance - the players didn't look up for it and wandered around for 70 minutes as though they couldn't care less. The first half was as devoid of passion as I've seen from Rovers in many years. Tony has to take the blame - not only did he pick the wrong team, they went into the match in the wrong frame of mind. 

Your idea of the right team was to take off the player who had the assist for our first goal and then scored the winner.

[darrenrover]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

A win is a win however it's achieved and I would certainly take another twenty scabby, ugly wins between now and May. Digging a bit deeper there wasn't one player who played well in my view, the tempo was weak, passing poor and movement pretty non existent. It's games like this were Mowbray really annoys me with his awful body language and gesticulations. From what I saw he was sat down with his shoulders hunched pretty much offering nothing most of the time. His negativity was apparent so the players must feel that. A good manager can really earn his corn in these games by encouraging, cajoling and offering advice to the players. 

I saw a post earlier where somebody wrote that we have a top six team. Hard to disagree really but we have to countenance that with the fact we have a mid table manager. And that is the big problem.

An accurate summation Tony, I edited your post ever so slightly, I hope you don't mind.

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

8 minutes ago, arbitro said:

A win is a win however it's achieved and I would certainly take another twenty scabby, ugly wins between now and May. Digging a bit deeper there wasn't one player who played well in my view, the tempo was weak, passing poor and movement pretty non existent. It's games like this were Mowbray really annoys me with his awful body language and gesticulations. From what I saw he was sat down with his shoulders hunched pretty much offering nothing most of the time. His negativity was apparent so the players must feel that. A good manager can really earn his corn in these games by encouraging, cajoling and offering advice to the players. 

I saw a post earlier where somebody wrote that we have a top six team. Hard to disagree really but we have to countenance that with the fact we have a mid table manager. And that is a big problem.

The manager is certainly an issue, he doesn't inspire. What he has done is brought in match-winners - Dack, Elliott and Arma (possibly BB)  can all win matches on their own. The rest of the squad I'm not sure about. We seem to have a rag-tag of a midfield with lots of options but nobody capable of stringing more than a couple of good performances together. The defence has glaring weaknesses too. That's possibly why we struggle against the better teams who can expose those weaknesses more than, say, Rotherham with their collection of League 1 journeymen. 

[JBiz]

Have to agree @arbitro his body language at times is frustrating to see, he is supposed to be “in control” and in no sport, employment, game - literally anything you need a team for, should the leader/manager be flailing around with his head in his hands, staring at the floor.

I think last night might’ve been as frustrating for him as it was for all of us but you’ve got to be professional. Would’ve loved to see his reaction at full time tbh.

There is the thing though, we’ve criticised managers in the past for seemingly not giving a shit!

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

24 minutes ago, arbitro said:

A win is a win however it's achieved and I would certainly take another twenty scabby, ugly wins between now and May. Digging a bit deeper there wasn't one player who played well in my view, the tempo was weak, passing poor and movement pretty non existent. It's games like this were Mowbray really annoys me with his awful body language and gesticulations. From what I saw he was sat down with his shoulders hunched pretty much offering nothing most of the time. His negativity was apparent so the players must feel that. A good manager can really earn his corn in these games by encouraging, cajoling and offering advice to the players. 

I saw a post earlier where somebody wrote that we have a top six team. Hard to disagree really but we have to countenance that with the fact we have a mid table manager. And that is a big problem.

I think issues like how Mowbray reacts on the sidelines or enthusiastic he is in pre match interviews is completely overblown. There are far, far bigger issues.

Last night quietly demonstrated our strength in depth. Bringing Holtby, Downing and Trybull off the bench. I can’t imagine many sides in this division can do that. The 5-sub rule might start to really benefit us over Christmas.

Concerned by Douglas. Offering nothing more than Bell at present.

[arbitro]

10 minutes ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The manager is certainly an issue, he doesn't inspire. What he has done is brought in match-winners - Dack, Elliott and Arma (possibly BB)  can all win matches on their own. The rest of the squad I'm not sure about. We seem to have a rag-tag of a midfield with lots of options but nobody capable of stringing more than a couple of good performances together. The defence has glaring weaknesses too. That's possibly why we struggle against the better teams who can expose those weaknesses more than, say, Rotherham with their collection of League 1 journeymen. 

Referring to the top six quote I meant when everybody is fit. I think a good manager could squeeze enough out of the squad to get us into the top six. 

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

I think issues like how Mowbray reacts on the sidelines or enthusiastic he is in pre match interviews is completely overblown. There are far, far bigger issues.

Last night quietly demonstrated our strength in depth. Bringing Holtby, Downing and Trybull off the bench. I can’t imagine many sides in this division can do that. The 5-sub rule might start to really benefit us over Christmas.

Concerned by Douglas. Offering nothing more than Bell at present.

What are the bigger issues? He is the manager, figure head, the face of the club to the outside world. At times last night he looked like he was on death row, completely non inspirational. 

[gumboots]

I know this is probably covered elsewhere but I didn't find it trawling through. Why was there so much time added on?

[Sparks Rover]

12 minutes ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

Concerned by Douglas. Offering nothing more than Bell at present.

He is offering less than Bell.  I would send him back to Leeds today...just punts aimless balls because he has no strength to hold onto the  ball.  Looks weak and any good opposition scout will see that.

Bell looked twice the player when he came on, threatening their full back in a way that Douglas never did.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Fair play to Armstrong ,an assist and a goal whatever way ya look at it. For the first Eliott still had a lot to do and the. Winning goal was comical in how it literally just hit Armstrong.

My reaction to the last goal was I just laughed. I've never witnessed a less deserved victory. If we lost that 4-1, we could have had no complaints 

Well, at least things can only get better 

Edited December 17, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[benhben]

20 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

He is offering less than Bell.  I would send him back to Leeds today...just punts aimless balls because he has no strength to hold onto the  ball.  Looks weak and any good opposition scout will see that.

Bell looked twice the player when he came on, threatening their full back in a way that Douglas never did.

The biggest concern to me is how weak and fragile he looks. Every winger hes faces troubles him for pace, whilst in any 50-50 duels he is usually second best. I'm amazed he came with a decent reputation. Physically looks miles off....especially from the high tempo game Leeds used to play. Probably why hes deemed surplus to requirements.

Whilst Bell is technically awful at least he can run and defend 1 on 1s. 

Agree if we can do it we should terminate the loan in January and look for another loan deal for a left back. No point in toiling with crap players if they are only loans. 

Edited December 17, 2020 by benhben

[Bigdoggsteel]

The Wolves team Douglas excelled on was arguably the best Championship team of the last 20 years. They had Doherty on the other side, not the quickest either. They played the two of them very high and they were really just there to get the ball into the box. I suppose they weren't under the cosh too much either.

Edited December 17, 2020 by Bigdoggsteel

[Mashed Potatoes]

25 minutes ago, gumboots said:

I know this is probably covered elsewhere but I didn't find it trawling through. Why was there so much time added on?

You would normally get 3 minutes for the substitutions that were made plus there was quite a long stoppage for an injury to a Rotherham player and a bit of time wasting.

On another topic relating to time I have never seen players(ours) allowed to take so long over throw ins.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, Wood26 said:

So is Dack, that Mowbray fault?

He's the manager. The buck should stop at his desk. If it doesn't and decisions are being made without his approval he shouldn't be staying in the job. I'd ask - " What do you think he's done to encourage Nyambe to stay ? "

He looks a quiet lad who doesn't make a fuss. His good nature has been taken advantage of in my opinion.

One of the few players at the club that gives 100% effort every game and we'll be letting him go - crazy.

 

[A Northern Horde...]

If we lose on Saturday last night counts for nothing....the Mowbray Magic Roundabout.

Just can't help a feeling of apathy as we scrape past the mighty Millers.

We bumble and stumble on.

Edited December 17, 2020 by A Northern Horde...

[roversfan99]

7 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

I can't agree with Bell being worse than Douglas. I feel a bit harsh judging him so quickly but he is so far off the pace. He is truly awful. Can't tackle, can't head, no pace, no strength, can't progress us up the pitch, touch actually looks very poor. I'd genuinely be looking at other left back options on loan and look to terminate. Its rare I've seen a player so far out his depth which is even more perplexing considering his reputation. 

Don't get my wrong, Bell isn't great. No final delivery, gets caught positionally sometimes and when he has a stinker. It really is a stinker. But what he does have is the engine to get up and down and play Mowbrays system. Somebody else said it too. As bad as Bell has been at times. I don't think he has ever been as poor as Douglas was tonight (or some of his other appearances for us for that matter)

I agree that Douglas has been a massive dissapointment for us. We have hopefully put it down to rust but if you look at it, he is 31 on the back of not much football and plenty of injuries, maybe it is catching up with him. He was outstanding for Wolves but he wasnt playing as a left back for them and he was out more than in for Leeds who were also far better tactically than we are under Bielsa. So yes he has had 2 promotions, one of which was when he was in his prime and playing a totally different position and the other he was a bit part player.

I just feel that Bell's incompetence has perhaps been somewhat forgotten. I have seen him have games as bad or even worse in a Rovers shirt many times. When he came on, he was beaten really easily a couple of times (hes not a good one on one defender) and technically he is far less secure than Douglas, so often the ball will come to him and he will take ages to get it under control or fail to keep the ball in play/possession.

Based on both players performances in a Rovers shirt so far I dont think there is a good left back between them and it looks by far our weakest position at the moment. It is a huge worry and a position Mowbray hasnt put much stock in. 

[Uddersfelt Blue]

7 minutes ago, A Northern Horde... said:

If we lose on Saturday last night counts for nothing....the Mowbray Magic Roundabout.

We Bumble on.

7 minutes ago, A Northern Horde... said:

If we lose on Saturday last night counts for nothing....the Mowbray Magic Roundabout.

We Bumble on.

Sometimes I think that some fans actually want us to lose. 

OK, we didn’t play well last night but performances this season have generally been good. Let’s have one of them on Saturday 
 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

7 hours ago, Wood26 said:

And Dack is a top player, which I think people forget. Remember when he got injured, our other 2 goal scorers were Mulgrew (loaned out) and Graham (last legs). Where were goals coming from?

Dack coming back is like having a Toney or a Pukki.

I think some have forgotten how good he is, and we have him in just a couple weeks.

What you mean is 12 months ago Dack was a top player. The chances of a player being being out for over a year and coming back to the same level of ability is roughly 50/50. Then we have the issue of  trying to incorporate his re-habilitation into the team when we're playing like we are at present.

I'm not optimistic regarding Dack, certainly in the immediate future. Travis, I'm more optimistic with but his injury might have given him pause for thought regarding getting stuck in as he used to.

[USABlue]

11 hours ago, iSeeRed said:

Hopefully Mowbray, the genius bringer of victories, will start Dolan over Gallagher next game!

No, he won't, he did not waste.5.million on Dolan.  

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What you mean is 12 months ago Dack was a top player. The chances of a player being being out for over a year and coming back to the same level of ability is roughly 50/50. Then we have the issue of  trying to incorporate his re-habilitation into the team when we're playing like we are at present.

I'm not optimistic regarding Dack, certainly in the immediate future. Travis, I'm more optimistic with but his injury might have given him pause for thought regarding getting stuck in as he used to.

The best of Dack seemed to come when he was able to link up with Graham.

Thats gone now so what comes next is anybodies guess.

[Exiled_Rover]

1 hour ago, Hoochie Bloochie Mama said:

The manager is certainly an issue, he doesn't inspire. What he has done is brought in match-winners - Dack, Elliott and Arma (possibly BB)  can all win matches on their own. The rest of the squad I'm not sure about. We seem to have a rag-tag of a midfield with lots of options but nobody capable of stringing more than a couple of good performances together. The defence has glaring weaknesses too. That's possibly why we struggle against the better teams who can expose those weaknesses more than, say, Rotherham with their collection of League 1 journeymen. 

Honestly the problem is the lack of rotation.

We're playing 3 games every 7 days. Elliot, Armstrong and Gallagher (previously Brereton) were starting upfront every week. They're looking jaded atm.

In midfield he prefers Rothwell, Johnson and Holtby. It's taken a massive dip in form to give Holtby a rest. Johnson is clearly knackered atm, but he continues to trot him out there. It's no coincidence we looked much better last night when Johnson was subbed.

The solution is not playing Johnson on a Saturday and then midweek - Trybull is perfectly capable of playing that role. Buckley should be Holtby's understudy and Davenport needs significantly more game time. Upfront he needs to weave in Dolan, Chapman, Dack and JRC - no idea how far the last two are from fitness.

[chaddyrovers]

Delighted with the win and 3 points. 

Didnt see most of the game but we didnt look good at all in the last 20 mins. 

Good to get win even tho performance wasnt good enough

[Hoochie Bloochie Mama]

2 minutes ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Honestly the problem is the lack of rotation.

We're playing 3 games every 7 days. Elliot, Armstrong and Gallagher (previously Brereton) were starting upfront every week. They're looking jaded atm.

In midfield he prefers Rothwell, Johnson and Holtby. It's taken a massive dip in form to give Holtby a rest. Johnson is clearly knackered atm, but he continues to trot him out there. It's no coincidence we looked much better last night when Johnson was subbed.

The solution is not playing Johnson on a Saturday and then midweek - Trybull is perfectly capable of playing that role. Buckley should be Holtby's understudy and Davenport needs significantly more game time. Upfront he needs to weave in Dolan, Chapman, Dack and JRC - no idea how far the last two are from fitness.

Fair points. Dack early Jan I think, JRC early Feb. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Exiled_Rover said:

Honestly the problem is the lack of rotation.

We're playing 3 games every 7 days. Elliot, Armstrong and Gallagher (previously Brereton) were starting upfront every week. They're looking jaded atm.

In midfield he prefers Rothwell, Johnson and Holtby. It's taken a massive dip in form to give Holtby a rest. Johnson is clearly knackered atm, but he continues to trot him out there. It's no coincidence we looked much better last night when Johnson was subbed.

The solution is not playing Johnson on a Saturday and then midweek - Trybull is perfectly capable of playing that role. Buckley should be Holtby's understudy and Davenport needs significantly more game time. Upfront he needs to weave in Dolan, Chapman, Dack and JRC - no idea how far the last two are from fitness.

Some would say its over rotation! 

I don't think, of any players, the front 3 look jaded. I don't think we can leave AA and Eliott out under any circumstances at the moment. Dolan should have gotten more time in place of Gallagher. WE need BB back. Gallagher has about 10% of BBs technical ability 

[Exiled_Rover]

8 hours ago, Silas said:

Last 2 weeks, considering score on 80 mins, points I wouldn't have expected us to accumulate since the darkness descended:

Millwall 2pts

Brentford 1pt

Rotherham 2pts

 

Fair play to the team for pulling them put the bag. 5 bonus pts in my view. Sounds like a good haul. But, somehow, we're now 9 pts from automatic. A realistic target not so long ago.

Potentially 2 wins from 3rd place, fair enough, but as elated as I am with a last second winner, just can't shake that feeling that this team doesn't have it in them to go the distance and compete back end of the season. 

Maybe the return of some of our "top" players in Dack and Trav will prove me wrong.  

The top two are starting to pull away. Automatic promotion is going to be a pipe dream very soon.

We're just not consistent enough. Yes Mowbray has assembled this squad, but he doesn't get the most out of it. I'm sure most managers in the league look at our squad with envy.